Guest guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Conceptual thought....and the resulting sense of self... is layer upon layer of accumulated mnemonic debris whose very function is to confine the chaotic perceptual input to predictable patterns. It evolved to stop the flowing into a series of survival based freeze frames which become its reference points in its personal dream of separation. And a few of these phantoms search the maps that they create for a way out. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain wrote: > > > > > > Conceptual thought....and the resulting sense of self... is layer upon layer of accumulated mnemonic debris whose very function is to confine the chaotic perceptual input to predictable patterns. Toomb, Your are stuck in all your conceptual this and conceptual that. Why don't you start totally anew and forget all that concepts crap ? The sense of self does not result from conceptual thought. When you are born the human brain already is ready and prepared to build a self to be able to survive with its help. Werner > > It evolved to stop the flowing into a series of survival based freeze frames which become its reference points in its personal dream of separation. > > And a few of these phantoms search the maps that they create for a way out. > > > > toombaru > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain wrote: > > > > > > Conceptual thought....and the resulting sense of self... is layer upon layer of accumulated mnemonic debris whose very function is to confine the chaotic perceptual input to predictable patterns. > > It evolved to stop the flowing into a series of survival based freeze frames which become its reference points in its personal dream of separation. > > And a few of these phantoms search the maps that they create for a way out. > > > > toombaru > yes, this is conceptual talk.... Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Conceptual thought....and the resulting sense of self... is layer upon layer of accumulated mnemonic debris whose very function is to confine the chaotic perceptual input to predictable patterns. > > > Toomb, > > Your are stuck in all your conceptual this and conceptual that. Why don't you start totally anew and forget all that concepts crap ? > > The sense of self does not result from conceptual thought. When you are born the human brain already is ready and prepared to build a self to be able to survive with its help. > > Werner > > maybe some concentration camp for toombaru too?... but ok, this toombarus concepts are for nobody realy.... they are just part of " toombaru " .... who love to bubble all around.... and getting attention from/to/by himself.... .... toombarus concept would come to end... just like toombaru himself... if nobody would answer anymore to this his conceptual talk... means, no more leaving him some food.....for/from/by the ego .... means, toombaru is made of/by/from some other egos... thats all Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Conceptual thought....and the resulting sense of self... is layer upon layer of accumulated mnemonic debris whose very function is to confine the chaotic perceptual input to predictable patterns. > > > Toomb, > > Your are stuck in all your conceptual this and conceptual that. Why don't you start totally anew and forget all that concepts crap ? > > The sense of self does not result from conceptual thought. When you are born the human brain already is ready and prepared to build a self to be able to survive with its help. > > Werner > > The self is solidified thought. It exists only in the thinking of it. It is a mnemonic-conceptual phantom. Try thinking of your self without using its own memory. Try thinking about it without conceptual thought. toombaru toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Conceptual thought....and the resulting sense of self... is layer upon layer of accumulated mnemonic debris whose very function is to confine the chaotic perceptual input to predictable patterns. > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > Your are stuck in all your conceptual this and conceptual that. Why don't you start totally anew and forget all that concepts crap ? > > > > The sense of self does not result from conceptual thought. When you are born the human brain already is ready and prepared to build a self to be able to survive with its help. > > > > Werner > > > > > > > The self is solidified thought. > It exists only in the thinking of it. > It is a mnemonic-conceptual phantom. > Try thinking of your self without using its own memory. > Try thinking about it without conceptual thought. > > toombaru Toomb, Similar nonsense as what you wrote is this: Try to bite into your ellbows and you will find proved that there are no ellbows. Again: The self is you and your are the self, Toomb. The self is a bundle of conditioned reflexes, of likes and dislikes, of the influences of your personal. past, your family, teachers, friends and all your relationships, etc. It is all the associations from your personal history still influencing and coloring your presence. And all that is you. And YOU, Toomb, you are not a concept. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain wrote: > > > The self is solidified thought. > It exists only in the thinking of it. > It is a mnemonic-conceptual phantom. > Try thinking of your self without using its own memory. No self is thinking of itself. Thoughts are arising in the moment, nonvolitionally, based on distorted views related to concept, such as a self being there to try something. It's all imaginary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > The self is solidified thought. > > It exists only in the thinking of it. > > It is a mnemonic-conceptual phantom. > > Try thinking of your self without using its own memory. > > No self is thinking of itself. > > Thoughts are arising in the moment, nonvolitionally, based on distorted views related to concept, such as a self being there to try something. It's all imaginary. > Thoughts are the nature of creativity & destruction on the *human level*. Nature acts nonvolitionally. Only humans have the natural ability to go beyond thought. ~A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > The self is solidified thought. > > It exists only in the thinking of it. > > It is a mnemonic-conceptual phantom. > > Try thinking of your self without using its own memory. > > No self is thinking of itself. > > Thoughts are arising in the moment, nonvolitionally, based on distorted views related to concept, such as a self being there to try something. It's all imaginary. Yes, and physical tensioning representing a bodily reaction as if the body were being piloted by a continuously existing self that directs it. And memory arising in reference to other remembered events seemingly linked by a common reference point - a self. And emotions referring to thoughts referring to memories referring to tensions referring to emotions ... etc. And all of this, as you say, arising in/through/as this moment. None of it constitutes an actually existing continuity of