Guest guest Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > Bill Rishel > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, February 02, 2010 7:13 AM > > Re: Re: Nothingness' Koan > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 3:44 PM, dan330033 <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Bill Rishel <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 8:44 AM, cerosoul <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The word " nothingness " is a tarbaby, a gleam in a philosopher's > > > > > > eye. And " nothing " more. > > > > > > > > > > > > The notion of " nothingness " , in any ontological sense, is > > > > > > a philosophical muddle. But it can still be a useful idea > > > > > > when it is seen as merely an idea, and not at as *reference > > > > > > to something* (urr, nothing). > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > P: No thing exist as real nor illusion in unconsciousness. In > > > > > this sense, nothigness is a synonym for unconsciousness. Our > > > > > idea of nothingness arises from an irresolvable contradiction: > > > > > our awareness of the total absence of everything when unconscious. > > > > > > > > > > How that strikes you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > B: It's a cool idea... my first impression. > > > > > > > > To me unconsciousness is the natural state or dimension > > > > of awareness, and consciousness is more like the fart > > > > in the elevator. And yes, the existence of " things " , real > > > > or illusory, is the play-dough work of consciousness. > > > > > > > > The real meat of your comment is the last sentence, > > > > though. It is as if you are saying that when consciousness > > > > goes into a kind of comma due to a relaxation and giving > > > > up of its obsessive-compulsive tendencies there is a kind > > > > of " blank on the screen " (speaking metaphorically) and > > > > in the " absence " of the glitches/shit-brickbats thrown up > > > > by consciousness... there is what could be called an > > > > *artifact *of the system's own processing... a " sensation " > > > > amounting to a kind of buzz... and not knowing what to > > > > call it one might call it " nothingness " . It could also be > > > > referenced via other terms... maybe " presence " , or > > > > " light " , or ... Any serious-taking of such terms amounts > > > > to consciousness re-entering the stage as it tries to > > > > take up such topics and make something of them > > > > (seems the mischief of consciousness is perpetually > > > > of the " make something of <whatever> " variety). > > > > > > > > To sum up, it seems that " nothingness " is an attempt > > > > to refer to an " *absence* of the glitches/shit-brickbats > > > > thrown up by consciousness " , which is not some kind > > > > of profound " metaphysical something " but just an effectively > > > > metaphorical/poetic reference to the " absence " of the > > > > conscious mind's continual yadda-yadda bull-shit-stream. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > D: The absence as never-having-had-any-reality of divisions based on the > > > past and memory. > > > > > > The end of any anchor found in so-called knowledge and accumulation of > > > experiences. > > > > > > B: I like this " end of any anchor " notion. > > > > And that's what " knowledge " is, come to think of it, an established > > baseline, a *reference frame*. > > > > And what is so inconceivable to most everyone is absence of any > > reference frame. > > > > What absence of any reference frame means is learning to > > live without guidance of a " mind " , to live without guidelines, > > without compass and starmap. > > > > > > Bill > > > > Because in fact there is not any *reference frame* in the known - except the > > conviction that there is. > > -geo- > > " in fact " there is no reference frame? > > what fact are you referring to? > > - d - what are you talking about. if you know that.. then you MUST know what he's talking about.. in order to ask that question. are you just posting to post again..and again..and again? we thought so. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , Marc <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > Ah, thanks for reminding the author! > > > The expression " it is an unknowing " about " " meant that it is not subject > > > to > > > knowledge - or any > > > referring to it, for the case. The expression " nonetheless it is all > > > knowing > > > and much more " meant > > > that any and all knowledge - or any thing, event, for the case - is known > > > only by it. It is the only > > > knower of any known. > > > -geo- > > > > " (...) all knowledge (...) is known only by it. " > > > > It? Unknowing? Is the known known by unknowing? > > -lene- > > > > Only the absolute unknon is the knower of the known. Ha...how strange...but > > true. > > -geo- > > > > Is unknowing the only knower of any known? > > > > What do you mean? > > > > -Lene > > > > Not unknowing but the unknown. Follow the analogy: > > - Things are because there is no-thing > > - Time because of timeless > > -Space becasue of the space-less. > > and... > > - The known because of the unknown. > > -geo- > > > > > > and also... > > > > " geo " because of the unknown > > > > and then also... > > > > ignorance because of geo... > > > > etc > > > > > > lol > > > Yup, because of, because of. > > It is funny. > > - D - that's not. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Tuesday, February 02, 2010 6:20 PM Re: Nothingness' Koan Nisargadatta , Bill Rishel <illusyn wrote: > > On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 10:54 AM, geo <inandor wrote: > > > > > > > > - > > Bill Rishel > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, February 02, 2010 4:38 PM > > Re: Re: Nothingness' Koan > > > > On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 4:24 AM, geo <inandor wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > Bill Rishel > > > Nisargadatta > > > Tuesday, February 02, 2010 7:48 AM > > > Re: Re: Nothingness' Koan > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 9:33 AM, Tim G. <fewtch wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The notion of " nothingness " , in any ontological sense, is > > > > > > a philosophical muddle. But it can still be a useful idea > > > > > > when it is seen as merely an idea, and not at as *reference > > > > > > to something* (urr, nothing). > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > Yes, there's isn't any attempt to be referring to something. > > > > > > > > > > Hence, it's epistemological rather than ontological. > > > > > > > > > > Has to do with the limitation of knowing, and of the known. > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree. > > > > > > > > This nothingness is not " non-being " . > > > > > > > > It's more of an unknowing. > > > > > > > > > > For me there is no " this nothingness " ... > > > For me there is no " This " > > > > > > For me there is no anything, not even " me " ... > > > > > > Just an FYI, though so what, of course. