Guest guest Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 - ac Nisargadatta Monday, January 18, 2010 5:34 PM Discourses on JK. Thanks Lene! I have read very little of JK. But, what I find even more remarkable is that I remember nothing of what I read of him! It is like travelling very fast for long time, yet, not going anywhere, because you have just been moving in circles. Not, that moving in circles is totally useless! It can be a good exercise for the body and can make muscles! It can make you stronger. I guess that is what has happened to some of JK's followers. They might not have really learned anything but, through the exercise of reading him, they might have become bigger, more stubborn and more difficult spiritual idiots with stronger intellectual and debate muscles than before. I am not suggesting that everyone who followed JK became like that. Some certainly saw him as " not going anywhere " movement of treadmill and used him only as exercise equipment and not an device to go anywhere. He was also praised and respected by many people whom I respect and value. Thus, I guess he had something to offer, but, just like I missed (or " suspected " ) some of quantum physics, I missed (or found " wortless " and " confused " ) some of JK's teaching too. Through much of my reading of him, he came across as someone who had extremely high opinion of himself and quite low opinion of his followers. Low opinion of followers might come from the fact that maybe, he couldn't not understand why they were following him. -ac- " I remember nothing of what I read of him! " ,- but you sure has allot to say about it. And then " I missed (or found " wortless " and " confused " ) some of JK's teaching too. " - specially the parts that you remember..which is, as you say, nothing. Your opinion is not very....what?....racional. But thanks Lene - for what? -geo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 I found teachings of Advaita and Ramana much simpler, clear and straight-forward: Deep dreamless sleep is the purest state of nonduality. There is not a moment when you are not. What is real, exists in deep dreamless sleep too. The ego, the false I, individuality is not real because it doesn't exist in deep dreamless state. Your reality is same through all states dream, wakefulness and deep dreamless sleep. Realization is nothing to get new. Everything that begins must end too. If realization has a beginning, it must have an end too. Consciousness bent inwards feels like God. All that is needed to be known is to find the source of 'I'. The source of (false) 'I' is the I thought. and, as Papaji used to say: .... Don't touch this sense of 'I' for a moment and tell me if you are not sleeping right now. .... and, as Ramana used to say... in reality, you are always in sleep only. .... and, as Papaji used to say... When you wake up, mind wakes us, " I " wakes up and with that " I " that entire world wakes up. If you don't touch this sense of I, you will experience the happiness of sleep while awake! (all paraphrased) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 And thank you JK was conditioned like everyone else and so he may be excused for whatever he said and did - he could not for it, as I would phrase it. I watched a video recently (one of a few, I dont like watching him on video). He was a very young man, helplessly dangling in between the claws of her and his majesties the super-ignorants who thought they had found their little baby christ, new world leader - how could they?! How stupid can one be?! I myself was not that stupid even beFORE I met K. Calm down now Lene - it is all but an adventure - a show, you know. Ah yes - thanks He held a speech and he looked beautiful, he was SO beautiful, and he turned to the left, and he turned to the right - after speaking -- and asked: was I good enough? Did I do all right? Yes? Thank you, thank you, thank you very very much. I would've been proud of being his mother and I would not have sold him to anyone - you do not sell your children - except in this the best of all worlds of course. I donot like this world as you may have found out already. It is a horrible place, and it's no wonder we keep looking up and out and around hoping to find intelligence somewhere in outer space for here there sure ain't no such thing. Finis finalis. PS He broke with the whole circus when he was 33, good for us. I think he'd been conditioned so well that he had to spend the rest of his life un-conditioning himself - and there must have been a certain anger present especially after the relationship with Rosalind (his best friend's wife - wow! Surely he was but a man and no more of a god or devil than I am, just human) had finished. Im angry myself as you can tell - angry on behalf of me and you and K and all mankind and the way we're conditioning each other to beCOME gods - to beCOME devils - to beCOME this and that but then my friend - is not this conditioning what we truly are and is it not all in the past, and is there anything to do about it therefore but be it and see it and then be it not Love Lene Nisargadatta , " ac " <adithya_comming wrote: > > Thanks Lene! > > I have read very little of JK. But, what I find even more remarkable is that I remember nothing of what I read of him! It is like travelling very fast for long time, yet, not going anywhere, because you have just been moving in circles. > > Not, that moving in circles is totally useless! It can be a good exercise for the body and can make muscles! It can make you stronger. I guess that is what has happened to some of JK's followers. They might not have really learned anything but, through the exercise of reading him, they might have become bigger, more stubborn and more difficult spiritual idiots with stronger intellectual and debate muscles than before. > > I am not suggesting that everyone who followed JK became like that. Some certainly saw him as " not going anywhere " movement of treadmill and used him only as exercise equipment and not an device to go anywhere. > > > He was also praised and respected by many people whom I respect and value. Thus, I guess he had something to offer, but, just like I missed (or " suspected " ) some of quantum physics, I missed (or found " wortless " and " confused " ) some of JK's teaching too. > > Through much of my reading of him, he came across as someone who had extremely high opinion of himself and quite low opinion of his followers. Low opinion of followers might come from the fact that maybe, he couldn't not understand why they were following him. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > ac > Nisargadatta > Monday, January 18, 2010 5:34 PM > Discourses on JK. > > > > Thanks Lene! > > I have read very little of JK. But, what I find even more remarkable is that > I remember nothing of what I read of him! It is like travelling very fast > for long time, yet, not going anywhere, because you have just been moving in > circles. > > Not, that moving in circles is totally useless! It can be a good exercise > for the body and can make muscles! It can make you stronger. I guess that is > what has happened to some of JK's followers. They might not have really > learned anything but, through the exercise of reading him, they might have > become bigger, more stubborn and more difficult spiritual idiots with > stronger intellectual and debate muscles than before. > > I am not suggesting that everyone who followed JK became like that. Some > certainly saw him as " not going anywhere " movement of treadmill and used him > only as exercise equipment and not an device to go anywhere. > > He was also praised and respected by many people whom I respect and value. > Thus, I guess he had something to offer, but, just like I missed (or > " suspected " ) some of quantum physics, I missed (or found " wortless " and > " confused " ) some of JK's teaching too. > > Through much of my reading of him, he came across as someone who had > extremely high opinion of himself and quite low opinion of his followers. > Low opinion of followers might come from the fact that maybe, he couldn't > not understand why they were following him. > -ac- > > > " I remember nothing of what I read of him! " ,- but you sure has allot to say > about it. And then " I missed (or found " wortless " and " confused " ) some of > JK's teaching too. " - specially the parts that you remember..which is, as > you say, nothing. Your opinion is not very....what?....racional. But thanks > Lene - for what? > -geo- Yes, let us be racional blacks here whites there chop chop teddybear Oh well -L- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 Thanks AC - beautiful - simple - clear. Which reminds me that K was so careful about not stating the positive. Still his philosophy was the key opened the door for me. And then followed what is listed below ... -Lene Nisargadatta , " ac " <adithya_comming wrote: > > I found teachings of Advaita and Ramana much simpler, clear and straight-forward: > > Deep dreamless sleep is the purest state of nonduality. > > There is not a moment when you are not. > > What is real, exists in deep dreamless sleep too. > > The ego, the false I, individuality is not real because it doesn't exist in deep dreamless state. > > Your reality is same through all states dream, wakefulness and deep dreamless sleep. > > Realization is nothing to get new. Everything that begins must end too. If realization has a beginning, it must have an end too. > > > Consciousness bent inwards feels like God. > > All that is needed to be known is to find the source of 'I'. > > The source of (false) 'I' is the I thought. > > > and, as Papaji used to say: > > ... > > > Don't touch this sense of 'I' for a moment and tell me if you are not sleeping right now. > > > ... > > and, as Ramana used to say... > > > in reality, you are always in sleep only. > > > ... > > and, as Papaji used to say... > > When you wake up, mind wakes us, " I " wakes up and with that " I " that entire world wakes up. > > If you don't touch this sense of I, you will experience the happiness of sleep while awake! > > > (all paraphrased) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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