Guest guest Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 One could be enlightened, and still be in bondage to the monkey mind. One could have a connection to the ineffable, have had epiphanies galore, have bliss raptures by the ton, and still crave and be manipulated by the emotions of the monkey mind. The monkey mind evolved to protect life and uses instincts, desires, aversions, and emotions to keep us alive. Emotions aim, always, to protect life. Both sunny and dark emotions aim at this. Happiness, love, and delight in beauty protect life. No one resents such benevolent protection, and a liberated brain still feels those. On the other hand, a liberated brain has, no longer, need for fear, or grief because it no longer views life as the supreme good. This doesn't mean a liberated brain becomes reckless, or uncaring about life. The liberated brain won't kill an ant, unless it has to, but suffering won't arise when a human being dies. Suffering and pain are survival tools that are dispensed naturally as needed. A child is more sensitive to them, because it lacks reasoning power. An adult who can protect itself by reason doesn't need to feel pain or lost as much as a child. A liberated brain doesn't need to suffer at all, it feels it rarely, and when it comes, the brain doesn't avoid it, either. Pain is still felt, but causes no suffering at all. Pete http://cerosoul.wordpress.com http://awakefiction.wordpress.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 There is no such thing as liberated brain, Pete. What cha been smoking? There is no such thing as enlightenment, only experiences that continually spiral & take one step beyond the last one. Deeper and deeper into....what? A sense of peace with what is, including one's sense of pain and suffering, should that come up. My experience is that writers who speak of pain and suffering as something *rarely felt* have not had the experience of *father* let alone *mother*. I could be wrong, but it seems that way. ~A Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > One could be enlightened, and still be in bondage to the monkey > mind. One could have a connection to the ineffable, have had > epiphanies galore, have bliss raptures by the ton, and still > crave and be manipulated by the emotions of the monkey mind. > > The monkey mind evolved to protect life and uses instincts, > desires, aversions, and emotions to keep us alive. Emotions > aim, always, to protect life. Both sunny and dark emotions > aim at this. Happiness, love, and delight in beauty protect > life. No one resents such benevolent protection, and a > liberated brain still feels those. On the other hand, a > liberated brain has, no longer, need for fear, or grief > because it no longer views life as the supreme good. This > doesn't mean a liberated brain becomes reckless, or uncaring > about life. The liberated brain won't kill an ant, unless it > has to, but suffering won't arise when a human being dies. > > Suffering and pain are survival tools that are dispensed > naturally as needed. A child is more sensitive to them, > because it lacks reasoning power. An adult who can > protect itself by reason doesn't need to feel pain or > lost as much as a child. A liberated brain doesn't need > to suffer at all, it feels it rarely, and when it comes, > the brain doesn't avoid it, either. Pain is still felt, but > causes no suffering at all. > > Pete > http://cerosoul.wordpress.com > > http://awakefiction.wordpress.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 Nisargadatta , " anna " <kailashana wrote: > >A: There is no such thing as liberated brain, Pete. What cha been smoking? There is no such thing as enlightenment, P: Who was the only person who accused of being either. Let me guess. Her name starts with an A, I bet. >A: My experience is that writers who speak of pain and suffering as something *rarely felt* have not had the experience of *father* let alone *mother*. I could be wrong, but it seems that way. P: I'm not sure what you meant, but if you mean that they have not experienced the death of love ones, I'm so old that most people I ever loved are dead, and I have not ever shed a tear, or miss them at all, and yet I still feel love for them. Figure it out. NNB > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > One could be enlightened, and still be in bondage to the monkey > > mind. One could have a connection to the ineffable, have had > > epiphanies galore, have bliss raptures by the ton, and still > > crave and be manipulated by the emotions of the monkey mind. > > > > The monkey mind evolved to protect life and uses instincts, > > desires, aversions, and emotions to keep us alive. Emotions > > aim, always, to protect life. Both sunny and dark emotions > > aim at this. Happiness, love, and delight in beauty protect > > life. No one resents such benevolent protection, and a > > liberated brain still feels those. On the other hand, a > > liberated brain has, no longer, need for fear, or grief > > because it no longer views life as the supreme good. This > > doesn't mean a liberated brain becomes reckless, or uncaring > > about life. The liberated brain won't kill an ant, unless it > > has to, but suffering won't arise when a human being dies. > > > > Suffering and pain are survival tools that are dispensed > > naturally as needed. A child is more sensitive to them, > > because it lacks reasoning power. An adult who can > > protect itself by reason doesn't need to feel pain or > > lost as much as a child. A liberated brain doesn't need > > to suffer at all, it feels it rarely, and when it comes, > > the brain doesn't avoid it, either. Pain is still felt, but > > causes no suffering at all. > > > > Pete > > http://cerosoul.wordpress.com > > > > http://awakefiction.wordpress.