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > Ah..for me there is everything, this and that - for obviously they > > > have > > > been > > > referred to, just like me as a thought. > > > -geo- > > > > > > > so you take words seriously > > > > for me they are like the saliva I now swallow... > > > > their significance has no duration. > > > > Bill > > > > Saliva is real as any pattern of awareness...of emptiness...of > nothingness. > > Patterns have a short or not so short duration, like words. > > I am just trying to say that " nothing is " and " things are as their > > nature " > > is the same. > > Useless to toss this two concepts around as if some absolute. > > The false is real as false. > > -geo- > > > > the breath moving my lungs this moment > has no duration *as a pattern*... > > patterns and duration are a bother > > who needs them? > > Bill exactly. no need, no greed. - d - No need for that -geo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Bill Rishel <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 9:33 AM, Tim G. <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The notion of " nothingness " , in any ontological sense, is > > > > > > a philosophical muddle. But it can still be a useful idea > > > > > > when it is seen as merely an idea, and not at as *reference > > > > > > to something* (urr, nothing). > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > Yes, there's isn't any attempt to be referring to something. > > > > > > > > > > Hence, it's epistemological rather than ontological. > > > > > > > > > > Has to do with the limitation of knowing, and of the known. > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree. > > > > > > > > This nothingness is not " non-being " . > > > > > > > > It's more of an unknowing. > > > > > > > > > > For me there is no " this nothingness " ... > > > For me there is no " This " > > > > > > For me there is no anything, not even " me " ... > > > > > > Just an FYI, though so what, of course. > > > > > > Bill > > > > Then why do you keep saying " for me " (above) ... > > > > ? > > > > Who or what is this " for me " you're referring to? > > > > And to whom are you providing this information > > > > about what is true " for me " ... whom are you letting > > know that for you there is no me? > > > > - D - > > > why that's " Special Bill " ! > > King of the Wild Frontier. > > LOL! > > .b b.b. Wild Bill Hiccup? - d - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Tuesday, February 02, 2010 6:16 PM Re: Nothingness' Koan Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > Bill Rishel > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, February 02, 2010 4:38 PM > Re: Re: Nothingness' Koan > > > > On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 4:24 AM, geo <inandor wrote: > > > > > > > > - > > Bill Rishel > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, February 02, 2010 7:48 AM > > Re: Re: Nothingness' Koan > > > > On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 9:33 AM, Tim G. <fewtch wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > The notion of " nothingness " , in any ontological sense, is > > > > > a philosophical muddle. But it can still be a useful idea > > > > > when it is seen as merely an idea, and not at as *reference > > > > > to something* (urr, nothing). > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > Yes, there's isn't any attempt to be referring to something. > > > > > > > > Hence, it's epistemological rather than ontological. > > > > > > > > Has to do with the limitation of knowing, and of the known. > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > I agree. > > > > > > This nothingness is not " non-being " . > > > > > > It's more of an unknowing. > > > > > > > For me there is no " this nothingness " ... > > For me there is no " This " > > > > For me there is no anything, not even " me " ... > > > > Just an FYI, though so what, of course. > > > > Bill > > > > Ah..for me there is everything, this and that - for obviously they have > > been > > referred to, just like me as a thought. > > -geo- > > > > so you take words seriously > > for me they are like the saliva I now swallow... > > their significance has no duration. > > Bill > > Saliva is real as any pattern of awareness...of emptiness...of > nothingness. > Patterns have a short or not so short duration, like words. > I am just trying to say that " nothing is " and " things are as their nature " > is the same. > Useless to toss this two concepts around as if some absolute. > The false is real as false. > -geo- How can you tell the duration of a pattern, unless you apply a pattern to a pattern? ??? Patterns, patterns, everywhere ... Or not. - D - Patterns or not................................................................. I said it is useless. -geo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, February 02, 2010 6:00 PM > Re: Nothingness' Koan > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > Bill Rishel > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, February 02, 2010 7:48 AM > > Re: Re: Nothingness' Koan > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 9:33 AM, Tim G. <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > The notion of " nothingness " , in any ontological sense, is > > > > > a philosophical muddle. But it can still be a useful idea > > > > > when it is seen as merely an idea, and not at as *reference > > > > > to something* (urr, nothing). > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > Yes, there's isn't any attempt to be referring to something. > > > > > > > > Hence, it's epistemological rather than ontological. > > > > > > > > Has to do with the limitation of knowing, and of the known. > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > I agree. > > > > > > This nothingness is not " non-being " . > > > > > > It's more of an unknowing. > > > > > > > For me there is no " this nothingness " ... > > For me there is no " This " > > > > For me there is no anything, not even " me " ... > > > > Just an FYI, though so what, of course. > > > > Bill > > > > Ah..for me there is everything, this and that - for obviously they have > > been > > referred to, just like me as a thought. > > -geo- > > the thought is gone. > > - d - > > Gone as all thoughts go. > -geo- where do they come from before they go? what is the manner of their going..or coming. what are you two nitwits smoking? ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > dan330033 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Monday, February 01, 2010 11:48 PM > > > Re: Nothingness' Koan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > cerosoul > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Monday, February 01, 2010 5:55 PM > > > > Re: Nothingness' Koan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > Tim G. > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Monday, February 01, 2010 2:33 PM > > > > > Re: Nothingness' Koan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The notion of " nothingness " , in any ontological sense, is > > > > > > > a philosophical muddle. But it can still be a useful idea > > > > > > > when it is seen as merely an idea, and not at as *reference > > > > > > > to something* (urr, nothing). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, there's isn't any attempt to be referring to something. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hence, it's epistemological rather than ontological. > > > > > > > > > > > > Has to do with the limitation of knowing, and of the known. > > > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree. > > > > > > > > > > This nothingness is not " non-being " . > > > > > > > > > > It's more of an unknowing. > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > It is an unknowing " about " . Nonetheless it is all knowing and much more. > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > P: Haha! Geo wants his mommy! Suck your thumb, fool. > > > > > > > > geo> That is what is called " trying to escape to the left " , but to no > > > > avail.....there is a fence there. > > > > Remember: you may fool some....others...... no. The ones that really > > > > smile. > > > > > > D: Not seeing any " escape " in that comment. > > > > > > It is not " about. " Period. You can't say what it is or isn't. > > > > > > geo: is that what you say? > > > > who cares? > > > i dunno..does he? > > who's who? > > .b b.b. Black and blue ... And who knows which is which and who is who? Up and down ... And in the end, it's only round and round and round. - d - P.S. Not paying any royalties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " <lschwabe@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > cerosoul > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Monday, February 01, 2010 5:55 PM > > > > > Re: Nothingness' Koan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > Tim G. > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > Monday, February 01, 2010 2:33 PM > > > > > > Re: Nothingness' Koan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The notion of " nothingness " , in any ontological sense, is > > > > > > > > a philosophical muddle. But it can still be a useful idea > > > > > > > > when it is seen as merely an idea, and not at as *reference > > > > > > > > to something* (urr, nothing). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, there's isn't any attempt to be referring to something. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hence, it's epistemological rather than ontological. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Has to do with the limitation of knowing, and of the known. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree. > > > > > > > > > > > > This nothingness is not " non-being " . > > > > > > > > > > > > It's more of an unknowing. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > > > It is an unknowing " about " . Nonetheless it is all knowing and much more. > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > P: Haha! Geo wants his mommy! Suck your thumb, fool. > > > > > > > > > > geo> That is what is called " trying to escape to the left " , but to no > > > > > avail.....there is a fence there. > > > > > Remember: you may fool some....others...... no. The ones that really smile. > > > > > > > > D: Not seeing any " escape " in that comment. > > > > > > > > It is not " about. " Period. You can't say what it is or isn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course. Unknowing about is an oxymoron. > > > > > > -L- > > > > Good pointless point! > > > > - D - > > > no point in saying that. > > just dabbo having to get a word in as usual. > > .b b.b. bobby, you can have the last word. here it is: last just remember: if the fix is in, then the word is out. - d - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 - dan330033 Nisargadatta Tuesday, February 02, 2010 6:26 PM Re: Nothingness' Koan Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > dan330033 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, February 02, 2010 5:59 PM > Re: Nothingness' Koan > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > Bill Rishel > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, February 02, 2010 7:13 AM > > Re: Re: Nothingness' Koan > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 3:44 PM, dan330033 <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Bill Rishel <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 8:44 AM, cerosoul <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The word " nothingness " is a tarbaby, a gleam in a philosopher's > > > > > > eye. And " nothing " more. > > > > > > > > > > > > The notion of " nothingness " , in any ontological sense, is > > > > > > a philosophical muddle. But it can still be a useful idea > > > > > > when it is seen as merely an idea, and not at as *reference > > > > > > to something* (urr, nothing). > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > P: No thing exist as real nor illusion in unconsciousness. In > > > > > this sense, nothigness is a synonym for unconsciousness. Our > > > > > idea of nothingness arises from an irresolvable contradiction: > > > > > our awareness of the total absence of everything when unconscious. > > > > > > > > > > How that strikes you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > B: It's a cool idea... my first impression. > > > > > > > > To me unconsciousness is the natural state or dimension > > > > of awareness, and consciousness is more like the fart > > > > in the elevator. And yes, the existence of " things " , real > > > > or illusory, is the play-dough work of consciousness. > > > > > > > > The real meat of your comment is the last sentence, > > > > though. It is as if you are saying that when consciousness > > > > goes into a kind of comma due to a relaxation and giving > > > > up of its obsessive-compulsive tendencies there is a kind > > > > of " blank on the screen " (speaking metaphorically) and > > > > in the " absence " of the glitches/shit-brickbats thrown up > > > > by consciousness... there is what could be called an > > > > *artifact *of the system's own processing... a " sensation " > > > > amounting to a kind of buzz... and not knowing what to > > > > call it one might call it " nothingness " . It could also be > > > > referenced via other terms... maybe " presence " , or > > > > " light " , or ... Any serious-taking of such terms amounts > > > > to consciousness re-entering the stage as it tries to > > > > take up such topics and make something of them > > > > (seems the mischief of consciousness is perpetually > > > > of the " make something of <whatever> " variety). > > > > > > > > To sum up, it seems that " nothingness " is an attempt > > > > to refer to an " *absence* of the glitches/shit-brickbats > > > > thrown up by consciousness " , which is not some kind > > > > of profound " metaphysical something " but just an effectively > > > > metaphorical/poetic reference to the " absence " of the > > > > conscious mind's continual yadda-yadda bull-shit-stream. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > D: The absence as never-having-had-any-reality of divisions based on > > > the > > > past and memory. > > > > > > The end of any anchor found in so-called knowledge and accumulation of > > > experiences. > > > > > > B: I like this " end of any anchor " notion. > > > > And that's what " knowledge " is, come to think of it, an established > > baseline, a *reference frame*. > > > > And what is so inconceivable to most everyone is absence of any > > reference frame. > > > > What absence of any reference frame means is learning to > > live without guidance of a " mind " , to live without guidelines, > > without compass and starmap. > > > > > > Bill > > > > Because in fact there is not any *reference frame* in the known - except > > the > > conviction that there is. > > -geo- > > " in fact " there is no reference frame? > > what fact are you referring to? > > - d - > > Rephrazing: Because there is not any *reference frame* in the known - > except > the > conviction that there is. > -geo- And therefore, the " known " is ... unknown. - D - Sure. There is nothing known. ;>/ -geo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The notion of " nothingness " , in any ontological sense, is > > > > > > > > a philosophical muddle. But it can still be a useful idea > > > > > > > > when it is seen as merely an idea, and not at as *reference > > > > > > > > to something* (urr, nothing). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, there's isn't any attempt to be referring to something. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hence, it's epistemological rather than ontological. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Has to do with the limitation of knowing, and of the known. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree. > > > > > > > > > > > > This nothingness is not " non-being " . > > > > > > > > > > > > It's more of an unknowing. > > > > > > > > > > Unknown, not in the known - can't be analyzed or imparted. > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > > > are you trying to identify the unknown dabbo? > > > > > > > > that's departed. > > > > > > > > .b b.b > > > > > > the dead bury the dead. > > > > > > see how they run. > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > you're the one running dabbo. > > > > running from the fact that you are idiotically.. > > > > trying to identify the unknown. > > > > and you put forth a pathetic attempt at humor.. > > > > as a pitiable technique of trying to evade admitting that fact. > > > > won't work sport. > > > > .b b.b. > > > work? > > now he's trying to get something to work. > > hey, maybe this one will work for you ... > > nah, not a snowball's chance in hell. > > - d - you're very insecure dabbo. nothing works for you. so why the hell should you work huh? LOL! ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > Bill Rishel > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, February 02, 2010 4:38 PM > > Re: Re: Nothingness' Koan > > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 4:24 AM, geo <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > Bill Rishel > > > Nisargadatta > > > Tuesday, February 02, 2010 7:48 AM > > > Re: Re: Nothingness' Koan > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 9:33 AM, Tim G. <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The notion of " nothingness " , in any ontological sense, is > > > > > > a philosophical muddle. But it can still be a useful idea > > > > > > when it is seen as merely an idea, and not at as *reference > > > > > > to something* (urr, nothing). > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > Yes, there's isn't any attempt to be referring to something. > > > > > > > > > > Hence, it's epistemological rather than ontological. > > > > > > > > > > Has to do with the limitation of knowing, and of the known. > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree. > > > > > > > > This nothingness is not " non-being " . > > > > > > > > It's more of an unknowing. > > > > > > > > > > For me there is no " this nothingness " ... > > > For me there is no " This " > > > > > > For me there is no anything, not even " me " ... > > > > > > Just an FYI, though so what, of course. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > Ah..for me there is everything, this and that - for obviously they have > > > been > > > referred to, just like me as a thought. > > > -geo- > > > > > > > so you take words seriously > > > > for me they are like the saliva I now swallow... > > > > their significance has no duration. > > > > Bill > > > > Saliva is real as any pattern of awareness...of emptiness...of nothingness. > > Patterns have a short or not so short duration, like words. > > I am just trying to say that " nothing is " and " things are as their nature " > > is the same. > > Useless to toss this two concepts around as if some absolute. > > The false is real as false. > > -geo- > > How can you tell the duration of a pattern, unless you apply a pattern to a pattern? > > ??? > > Patterns, patterns, everywhere ... > > Or not. > > - D - you certainly display a pattern. but baba is to nice to say what that is. you can thank me later. but when you do i'll just throw it back in your face. we mustn't change patterns right? ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > cerosoul > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > Monday, February 01, 2010 5:55 PM > > > > > > Re: Nothingness' Koan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > Tim G. > > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > > Monday, February 01, 2010 2:33 PM > > > > > > > Re: Nothingness' Koan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The notion of " nothingness " , in any ontological sense, is > > > > > > > > > a philosophical muddle. But it can still be a useful idea > > > > > > > > > when it is seen as merely an idea, and not at as *reference > > > > > > > > > to something* (urr, nothing). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, there's isn't any attempt to be referring to something. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hence, it's epistemological rather than ontological. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Has to do with the limitation of knowing, and of the known. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This nothingness is not " non-being " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's more of an unknowing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is an unknowing " about " . Nonetheless it is all knowing and much more. > > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > P: Haha! Geo wants his mommy! Suck your thumb, fool. > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> That is what is called " trying to escape to the left " , but to no > > > > > > avail.....there is a fence there. > > > > > > Remember: you may fool some....others...... no. The ones that really smile. > > > > > > > > > > D: Not seeing any " escape " in that comment. > > > > > > > > > > It is not " about. " Period. You can't say what it is or isn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > it doesn't matter if you can see an escape. > > > > > > > > you can't see a lot of things dabbo. > > > > > > > > no offense. > > > > > > > > and no defense will be tolerated. > > > > > > > > .b b.b. > > > > > > i can't see anything, babbo. > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > cry me a river dabbo. > > > > your slobbering sob story is not to be tolerated. > > > > it's a weak defense despite it's actuality. > > > > but it's a defense nonetheless. > > > > didn't you read the orders above? > > > > .b b.b. > > you believe there is a reader? > > - d - do you believe you can ask that without having read what prompted it? so you think you're that different huh? rots of ruck dabbo. LOL! ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > Bill Rishel > > > Nisargadatta > > > Tuesday, February 02, 2010 7:13 AM > > > Re: Re: Nothingness' Koan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 3:44 PM, dan330033 <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Bill Rishel <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 8:44 AM, cerosoul <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The word " nothingness " is a tarbaby, a gleam in a philosopher's > > > > > > > eye. And " nothing " more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The notion of " nothingness " , in any ontological sense, is > > > > > > > a philosophical muddle. But it can still be a useful idea > > > > > > > when it is seen as merely an idea, and not at as *reference > > > > > > > to something* (urr, nothing). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > P: No thing exist as real nor illusion in unconsciousness. In > > > > > > this sense, nothigness is a synonym for unconsciousness. Our > > > > > > idea of nothingness arises from an irresolvable contradiction: > > > > > > our awareness of the total absence of everything when unconscious. > > > > > > > > > > > > How that strikes you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > B: It's a cool idea... my first impression. > > > > > > > > > > To me unconsciousness is the natural state or dimension > > > > > of awareness, and consciousness is more like the fart > > > > > in the elevator. And yes, the existence of " things " , real > > > > > or illusory, is the play-dough work of consciousness. > > > > > > > > > > The real meat of your comment is the last sentence, > > > > > though. It is as if you are saying that when consciousness > > > > > goes into a kind of comma due to a relaxation and giving > > > > > up of its obsessive-compulsive tendencies there is a kind > > > > > of " blank on the screen " (speaking metaphorically) and > > > > > in the " absence " of the glitches/shit-brickbats thrown up > > > > > by consciousness... there is what could be called an > > > > > *artifact *of the system's own processing... a " sensation " > > > > > amounting to a kind of buzz... and not knowing what to > > > > > call it one might call it " nothingness " . It could also be > > > > > referenced via other terms... maybe " presence " , or > > > > > " light " , or ... Any serious-taking of such terms amounts > > > > > to consciousness re-entering the stage as it tries to > > > > > take up such topics and make something of them > > > > > (seems the mischief of consciousness is perpetually > > > > > of the " make something of <whatever> " variety). > > > > > > > > > > To sum up, it seems that " nothingness " is an attempt > > > > > to refer to an " *absence* of the glitches/shit-brickbats > > > > > thrown up by consciousness " , which is not some kind > > > > > of profound " metaphysical something " but just an effectively > > > > > metaphorical/poetic reference to the " absence " of the > > > > > conscious mind's continual yadda-yadda bull-shit-stream. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > D: The absence as never-having-had-any-reality of divisions based on the > > > > past and memory. > > > > > > > > The end of any anchor found in so-called knowledge and accumulation of > > > > experiences. > > > > > > > > > B: I like this " end of any anchor " notion. > > > > > > And that's what " knowledge " is, come to think of it, an established > > > baseline, a *reference frame*. > > > > > > And what is so inconceivable to most everyone is absence of any > > > reference frame. > > > > > > What absence of any reference frame means is learning to > > > live without guidance of a " mind " , to live without guidelines, > > > without compass and starmap. > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > Because in fact there is not any *reference frame* in the known - except the > > > conviction that there is. > > > -geo- > > > > " in fact " there is no reference frame? > > > > what fact are you referring to? > > > > - d - > > > what are you talking about. > > if you know that.. > > then you MUST know what he's talking about.. > > in order to ask that question. > > are you just posting to post again..and again..and again? > > we thought so. > > .b b.b. posting to post. breathing to breathe. i'm a breatharian, dude. except when I'm eating a hamburger. - d - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > BobN > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, February 02, 2010 6:08 PM > Re: Nothingness' Koan > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Bill Rishel <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > The whole manifestation is being acknowledged, seen, " known " , > > > aware-ed...just as it is. > > > > > > -geo- > > > > the " whole manifestation " ....???? > > > > what are you talking about? > > > > never seen one > > > > Bill > > and you never will. > > unless you feel that you're special. > > .b b.b. > > Nonesense. Seeing the whole as one is what is. To be special you need at > least two. > -geo- take a clue geoparado. that's what i was saying. have some warm milk kid. you need to calm yourself down. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , Bill Rishel <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 10:54 AM, geo <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > Bill Rishel > > > Nisargadatta > > > Tuesday, February 02, 2010 4:38 PM > > > Re: Re: Nothingness' Koan > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 4:24 AM, geo <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > Bill Rishel > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Tuesday, February 02, 2010 7:48 AM > > > > Re: Re: Nothingness' Koan > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 9:33 AM, Tim G. <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The notion of " nothingness " , in any ontological sense, is > > > > > > > a philosophical muddle. But it can still be a useful idea > > > > > > > when it is seen as merely an idea, and not at as *reference > > > > > > > to something* (urr, nothing). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, there's isn't any attempt to be referring to something. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hence, it's epistemological rather than ontological. > > > > > > > > > > > > Has to do with the limitation of knowing, and of the known. > > > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree. > > > > > > > > > > This nothingness is not " non-being " . > > > > > > > > > > It's more of an unknowing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > For me there is no " this nothingness " ... > > > > For me there is no " This " > > > > > > > > For me there is no anything, not even " me " ... > > > > > > > > Just an FYI, though so what, of course. > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > Ah..for me there is everything, this and that - for obviously they have > > > > been > > > > referred to, just like me as a thought. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > so you take words seriously > > > > > > for me they are like the saliva I now swallow... > > > > > > their significance has no duration. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > Saliva is real as any pattern of awareness...of emptiness...of > > nothingness. > > > Patterns have a short or not so short duration, like words. > > > I am just trying to say that " nothing is " and " things are as their nature " > > > is the same. > > > Useless to toss this two concepts around as if some absolute. > > > The false is real as false. > > > -geo- > > > > > > > the breath moving my lungs this moment > > has no duration *as a pattern*... > > > > patterns and duration are a bother > > > > who needs them? > > > > Bill > > exactly. > > no need, no greed. > > - d - just another creed. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is an unknowing " about " . Nonetheless it is all knowing and much more. > > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > P: Haha! Geo wants his mommy! Suck your thumb, fool. > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> That is what is called " trying to escape to the left " , but to > no > > > > > > avail.....there is a fence there. > > > > > > > > > > It's interesting he said what he did. > > > > > > > > > > I don't see anything childish in your statement above, e.g. " it' is an unknowing about... " > > > > > > > > > > The feeling of childishness must be inside Pete. > > > > > > > > > > He certainly didn't get it from your words. > > > > > > > > Pete addressed the attempt to find something to hold onto, and used the metaphor of a child looking to hold onto a breast or a thumb. Trying to find something that can be known about this to say what it is. > > > > > > P: Exactly! > > > > > > ROFLOL! > > > > i guess you did need the help then. > > > > hahahahahahahaha! > > > > .b b.b. > > if a turd drops in the toilet > > and bobby didn't hear it, > > did he still drop? > > - d - is dabbo getting cranky? or is he just beginning to get a whiff of his own material? toilet humor is usually the last resort of street urchins.. and dumb ass wanna be pious punks. i guess you're there dabbo. the end of your rope and the beginning of even more stupid jokes. ROFLOL! ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > - > > dan330033 > > Nisargadatta > > Tuesday, February 02, 2010 5:59 PM > > Re: Nothingness' Koan > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > Bill Rishel > > > Nisargadatta > > > Tuesday, February 02, 2010 7:13 AM > > > Re: Re: Nothingness' Koan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 3:44 PM, dan330033 <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Bill Rishel <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 8:44 AM, cerosoul <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The word " nothingness " is a tarbaby, a gleam in a philosopher's > > > > > > > eye. And " nothing " more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The notion of " nothingness " , in any ontological sense, is > > > > > > > a philosophical muddle. But it can still be a useful idea > > > > > > > when it is seen as merely an idea, and not at as *reference > > > > > > > to something* (urr, nothing). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > P: No thing exist as real nor illusion in unconsciousness. In > > > > > > this sense, nothigness is a synonym for unconsciousness. Our > > > > > > idea of nothingness arises from an irresolvable contradiction: > > > > > > our awareness of the total absence of everything when unconscious. > > > > > > > > > > > > How that strikes you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > B: It's a cool idea... my first impression. > > > > > > > > > > To me unconsciousness is the natural state or dimension > > > > > of awareness, and consciousness is more like the fart > > > > > in the elevator. And yes, the existence of " things " , real > > > > > or illusory, is the play-dough work of consciousness. > > > > > > > > > > The real meat of your comment is the last sentence, > > > > > though. It is as if you are saying that when consciousness > > > > > goes into a kind of comma due to a relaxation and giving > > > > > up of its obsessive-compulsive tendencies there is a kind > > > > > of " blank on the screen " (speaking metaphorically) and > > > > > in the " absence " of the glitches/shit-brickbats thrown up > > > > > by consciousness... there is what could be called an > > > > > *artifact *of the system's own processing... a " sensation " > > > > > amounting to a kind of buzz... and not knowing what to > > > > > call it one might call it " nothingness " . It could also be > > > > > referenced via other terms... maybe " presence " , or > > > > > " light " , or ... Any serious-taking of such terms amounts > > > > > to consciousness re-entering the stage as it tries to > > > > > take up such topics and make something of them > > > > > (seems the mischief of consciousness is perpetually > > > > > of the " make something of <whatever> " variety). > > > > > > > > > > To sum up, it seems that " nothingness " is an attempt > > > > > to refer to an " *absence* of the glitches/shit-brickbats > > > > > thrown up by consciousness " , which is not some kind > > > > > of profound " metaphysical something " but just an effectively > > > > > metaphorical/poetic reference to the " absence " of the > > > > > conscious mind's continual yadda-yadda bull-shit-stream. