Guest guest Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 " If you have the courage to touch life for the first time, you will never know what hit you. Everything man has thought, felt and experienced is gone, and nothing is put in its place. " -- U.G. Krishnamurti Questioner: You say that whatever you see is yourself. You also admit that you see the world as we see it. Here is today's newspaper with all the horrors going on. Since the world is yourself, how can you explain such misbehaviour? Nisargadatta Maharaj: Which world do you have in mind? Questioner: Our common world, in which we live. Nisargadatta: Are you sure we live in the same world? I do not mean nature, the sea and the land, plants and animals. They are not the problem, nor the endless space, the infinite time, the inexhaustible power. Do not be misled by my eating and smoking, reading and talking. My mind is not here, my life is not here. Your world, of desires and their fulfilments, of fears and their escapes, is definitely not my world. I do not even perceive it, except through what you tell me about it. It is your private dream world and my only reaction to it is to ask you to stop dreaming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > " If you have the courage to touch life for the first time, you will never know what hit you. Everything man has thought, felt and experienced is gone, and nothing is put in its place. " -- U.G. Krishnamurti > > Questioner: You say that whatever you see is yourself. You also admit that you see the world as we see it. Here is today's newspaper with all the horrors going on. Since the world is yourself, how can you explain such misbehaviour? > > Nisargadatta Maharaj: Which world do you have in mind? > > Questioner: Our common world, in which we live. > > Nisargadatta: Are you sure we live in the same world? I do not mean nature, the sea and the land, plants and animals. They are not the problem, nor the endless space, the infinite time, the inexhaustible power. Do not be misled by my eating and smoking, reading and talking. My mind is not here, my life is not here. Your world, of desires and their fulfilments, of fears and their escapes, is definitely not my world. I do not even perceive it, except through what you tell me about it. It is your private dream world and my only reaction to it is to ask you to stop dreaming. > there is no " common world " existing, yes there are also no common dreams existing what is common, is of no worlds at all Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > > there is no " common world " existing, yes > > there are also no common dreams existing It doesn't seem so, yet whether there are or not is actually irrelevant. The " dream, here, as the reader " is the only dream that will ever appear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > there is no " common world " existing, yes > > > > there are also no common dreams existing > > It doesn't seem so, yet whether there are or not is actually irrelevant. The " dream, here, as the reader " is the only dream that will ever appear. > it is you who posted the words of Nis. , telling that there are no common worlds..... i agreed with such view .... are you posting then " irrelvant " words?.... why? ..... Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > there is no " common world " existing, yes > > > > > > there are also no common dreams existing > > > > It doesn't seem so, yet whether there are or not is actually irrelevant. The " dream, here, as the reader " is the only dream that will ever appear. > > > > > it is you who posted the words of Nis. , telling that there are no common worlds..... > > i agreed with such view > > ... > > are you posting then " irrelvant " words?.... > why? > > .... > > > > Marc Because it so happens words arise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " fewtch " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > there is no " common world " existing, yes > > > > > > > > there are also no common dreams existing > > > > > > It doesn't seem so, yet whether there are or not is actually irrelevant. The " dream, here, as the reader " is the only dream that will ever appear. > > > > > > > > > it is you who posted the words of Nis. , telling that there are no common worlds..... > > > > i agreed with such view > > > > ... > > > > are you posting then " irrelvant " words?.... > > why? > > > > .... > > > > > > > > Marc > > Because it so happens words arise. through your brain?... or not? LOL but ok, i'm sorry for you....if " it so happens words arise " Marc Ps: greetings to all this dual/triple/etc identities in here.....lol > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > > Because it so happens words arise. > > > through your brain?... > or not? > > LOL I really don't know. One is told " the brain is the seat of thought " , blah, blah. One is also told " Jesus loves you, because the Bible says so " . Why believe one, and not the other? Nothing is known here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > " If you have the courage to touch life for the first time, you will never know what hit you. Everything man has thought, felt and experienced is gone, and nothing is put in its place. " -- U.G. Krishnamurti > > Questioner: You say that whatever you see is yourself. You also admit that you see the world as we see it. Here is today's newspaper with all the horrors going on. Since the world is yourself, how can you explain such misbehaviour? > > Nisargadatta Maharaj: Which world do you have in mind? > > Questioner: Our common world, in which we live. > > Nisargadatta: Are you sure we live in the same world? I do not mean nature, the sea and the land, plants and animals. They are not the problem, nor the endless space, the infinite time, the inexhaustible power. Do not be misled by my