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 I'm talking about something more than accusations Pete, let's deal with the issues. You talked about an *enlightened brain*. As far as I know all creatures big and small have some sort of *brain*. I'm not sure if an antelope or a duck can be enlightened, imo they already are. Additionally I am quite annoyed, fed up with the neti neti stance that disallows suffering/pain as if some sort of biblical plague. That suffering and pain can take on a different context to the one whose *MIND* has experienced enlightenment/liberation (not a finality, btw) is a GIVEN! However, when speaking of it like some sort of *carrot* before the cart, rather than the horse, it becomes an obstacle. All I'm saying is that as long as folks think they're still experiencing suffering/pain and it SHOULDN'T/WOULDN'T be so if they were *ENLIGHTENED*, it just creates a stumbling block where there isn't one. Take away the stumbling block, and the seeker experiences the reality of his her life, which includes everything and excludes nothing. That brings one to a moment of clarity which is a prerequisite to the experience of enlightenment/liberation (an on-going event). ~A Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anna " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > >A: There is no such thing as liberated brain, Pete. What cha been smoking? There is no such thing as enlightenment, > > P: Who was the only person who accused of being either. > Let me guess. Her name starts with an A, I bet. > > > > >A: My experience is that writers who speak of pain and suffering as something *rarely felt* have not had the experience of *father* let alone *mother*. I could be wrong, but it seems that way. > > P: I'm not sure what you meant, but if you mean > that they have not experienced the death of love > ones, I'm so old that most people I ever loved > are dead, and I have not ever shed a tear, or > miss them at all, and yet I still feel love for > them. Figure it out. > > NNB > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > One could be enlightened, and still be in bondage to the monkey > > > mind. One could have a connection to the ineffable, have had > > > epiphanies galore, have bliss raptures by the ton, and still > > > crave and be manipulated by the emotions of the monkey mind. > > > > > > The monkey mind evolved to protect life and uses instincts, > > > desires, aversions, and emotions to keep us alive. Emotions > > > aim, always, to protect life. Both sunny and dark emotions > > > aim at this. Happiness, love, and delight in beauty protect > > > life. No one resents such benevolent protection, and a > > > liberated brain still feels those. On the other hand, a > > > liberated brain has, no longer, need for fear, or grief > > > because it no longer views life as the supreme good. This > > > doesn't mean a liberated brain becomes reckless, or uncaring > > > about life. The liberated brain won't kill an ant, unless it > > > has to, but suffering won't arise when a human being dies. > > > > > > Suffering and pain are survival tools that are dispensed > > > naturally as needed. A child is more sensitive to them, > > > because it lacks reasoning power. An adult who can > > > protect itself by reason doesn't need to feel pain or > > > lost as much as a child. A liberated brain doesn't need > > > to suffer at all, it feels it rarely, and when it comes, > > > the brain doesn't avoid it, either. Pain is still felt, but > > > causes no suffering at all. > > > > > > Pete > > > http://cerosoul.wordpress.com > > > > > > http://awakefiction.wordpress.com > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 Nisargadatta , " anna " <kailashana wrote: > > There is no such thing as liberated brain, Pete. What cha been > smoking? We oughtta sic Hannibal Lecter on Pete... he'd make short work of Pete's brain, but I'm not comin' to dinner... thanks for the invite, but I've got a train to catch... bye :-p. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 - Tim G. Nisargadatta Saturday, October 17, 2009 7:15 PM Re: Enlightenment Doesn't Equal Liberation Nisargadatta , " anna " <kailashana wrote: > > There is no such thing as liberated brain, Pete. What cha been > smoking? geo> Are you suggesting that the brain does not change its fundamental structure upon understanding that there is no inner entity? No change after being freed from the burden of fear of death? No change upon understanding of its own limitations? -geo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Tim G. > Nisargadatta > Saturday, October 17, 2009 7:15 PM > Re: Enlightenment Doesn't Equal Liberation > > > Nisargadatta , " anna " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > > There is no such thing as liberated brain, Pete. What cha been > > smoking? > > geo> Are you suggesting that the brain does not change its fundamental > structure upon understanding that there is no inner entity? No change after > being freed from the burden of fear of death? No change upon understanding > of its own limitations? > -geo- The brain is probably changing all the time, ceaselessly, as is everything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 - Tim G. Nisargadatta Sunday, October 18, 2009 1:04 AM Re: Enlightenment Doesn't Equal Liberation Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Tim G. > Nisargadatta > Saturday, October 17, 2009 7:15 PM > Re: Enlightenment