a self over time - which is impossible. The actuality of being as it is doesn't allow any " outside existent " to ever take the stage. So, the self is a lot like a skip in a CD that is being played when it hits a scratch, going g-g-g-g-g-g-g-g ... To continue the metaphor, you could say the CD never stops playing ( " what is " never stops moving/being), but it's not making very sweet music at the point where it's hitting the scratch ... A " thorn to remove a thorn " is a kind of scratch-remover of sorts - the scratch being the attempt to have an existence that isn't necessary or possible to have - and yet is " believed in " because the evidence seems so overwhelming that it must be there ... it has all these relationships, you see ... .... until it is understood that the evidence is utterly insubstantial and has no grounding ... - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > A " thorn to remove a thorn " is a kind of scratch-remover of sorts - the scratch being the attempt to have an existence that isn't necessary or possible to have - and yet is " believed in " because the evidence seems so overwhelming that it must be there ... it has all these > relationships, you see ... Indeed... relationships. That's the kicker, eh? ;-). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Conceptual thought....and the resulting sense of self... is layer upon layer of accumulated mnemonic debris whose very function is to confine the chaotic perceptual input to predictable patterns. > > > > > > > > > Toomb, > > > > > > Your are stuck in all your conceptual this and conceptual that. Why don't you start totally anew and forget all that concepts crap ? > > > > > > The sense of self does not result from conceptual thought. When you are born the human brain already is ready and prepared to build a self to be able to survive with its help. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > The self is solidified thought. > > It exists only in the thinking of it. > > It is a mnemonic-conceptual phantom. > > Try thinking of your self without using its own memory. > > Try thinking about it without conceptual thought. > > > > toombaru > > > Toomb, > > Similar nonsense as what you wrote is this: > > Try to bite into your ellbows and you will find proved that there are no ellbows. > > Again: > The self is you and your are the self, Toomb. > > The self is a bundle of conditioned reflexes, of likes and dislikes, of the influences of your personal. past, your family, teachers, friends and all your relationships, etc. It is all the associations from your personal history still influencing and coloring your presence. > > And all that is you. And YOU, Toomb, you are not a concept. > > Werner > the concept of this " toomb " need to die....in order to know....at least something..... but this concept of " toomb " strive hard..... for one very good reason... Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 > Conceptual thought....and the resulting sense of self... is layer upon layer of accumulated mnemonic debris whose very function is to confine the chaotic perceptual input to predictable patterns.> Toomb,> Your are stuck in all your conceptual this and conceptual that. Why don't you start totally anew and forget all that concepts crap ?> The sense of self does not result from conceptual thought. When you are born the human brain already is ready and prepared to build a self to be able to survive with its help.> Werner There's the "psychological" self and the bodily-based "functional" self. The first is (mistakenly) taken to be "who" one is as an independently existing separate entity. The "functional" self is the psychophysical apparatus (body) with a "center" where various processes (sensations, perceptions, thoughts, proprioceptions, etc) are constantly being co-ordinated which gives rise to the sense of being a body over and against the environment. This processing or co-ordinating generates a sense of a "center" or "focal point", existing inside the body (usually perceived to be somewhere between the ears and behind the eyes). Thought then enters the picture and adorns this activity (verb) with images, pictures, ideas, stories, history, descriptions, etc garnered from the "outside" world and others as well as self-talk (thinking) and whadya know, up pops the "me" or "I". In other words, thought starts thinks of this activity (verb) as being a "noun" (a "me"). ~M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 > And a few of these phantoms search the maps that they create for a way out.> > > > toombaru>Marc says, > yes, this is conceptual talk....> > Marc Could you please speak to us non-conceptually? :-)) ~M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Michael Adamson " <adamson wrote: > > > > > Conceptual thought....and the resulting sense of self... is layer upon layer of accumulated mnemonic debris whose very function is to confine the chaotic perceptual input to predictable patterns. > > > Toomb, > > > Your are stuck in all your conceptual this and conceptual that. Why don't you start totally anew and forget all that concepts crap ? > > > The sense of self does not result from conceptual thought. When you are born the human brain already is ready and prepared to build a self to be able to survive with its help. > > > Werner > > There's the " psychological " self and the bodily-based " functional " self. The first is (mistakenly) taken to be " who " one is as an independently existing separate entity. The " functional " self is the psychophysical apparatus (body) with a " center " where various processes (sensations, perceptions, thoughts, proprioceptions, etc) are constantly being co-ordinated which gives rise to the sense of being a body over and against the environment. This processing or co-ordinating generates a sense of a " center " or " focal point " , existing inside the body (usually perceived to be somewhere between the ears and behind the eyes). Thought then enters the picture and adorns this activity (verb) with images, pictures, ideas, stories, history, descriptions, etc garnered from the " outside " world and others as well as self-talk (thinking) and whadya know, up pops the " me " or " I " . In other words, thought starts thinks of this activity (verb) as being a " noun " (a " me " ). > > ~M > Thanks Michael. No problem with you explanation, just the contrary, I see it the same way. Maybe one could add that verabal thought is created to eventually get commuicated. Voiceless thought is called thinking (mostly inner talks and dialogs) and loud thought is called speaking. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Michael Adamson " <adamson wrote: > > > > > And a few of these phantoms search the maps that they create for a way out. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > Marc says, > > > yes, this is conceptual talk.... > > > > > > Marc > > Could you please speak to us non-conceptually? :-)) > > ~M > you wouldn't understand anything... so better for you...i don't Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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