eating and smoking, reading and talking. My mind is not here, my life is not here. Your world, of desires and their fulfilments, of fears and their escapes, is definitely not my world. I do not even perceive it, except through what you tell me about it. It is your private dream world and my only reaction to it is to ask you to stop dreaming. The fact is, the person he speaks to is a dream character. Asking that character to stop dreaming is irrelevant. The " dream " is a metaphor. Another metaphor is " splitting, projecting, attacking, defending. " The person he's addressing is constructed through splitting and projecting. It's useless to ask this person to stop the splitting and projecting. The dream can only stop nonvolitionally, when it is time to stop. There isn't any human control over starting it or stopping it. I guess that would make gurus, teachings, practices, mighty ... irrelevant, no? All of that stuff is just as much a by-product of dreaming as anything else. A person claiming not to live in the dream " becomes " a dream character simply due to appearing to " another. " So, regardless of the claim, it just becomes a case of a dream character asking another dream character to stop the dream. - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > " If you have the courage to touch life for the first time, you will never know what hit you. Everything man has thought, felt and experienced is gone, and nothing is put in its place. " -- U.G. Krishnamurti > > > > Questioner: You say that whatever you see is yourself. You also admit that you see the world as we see it. Here is today's newspaper with all the horrors going on. Since the world is yourself, how can you explain such misbehaviour? > > > > Nisargadatta Maharaj: Which world do you have in mind? > > > > Questioner: Our common world, in which we live. > > > > Nisargadatta: Are you sure we live in the same world? I do not mean nature, the sea and the land, plants and animals. They are not the problem, nor the endless space, the infinite time, the inexhaustible power. Do not be misled by my eating and smoking, reading and talking. My mind is not here, my life is not here. Your world, of desires and their fulfilments, of fears and their escapes, is definitely not my world. I do not even perceive it, except through what you tell me about it. It is your private dream world and my only reaction to it is to ask you to stop dreaming. > > > The fact is, the person he speaks to is a dream character. Asking that character to stop dreaming is irrelevant. > > The " dream " is a metaphor. Another metaphor is " splitting, projecting, attacking, defending. " > > The person he's addressing is constructed through splitting and projecting. It's useless to ask this person to stop the splitting and projecting. > > The dream can only stop nonvolitionally, when it is time to stop. > > There isn't any human control over starting it or stopping it. > > I guess that would make gurus, teachings, practices, mighty ... irrelevant, no? > > All of that stuff is just as much a by-product of dreaming as anything else. > > A person claiming not to live in the dream " becomes " a dream character simply due to appearing to " another. " > > So, regardless of the claim, it just becomes a case of a dream character asking another dream character to stop the dream. > > > > - D - True. Of course, he died in 1981... it's certain he's not d, and reading ;-). To his credit, he said something to the effect of " until concepts are transcended, all these cock-and-bull stories are provided, all these concepts " . And, " it's all entertainment to pass the time " , or words to that effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > Because it so happens words arise. > > > > > > through your brain?... > > or not? > > > > LOL > > I really don't know. > > One is told " the brain is the seat of thought " , blah, blah. > > One is also told " Jesus loves you, because the Bible says so " . > > Why believe one, and not the other? > > Nothing is known here. Yes. Use the metaphor of a bubble. Words, brains, bodies, thoughts, feelings, experiences appear inside the bubble. One is outside the bubble, and seeing appearances come and go inside the bubble, although the bubble doesn't exist outside of one's being. Nis. says things like this, like the quote just posted, or like " for you, you arise in the world. for me, the world arises within me. " Outside the bubble, or beyond the confines of the bubble, if you like, or beyond the definitions of bubble-land, is unknown in bubble-land terms. It is unknown, not perceived, not structured, not cognized, not formed. Therefore, typically awareness is construed as having a position inside the bubble, because it is assumed to exist in relation to the known. But it does not have such position. Such position is assumption only, attempt only - can never be established, regardless of thousands of years of attempt. Seeing this, reverses the picture formed in bubble-land. The notion of being a particular brain, as opposed to being something else in the bubble, has no attraction. One understands one's life is not in a location inside the bubble. Explaining how words arise inside the bubble, and whether this brain or that brain is responsible, might seem important for a bubble-entity. And that's okay, that's common-sense day-to-day stuff for a bubble-being. But for one who is the entirety of the bubble, and beyond ... How would it be a concern to explain the causality of bubble events, that simply arise as they arise. It is all causeless. All of nothing. There is not this being and that being. Only one. None. And it's funny to talk about. Funny to hear about, too. If one speaks about being beyond the bubble, the bubble-beings want to bring " you " down to size. They insist you are a " you " apart from a " them. " Particularly the " enlightened " bubble-beings. Certainly " enlightenment " is an odious concept. As is " liberation. " These ideas just become elegant means for further distortions and delusions in bubble-land. -- D -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Certainly " enlightenment " is an odious concept. As is " liberation. " > These ideas just become elegant means for further distortions and > delusions in bubble-land. > > > -- D -- I don't see anything inherently wrong with the concepts of enlightenment, or liberation. Depends on where/when they're being used, as does all concepts (e.g. the concept of " fucking " may odious when spoken in a church, but not in a tavern). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 - Tim G. Nisargadatta Friday, September 18, 2009 8:39 PM Re: today's Nisargadatta (with U.G.) Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Certainly " enlightenment " is an odious concept. As is " liberation. " > > These ideas just become elegant means for further distortions and > delusions in bubble-land. > > > -- D -- I don't see anything inherently wrong with the concepts of enlightenment, or liberation. Depends on where/when they're being used, as does all concepts (e.g. the concept of " fucking " may odious when spoken in a church, but not in a tavern). -t- Yes and no - as with everything. Indeed enlightenment and liberation became the ridiculous ground for most organized religions in the east (and west). In the other hand can also be understood as light all over the place... -geo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > If one speaks about being beyond the bubble, the bubble-beings want > to bring " you " down to size. They insist you are a " you " apart from > a " them. " Particularly the " enlightened " bubble-beings. The 'outside' of the bubble is much closer in than its inside ;-). Is it any surprise, then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 - Tim G. Nisargadatta Friday, September 18, 2009 9:29 PM Re: today's Nisargadatta (with U.G.) Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > If one speaks about being beyond the bubble, the bubble-beings want > to bring " you " down to size. They insist you are a " you " apart from > a > " them. " Particularly the " enlightened " bubble-beings. The 'outside' of the bubble is much closer in than its inside ;-). Is it any surprise, then? -t- They are exactly equally either inside or outside. How could anything be " more " inside then something else?? -geo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Tim G. > Nisargadatta > Friday, September 18, 2009 9:29 PM > Re: today's Nisargadatta (with U.G.) > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > If one speaks about being beyond the bubble, the bubble-beings want > > to bring " you " down to size. They insist you are a " you " apart from > a > > " them. " Particularly the " enlightened " bubble-beings. > > The 'outside' of the bubble is much closer in than its inside ;-). > > Is it any surprise, then? > -t- > > They are exactly equally either inside or outside. How could anything be > " more " inside then something else?? > -geo- The inside of the bubble is outside. The outside of the bubble is inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > " If you have the courage to touch life for the first time, you will never know what hit you. Everything man has thought, felt and experienced is gone, and nothing is put in its place. " -- U.G. Krishnamurti > > > > Questioner: You say that whatever you see is yourself. You also admit that you see the world as we see it. Here is today's newspaper with all the horrors going on. Since the world is yourself, how can you explain such misbehaviour? > > > > Nisargadatta Maharaj: Which world do you have in mind? > > > > Questioner: Our common world, in which we live. > > > > Nisargadatta: Are you sure we live in the same world? I do not mean nature, the sea and the land, plants and animals. They are not the problem, nor the endless space, the infinite time, the inexhaustible power. Do not be misled by my eating and smoking, reading and talking. My mind is not here, my life is not here. Your world, of desires and their fulfilments, of fears and their escapes, is definitely not my world. I do not even perceive it, except through what you tell me about it. It is your private dream world and my only reaction to it is to ask you to stop dreaming. > > > The fact is, the person he speaks to is a dream character. Asking that character to stop dreaming is irrelevant. > > The " dream " is a metaphor. Another metaphor is " splitting, projecting, attacking, defending. " > > The person he's addressing is constructed through splitting and projecting. It's useless to ask this person to stop the splitting and projecting. > > The dream can only stop nonvolitionally, when it is time to stop. > > There isn't any human control over starting it or stopping it. > > I guess that would make gurus, teachings, practices, mighty ... irrelevant, no? > > All of that stuff is just as much a by-product of dreaming as anything else. > > A person claiming not to live in the dream " becomes " a dream character simply due to appearing to " another. " > > So, regardless of the claim, it just becomes a case of a dream character asking another dream character to stop the dream. > > > > - D - > what exactly is this your claim about?.... Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > " If you have the courage to touch life for the first time, you will never know what hit you. Everything man has thought, felt and experienced is gone, and nothing is put in its place. " -- U.G. Krishnamurti > > > > > > Questioner: You say that whatever you see is yourself. You also admit that you see the world as we see it. Here is today's newspaper with all the horrors going on. Since the world is yourself, how can you explain such misbehaviour? > > > > > > Nisargadatta Maharaj: Which world do you have in mind? > > > > > > Questioner: Our common world, in which we live. > > > > > > Nisargadatta: Are you sure we live in the same world? I do not mean nature, the sea and the land, plants and animals. They are not the problem, nor the endless space, the infinite time, the inexhaustible power. Do not be misled by my eating and smoking, reading and talking. My mind is not here, my life is not here. Your world, of desires and their fulfilments, of fears and their escapes, is definitely not my world. I do not even perceive it, except through what you tell me about it. It is your private dream world and my only reaction to it is to ask you to stop dreaming. > > > > > > The fact is, the person he speaks to is a dream character. Asking that character to stop dreaming is irrelevant. > > > > The " dream " is a metaphor. Another metaphor is " splitting, projecting, attacking, defending. " > > > > The person he's addressing is constructed through splitting and projecting. It's useless to ask this person to stop the splitting and projecting. > > > > The dream can only stop nonvolitionally, when it is time to stop. > > > > There isn't any human control over starting it or stopping it. > > > > I guess that would make gurus, teachings, practices, mighty ... irrelevant, no? > > > > All of that stuff is just as much a by-product of dreaming as anything else. > > > > A person claiming not to live in the dream " becomes " a dream character simply due to appearing to " another. " > > > > So, regardless of the claim, it just becomes a case of a dream character asking another dream character to stop the dream. > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > what exactly is this your claim about?.... > > > Marc next time i talk to me, i'll try to find out for you. - d - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: " If you have the courage to touch life for the first time, you will never know what hit you. Everything man has thought, felt and experienced is gone, and nothing is put in its place. " -- U.G. Krishnamurti Questioner: You say that whatever you see is yourself. You also admit that you see the world as we see it. Here is today's newspaper with all the horrors going on. Since the world is yourself, how can you explain such misbehaviour? Nisargadatta Maharaj: Which world do you have in mind? Questioner: Our common world, in which we live. Nisargadatta: Are you sure we live in the same world? I do not mean nature, the sea and the land, plants and animals. They are not the problem, nor the endless space, the infinite time, the inexhaustible power. Do not be misled by my eating and smoking, reading and talking. My mind is not here, my life is not here. Your world, of desires and their fulfilments, of fears and their escapes, is definitely not my world. I do not even perceive it, except through what you tell me about it. It is your private dream world and my only reaction to it is to ask you to stop dreaming. --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > " If you have the courage to touch life for the first time, you will never know what hit you. Everything man has thought, felt and experienced is gone, and nothing is put in its place. " -- U.G. Krishnamurti > > > > > > > > Questioner: You say that whatever you see is yourself. You also admit that you see the world as we see it. Here is today's newspaper with all the horrors going on. Since the world is yourself, how can you explain such misbehaviour? > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta Maharaj: Which world do you have in mind? > > > > > > > > Questioner: Our common world, in which we live. > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta: Are you sure we live in the same world? I do not mean nature, the sea and the land, plants and animals. They are not the problem, nor the endless space, the infinite time, the inexhaustible power. Do not be misled by my eating and smoking, reading and talking. My mind is not here, my life is not here. Your world, of desires and their fulfilments, of fears and their escapes, is definitely not my world. I do not even perceive it, except through what you tell me about it. It is your private dream world and my only reaction to it is to ask you to stop dreaming. > > > > > > > > > The fact is, the person he speaks to is a dream character. Asking that character to stop dreaming is irrelevant. > > > > > > The " dream " is a metaphor. Another metaphor is " splitting, projecting, attacking, defending. " > > > > > > The person he's addressing is constructed through splitting and projecting. It's useless to ask this person to stop the splitting and projecting. > > > > > > The dream can only stop nonvolitionally, when it is time to stop. > > > > > > There isn't any human control over starting it or stopping it. > > > > > > I guess that would make gurus, teachings, practices, mighty ... irrelevant, no? > > > > > > All of that stuff is just as much a by-product of dreaming as anything else. > > > > > > A person claiming not to live in the dream " becomes " a dream character simply due to appearing to " another. " > > > > > > So, regardless of the claim, it just becomes a case of a dream character asking another dream character to stop the dream. > > > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > what exactly is this your claim about?.... > > > > > > Marc > > > > next time i talk to me, i'll try to find out for you. > > - d - > yes, no no, yes... there is no common world.....and never will be.... impossible so to find out something about me....which isn't about you lol Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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