Doesn't Equal Liberation > > > Nisargadatta , " anna " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > > There is no such thing as liberated brain, Pete. What cha been > > smoking? > > geo> Are you suggesting that the brain does not change its fundamental > structure upon understanding that there is no inner entity? No change > after > being freed from the burden of fear of death? No change upon understanding > of its own limitations? > -geo- The brain is probably changing all the time, ceaselessly, as is everything else. -tim- There probably is a fundamentaly different kind of change in the brain structure when the movement of consciousness as of millions of years is seen and halted. -geo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 Nisargadatta , " anna " <kailashana wrote: > > I'm talking about something more than accusations Pete, let's deal with the issues. > >A: You talked about an *enlightened brain*. As far as I know all creatures big and small have some sort of *brain*. I'm not sure if > an antelope or a duck can be enlightened, imo they already are. P: Laugh! Please don't fight a straw man. I didn't mention any other brains, but the human brain. Enlightenment in animals is moot point. To understand my point that only a human brain can be enlightened, and further liberated after enlightenment, ask yourself what else could be liberated beside the brain? Does That/True Nature/ Absolute/ Unknown, or whatever you want to call it, need enlightenment or liberation? Is it deluded in your opinion? If the answer is no, I think, any reasonable person will agree only the human brain, and its functioning called mind can be enlightened and liberated. > >A: Additionally I am quite annoyed, fed up with the neti neti stance > that disallows suffering/pain as if some sort of biblical plague. Haha! Masochists and Buddhists will always disagree on this. If you get your kicks out of being a heroine in a Greek tragedy, bully for you. Go for it! > >A: That suffering and pain can take on a different context to the one whose *MIND* has experienced enlightenment/liberation (not a finality, btw) is a GIVEN! P: Suffering doesn't even arise because suffering is not fully accepting whatever change comes our way, and no brain can be called liberated that doesn't fully accept change. Change is constant and inevitable. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anna " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > > I'm talking about something more than accusations Pete, let's deal with the issues. > > > >A: You talked about an *enlightened brain*. As far as I know all creatures big and small have some sort of *brain*. I'm not sure if > > an antelope or a duck can be enlightened, imo they already are. > > P: Laugh! Please don't fight a straw man. I didn't > mention any other brains, but the human brain. Enlightenment > in animals is moot point. To understand my point that > only a human brain can be enlightened, and further > liberated after enlightenment, ask yourself what else > could be liberated beside the brain? Does That/True > Nature/ Absolute/ Unknown, or whatever you want to > call it, need enlightenment or liberation? Is it > deluded in your opinion? If the answer is no, I think, > any reasonable person will agree only the human brain, > and its functioning called mind can be enlightened and > liberated. Like one can enlighten and liberate a shadow with a flashlight? :-0 toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anna " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > > > > I'm talking about something more than accusations Pete, let's deal with the issues. > > > > > >A: You talked about an *enlightened brain*. As far as I know all creatures big and small have some sort of *brain*. I'm not sure if > > > an antelope or a duck can be enlightened, imo they already are. > > > > P: Laugh! Please don't fight a straw man. I didn't > > mention any other brains, but the human brain. Enlightenment > > in animals is moot point. To understand my point that > > only a human brain can be enlightened, and further > > liberated after enlightenment, ask yourself what else > > could be liberated beside the brain? Does That/True > > Nature/ Absolute/ Unknown, or whatever you want to > > call it, need enlightenment or liberation? Is it > > deluded in your opinion? If the answer is no, I think, > > any reasonable person will agree only the human brain, > > and its functioning called mind can be enlightened and > > liberated. > > > > > > >T: Like one can enlighten and liberate a shadow with a flashlight? P: Yes! We Can! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anna " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm talking about something more than accusations Pete, let's deal with the issues. > > > > > > > >A: You talked about an *enlightened brain*. As far as I know all creatures big and small have some sort of *brain*. I'm not sure if > > > > an antelope or a duck can be enlightened, imo they already are. > > > > > > P: Laugh! Please don't fight a straw man. I didn't > > > mention any other brains, but the human brain. Enlightenment > > > in animals is moot point. To understand my point that > > > only a human brain can be enlightened, and further > > > liberated after enlightenment, ask yourself what else > > > could be liberated beside the brain? Does That/True > > > Nature/ Absolute/ Unknown, or whatever you want to > > > call it, need enlightenment or liberation? Is it > > > deluded in your opinion? If the answer is no, I think, > > > any reasonable person will agree only the human brain, > > > and its functioning called mind can be enlightened and > > > liberated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >T: Like one can enlighten and liberate a shadow with a flashlight? > > > P: Yes! We Can! > Namaste, Why all this talk of the brain? it is the mind not the brain. The brain is just hardware and perhaps softeware it is not the programmer etc. Birds have tiny brains yet can have high intelligence as the bird brain is superior in many respects to human/animal brains..Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anna " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > > > > > > I'm talking about something more than accusations Pete, let's deal with the issues. > > > > > > > >A: You talked about an *enlightened brain*. As far as I know all creatures big and small have some sort of *brain*. I'm not sure if > > > > an antelope or a duck can be enlightened, imo they already are. > > > > > > P: Laugh! Please don't fight a straw man. I didn't > > > mention any other brains, but the human brain. Enlightenment > > > in animals is moot point. To understand my point that > > > only a human brain can be enlightened, and further > > > liberated after enlightenment, ask yourself what else > > > could be liberated beside the brain? Does That/True > > > Nature/ Absolute/ Unknown, or whatever you want to > > > call it, need enlightenment or liberation? Is it > > > deluded in your opinion? If the answer is no, I think, > > > any reasonable person will agree only the human brain, > > > and its functioning called mind can be enlightened and > > > liberated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >T: Like one can enlighten and liberate a shadow with a flashlight? > > > P: Yes! We Can! > Can you liberate a squirrel with a shotgun? toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " aoclery " <aoclery wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anna " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I'm talking about something more than accusations Pete, let's deal with the issues. > > > > > > > > > >A: You talked about an *enlightened brain*. As far as I know all creatures big and small have some sort of *brain*. I'm not sure if > > > > > an antelope or a duck can be enlightened, imo they already are. > > > > > > > > P: Laugh! Please don't fight a straw man. I didn't > > > > mention any other brains, but the human brain. Enlightenment > > > > in animals is moot point. To understand my point that > > > > only a human brain can be enlightened, and further > > > > liberated after enlightenment, ask yourself what else > > > > could be liberated beside the brain? Does That/True > > > > Nature/ Absolute/ Unknown, or whatever you want to > > > > call it, need enlightenment or liberation? Is it > > > > deluded in your opinion? If the answer is no, I think, > > > > any reasonable person will agree only the human brain, > > > > and its functioning called mind can be enlightened and > > > > liberated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >T: Like one can enlighten and liberate a shadow with a flashlight? > > > > > > P: Yes! We Can! > > > Namaste, > > Why all this talk of the brain? it is the mind not the brain. The brain is just hardware and perhaps softeware it is not the programmer etc. > > Birds have tiny brains yet can have high intelligence as the bird brain is superior in many respects to human/animal brains..Tony. > Mind is consciousness which has put on limitations. You are originally unlimited and perfect. Later you take on limitations and become the mind. Raman Maharshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " aoclery " <aoclery@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anna " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm talking about something more than accusations Pete, let's deal with the issues. > > > > > > > > > > > >A: You talked about an *enlightened brain*. As far as I know all creatures big and small have some sort of *brain*. I'm not sure if > > > > > > an antelope or a duck can be enlightened, imo they already are. > > > > > > > > > > P: Laugh! Please don't fight a straw man. I didn't > > > > > mention any other brains, but the human brain. Enlightenment > > > > > in animals is moot point. To understand my point that > > > > > only a human brain can be enlightened, and further > > > > > liberated after enlightenment, ask yourself what else > > > > > could be liberated beside the brain? Does That/True > > > > > Nature/ Absolute/ Unknown, or whatever you want to > > > > > call it, need enlightenment or liberation? Is it > > > > > deluded in your opinion? If the answer is no, I think, > > > > > any reasonable person will agree only the human brain, > > > > > and its functioning called mind can be enlightened and > > > > > liberated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >T: Like one can enlighten and liberate a shadow with a flashlight? > > > > > > > > > P: Yes! We Can! > > > > > Namaste, > > > > Why all this talk of the brain? it is the mind not the brain. The brain is just hardware and perhaps softeware it is not the programmer etc. > > > > Birds have tiny brains yet can have high intelligence as the bird brain is superior in many respects to human/animal brains..Tony. > > > > > Mind is consciousness which has put on limitations. You are originally unlimited and perfect. Later you take on limitations and become the mind. > > Raman Maharshi > Baloney. You were not originally unlimited. You were not originally perfect. You Are the limitation. You have no existence outside of that arena. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anna " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I'm talking about something more than accusations Pete, let's deal with the issues. > > > > > > > > > >A: You talked about an *enlightened brain*. As far as I know all creatures big and small have some sort of *brain*. I'm not sure if > > > > > an antelope or a duck can be enlightened, imo they already are. > > > > > > > > P: Laugh! Please don't fight a straw man. I didn't > > > > mention any other brains, but the human brain. Enlightenment > > > > in animals is moot point. To understand my point that > > > > only a human brain can be enlightened, and further > > > > liberated after enlightenment, ask yourself what else > > > > could be liberated beside the brain? Does That/True > > > > Nature/ Absolute/ Unknown, or whatever you want to > > > > call it, need enlightenment or liberation? Is it > > > > deluded in your opinion? If the answer is no, I think, > > > > any reasonable person will agree only the human brain, > > > > and its functioning called mind can be enlightened and > > > > liberated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >T: Like one can enlighten and liberate a shadow with a flashlight? > > > > > > P: Yes! We Can! > > > > > > Can you liberate a squirrel with a shotgun? P: Yes, we can! When I was a teen, I liberated a few myself using just that liberation tool. > > > > > toombaru > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain wrote: > > > > Mind is consciousness which has put on limitations. You are originally unlimited and perfect. Later you take on limitations and become the mind. > > > > Raman Maharshi > > > > > Baloney. > You were not originally unlimited. > You were not originally perfect. > You Are the limitation. > You have no existence outside of that arena. > > > > toombaru Toomie's more enlightened than Ramannnnnnn-a. Toomie's more enlightened than Ramannnnnnn-a :-p. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > Mind is consciousness which has put on limitations. You are originally unlimited and perfect. Later you take on limitations and become the mind. > > > > > > Raman Maharshi > > > > > > > > > Baloney. > > You were not originally unlimited. > > You were not originally perfect. > > You Are the limitation. > > You have no existence outside of that arena. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > Toomie's more enlightened than Ramannnnnnn-a. Toomie's more enlightened than Ramannnnnnn-a :-p. > Are you sure that everything Ramana uttered was true? Are you sure that all the translations capture the essence of his intent? toombaru toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain wrote: > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > Toomie's more enlightened than Ramannnnnnn-a. Toomie's more enlightened than Ramannnnnnn-a :-p. > > > > > > > Are you sure that everything Ramana uttered was true? On the contrary -- I'm certain that neither anything he nor you ever uttered was true, nor ever will be. > Are you sure that all the translations capture the essence of his > intent? I haven't read all the translations, nor ever heard him in the original language, and so I have no clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Toomie's more enlightened than Ramannnnnnn-a. Toomie's more enlightened than Ramannnnnnn-a :-p. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you sure that everything Ramana uttered was true? > > On the contrary -- I'm certain that neither anything he nor you ever uttered was true, nor ever will be. > Do you believe that he was enlightened? toombaru > > Are you sure that all the translations capture the essence of his > > intent? > > I haven't read all the translations, nor ever heard him in the original language, and so I have no clue. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > Toomie's more enlightened than Ramannnnnnn-a. Toomie's more enlightened than Ramannnnnnn-a :-p. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you sure that everything Ramana uttered was true? > > > > On the contrary -- I'm certain that neither anything he nor you ever uttered was true, nor ever will be. > > > > > > > Do you believe that he was enlightened? Probably. He and Nisargadatta both seem to be making sense here, as far as the essence of their teachings go. As long as one doesn't shun concepts like " the Self " and looks instead at the essence as a whole... but that is up to whatever " pointers " make sense to someone. They're just words, and they have no truth in and of themselves aside from how well they 'work' as pointers, in my view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " aoclery " <aoclery@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anna " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm talking about something more than accusations Pete, let's deal with the issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >A: You talked about an *enlightened brain*. As far as I know all creatures big and small have some sort of *brain*. I'm not sure if > > > > > > > an antelope or a duck can be enlightened, imo they already are. > > > > > > > > > > > > P: Laugh! Please don't fight a straw man. I didn't > > > > > > mention any other brains, but the human brain. Enlightenment > > > > > > in animals is moot point. To understand my point that > > > > > > only a human brain can be enlightened, and further > > > > > > liberated after enlightenment, ask yourself what else > > > > > > could be liberated beside the brain? Does That/True > > > > > > Nature/ Absolute/ Unknown, or whatever you want to > > > > > > call it, need enlightenment or liberation? Is it > > > > > > deluded in your opinion? If the answer is no, I think, > > > > > > any reasonable person will agree only the human brain, > > > > > > and its functioning called mind can be enlightened and > > > > > > liberated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >T: Like one can enlighten and liberate a shadow with a flashlight? > > > > > > > > > > > > P: Yes! We Can! > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > Why all this talk of the brain? it is the mind not the brain. The brain is just hardware and perhaps softeware it is not the programmer etc. > > > > > > Birds have tiny brains yet can have high intelligence as the bird brain is superior in many respects to human/animal brains..Tony. > > > > > > > > > Mind is consciousness which has put on limitations. You are originally unlimited and perfect. Later you take on limitations and become the mind. > > > > Raman Maharshi > > > > > Baloney. > You were not originally unlimited. > You were not originally perfect. > You Are the limitation. > You have no existence outside of that arena. > > > > toombaru > sure.....like the Toomits?... without self and Self? realy little robbots all around?...which are in (no) relation to each?... lol Marc Ps: there is limitation because of unlimitation or... ohh...but maybe you believe in an unlimited duration of existence.... like the one of Toomits?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " wwoehr " <wwoehr@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " aoclery " <aoclery@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anna " <kailashana@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm talking about something more than accusations Pete, let's deal with the issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >A: You talked about an *enlightened brain*. As far as I know all creatures big and small have some sort of *brain*. I'm not sure if > > > > > > > > an antelope or a duck can be enlightened, imo they already are. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P: Laugh! Please don't fight a straw man. I didn't > > > > > > > mention any other brains, but the human brain. Enlightenment > > > > > > > in animals is moot point. To understand my point that > > > > > > > only a human brain can be enlightened, and further > > > > > > > liberated after enlightenment, ask yourself what else > > > > > > > could be liberated beside the brain? Does That/True > > > > > > > Nature/ Absolute/ Unknown, or whatever you want to > > > > > > > call it, need enlightenment or liberation? Is it > > > > > > > deluded in your opinion? If the answer is no, I think, > > > > > > > any reasonable person will agree only the human brain, > > > > > > > and its functioning called mind can be enlightened and > > > > > > > liberated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >T: Like one can enlighten and liberate a shadow with a flashlight? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P: Yes! We Can! > > > > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > > > Why all this talk of the brain? it is the mind not the brain. The brain is just hardware and perhaps softeware it is not the programmer etc. > > > > > > > > Birds have tiny brains yet can have high intelligence as the bird brain is superior in many respects to human/animal brains..Tony. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mind is consciousness which has put on limitations. You are originally unlimited and perfect. Later you take on limitations and become the mind. > > > > > > Raman Maharshi > > > > > > > > > Baloney. > > You were not originally unlimited. > > You were not originally perfect. > > You Are the limitation. > > You have no existence outside of that arena. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > sure.....like the Toomits?... This little piggy went to Marc-it At the Marc-it, the piggy bought a Toomit. And that piggy went " wee, wee " , all the way home :-p. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > Mind is consciousness which has put on limitations. You are originally unlimited and perfect. Later you take on limitations and become the mind. > > > > > > Raman Maharshi > > > > > > > > > Baloney. > > You were not originally unlimited. > > You were not originally perfect. > > You Are the limitation. > > You have no existence outside of that arena. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > Toomie's more enlightened than Ramannnnnnn-a. Toomie's more enlightened than Ramannnnnnn-a :-p. > more or less " limited " than Ramana?.... lol Ramana would prefer to see Lakshmi.....than to hear this foolish bubbles of a such limited being... Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru " <lastrain@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Mind is consciousness which has put on limitations. You are originally unlimited and perfect. Later you take on limitations and become the mind. > > > > > > > > Raman Maharshi > > > > > > > > > > > > > Baloney. > > > You were not originally unlimited. > > > You were not originally perfect. > > > You Are the limitation. > > > You have no existence outside of that arena. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > Toomie's more enlightened than Ramannnnnnn-a. Toomie's more enlightened than Ramannnnnnn-a :-p. > > > > > > > Are you sure that everything Ramana uttered was true? > > Are you sure that all the translations capture the essence of his intent? > > > > > toombaru > > > > > toombaru > only Toomits can't be sure about Ramana.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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