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > D: The absence as never-having-had-any-reality of divisions based on the > > > > past and memory. > > > > > > > > The end of any anchor found in so-called knowledge and accumulation of > > > > experiences. > > > > > > > > > B: I like this " end of any anchor " notion. > > > > > > And that's what " knowledge " is, come to think of it, an established > > > baseline, a *reference frame*. > > > > > > And what is so inconceivable to most everyone is absence of any > > > reference frame. > > > > > > What absence of any reference frame means is learning to > > > live without guidance of a " mind " , to live without guidelines, > > > without compass and starmap. > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > Because in fact there is not any *reference frame* in the known - except > > > the > > > conviction that there is. > > > -geo- > > > > " in fact " there is no reference frame? > > > > what fact are you referring to? > > > > - d - > > > > Rephrazing: Because there is not any *reference frame* in the known - except > > the > > conviction that there is. > > -geo- > > And therefore, the " known " is ... > > unknown. > > - D - and you know this? LOL! ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > dan330033 > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Monday, February 01, 2010 11:48 PM > > > > Re: Nothingness' Koan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > cerosoul > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Monday, February 01, 2010 5:55 PM > > > > > Re: Nothingness' Koan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > Tim G. > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > Monday, February 01, 2010 2:33 PM > > > > > > Re: Nothingness' Koan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The notion of " nothingness " , in any ontological sense, is > > > > > > > > a philosophical muddle. But it can still be a useful idea > > > > > > > > when it is seen as merely an idea, and not at as *reference > > > > > > > > to something* (urr, nothing). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, there's isn't any attempt to be referring to something. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hence, it's epistemological rather than ontological. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Has to do with the limitation of knowing, and of the known. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree. > > > > > > > > > > > > This nothingness is not " non-being " . > > > > > > > > > > > > It's more of an unknowing. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > > > It is an unknowing " about " . Nonetheless it is all knowing and much more. > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > P: Haha! Geo wants his mommy! Suck your thumb, fool. > > > > > > > > > > geo> That is what is called " trying to escape to the left " , but to no > > > > > avail.....there is a fence there. > > > > > Remember: you may fool some....others...... no. The ones that really > > > > > smile. > > > > > > > > D: Not seeing any " escape " in that comment. > > > > > > > > It is not " about. " Period. You can't say what it is or isn't. > > > > > > > > geo: is that what you say? > > > > > > who cares? > > > > > > i dunno..does he? > > > > who's who? > > > > .b b.b. > > > Black and blue ... > > And who knows which is which and who is who? > > Up and down ... > > And in the end, it's only round and round and round. > > - d - > > P.S. Not paying any royalties maybe your pal " who " cares. i don't. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lene " <lschwabe@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > cerosoul > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > Monday, February 01, 2010 5:55 PM > > > > > > Re: Nothingness' Koan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > Tim G. > > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > > Monday, February 01, 2010 2:33 PM > > > > > > > Re: Nothingness' Koan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The notion of " nothingness " , in any ontological sense, is > > > > > > > > > a philosophical muddle. But it can still be a useful idea > > > > > > > > > when it is seen as merely an idea, and not at as *reference > > > > > > > > > to something* (urr, nothing). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, there's isn't any attempt to be referring to something. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hence, it's epistemological rather than ontological. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Has to do with the limitation of knowing, and of the known. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This nothingness is not " non-being " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's more of an unknowing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is an unknowing " about " . Nonetheless it is all knowing and much more. > > > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > P: Haha! Geo wants his mommy! Suck your thumb, fool. > > > > > > > > > > > > geo> That is what is called " trying to escape to the left " , but to no > > > > > > avail.....there is a fence there. > > > > > > Remember: you may fool some....others...... no. The ones that really smile. > > > > > > > > > > D: Not seeing any " escape " in that comment. > > > > > > > > > > It is not " about. " Period. You can't say what it is or isn't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course. Unknowing about is an oxymoron. > > > > > > > > -L- > > > > > > Good pointless point! > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > no point in saying that. > > > > just dabbo having to get a word in as usual. > > > > .b b.b. > > > bobby, you can have the last word. > > here it is: > > last > > just remember: > > if the fix is in, then the word is out. > > - d - so this " having the last word " is still with you. it's still a concern for you. it matters to you. how spiritual dabbo. i'm so very unimpressed. of course things never change. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Marc <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Ah, thanks for reminding the author! > > > > > The expression " it is an unknowing " about " " meant that it is not subject > > > > > to > > > > > knowledge - or any > > > > > referring to it, for the case. The expression " nonetheless it is all > > > > > knowing > > > > > and much more " meant > > > > > that any and all knowledge - or any thing, event, for the case - is known > > > > > only by it. It is the only > > > > > knower of any known. > > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > " (...) all knowledge (...) is known only by it. " > > > > > > > > It? Unknowing? Is the known known by unknowing? > > > > -lene- > > > > > > > > Only the absolute unknon is the knower of the known. Ha...how strange...but > > > > true. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > Is unknowing the only knower of any known? > > > > > > > > What do you mean? > > > > > > > > -Lene > > > > > > > > Not unknowing but the unknown. Follow the analogy: > > > > - Things are because there is no-thing > > > > - Time because of timeless > > > > -Space becasue of the space-less. > > > > and... > > > > - The known because of the unknown. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > > > > > > > and also... > > > > > > > > " geo " because of the unknown > > > > > > > > and then also... > > > > > > > > ignorance because of geo... > > > > > > > > etc > > > > > > > > > > > > lol > > > > > > > > > Yup, because of, because of. > > > > > > It is funny. > > > > > > - D - > > > > > > that's not. > > > > .b b.b. > > > it's all not. > > are you in a knot? > > no sweat. > > the knot is not. > > - d - dabbo.. as a child were you often times put into talent contests.. that you had no talent for? did you derive some sort of sick pleasure in embarrassing yourself? there must be some reason that you continue.. trying to be wise though you are not.. trying to be funny though you are not.. trying to speak spiritually though you are not. i mean i certainly enjoy the laughs.. but i do just feel for you sometimes: a bizarre mix of concern and contempt. i'd try to empathize with you but that would be just too funny. ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " BobN " <Roberibus111@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > Bill Rishel > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Tuesday, February 02, 2010 7:13 AM > > > > Re: Re: Nothingness' Koan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 3:44 PM, dan330033 <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Bill Rishel <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 8:44 AM, cerosoul <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The word " nothingness " is a tarbaby, a gleam in a philosopher's > > > > > > > > eye. And " nothing " more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The notion of " nothingness " , in any ontological sense, is > > > > > > > > a philosophical muddle. But it can still be a useful idea > > > > > > > > when it is seen as merely an idea, and not at as *reference > > > > > > > > to something* (urr, nothing). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P: No thing exist as real nor illusion in unconsciousness. In > > > > > > > this sense, nothigness is a synonym for unconsciousness. Our > > > > > > > idea of nothingness arises from an irresolvable contradiction: > > > > > > > our awareness of the total absence of everything when unconscious. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How that strikes you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > B: It's a cool idea... my first impression. > > > > > > > > > > > > To me unconsciousness is the natural state or dimension > > > > > > of awareness, and consciousness is more like the fart > > > > > > in the elevator. And yes, the existence of " things " , real > > > > > > or illusory, is the play-dough work of consciousness. > > > > > > > > > > > > The real meat of your comment is the last sentence, > > > > > > though. It is as if you are saying that when consciousness > > > > > > goes into a kind of comma due to a relaxation and giving > > > > > > up of its obsessive-compulsive tendencies there is a kind > > > > > > of " blank on the screen " (speaking metaphorically) and > > > > > > in the " absence " of the glitches/shit-brickbats thrown up > > > > > > by consciousness... there is what could be called an > > > > > > *artifact *of the system's own processing... a " sensation " > > > > > > amounting to a kind of buzz... and not knowing what to > > > > > > call it one might call it " nothingness " . It could also be > > > > > > referenced via other terms... maybe " presence " , or > > > > > > " light " , or ... Any serious-taking of such terms amounts > > > > > > to consciousness re-entering the stage as it tries to > > > > > > take up such topics and make something of them > > > > > > (seems the mischief of consciousness is perpetually > > > > > > of the " make something of <whatever> " variety). > > > > > > > > > > > > To sum up, it seems that " nothingness " is an attempt > > > > > > to refer to an " *absence* of the glitches/shit-brickbats > > > > > > thrown up by consciousness " , which is not some kind > > > > > > of profound " metaphysical something " but just an effectively > > > > > > metaphorical/poetic reference to the " absence " of the > > > > > > conscious mind's continual yadda-yadda bull-shit-stream. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > D: The absence as never-having-had-any-reality of divisions based on the > > > > > past and memory. > > > > > > > > > > The end of any anchor found in so-called knowledge and accumulation of > > > > > experiences. > > > > > > > > > > > > B: I like this " end of any anchor " notion. > > > > > > > > And that's what " knowledge " is, come to think of it, an established > > > > baseline, a *reference frame*. > > > > > > > > And what is so inconceivable to most everyone is absence of any > > > > reference frame. > > > > > > > > What absence of any reference frame means is learning to > > > > live without guidance of a " mind " , to live without guidelines, > > > > without compass and starmap. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > Because in fact there is not any *reference frame* in the known - except the > > > > conviction that there is. > > > > -geo- > > > > > > " in fact " there is no reference frame? > > > > > > what fact are you referring to? > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > what are you talking about. > > > > if you know that.. > > > > then you MUST know what he's talking about.. > > > > in order to ask that question. > > > > are you just posting to post again..and again..and again? > > > > we thought so. > > > > .b b.b. > > > posting to post. > > breathing to breathe. > > i'm a breatharian, dude. > > except when I'm eating a hamburger. > > - d - oh ho ho. that's a real knee slapper dabbo. sure it is. ..b b.b. 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Guest guest Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Out of 25 posts on this edition of the list, b.b.b. accounts for 76% of them, and d.d.d. = 24%. And the winner is " ". :-)) ~M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Nisargadatta , " Michael Adamson " <adamson wrote: > > > Out of 25 posts on this edition of the list, b.b.b. accounts for 76% of them, and d.d.d. = 24%. And the winner is " " . :-)) > > ~M P: Are you coming to Cosmos Cafe to meet BBB? ) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 - BobN Nisargadatta Tuesday, February 02, 2010 6:52 PM Re: Nothingness' Koan Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > > - > BobN > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, February 02, 2010 6:08 PM > Re: Nothingness' Koan > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Bill Rishel <illusyn@> wrote: > > > > > The whole manifestation is being acknowledged, seen, " known " , > > > aware-ed...just as it is. > > > > > > -geo- > > > > the " whole manifestation " ....???? > > > > what are you talking about? > > > > never seen one > > > > Bill > > and you never will. > > unless you feel that you're special. > > .b b.b. > > Nonesense. Seeing the whole as one is what is. To be special you need at > least two. > -geo- take a clue geoparado. that's what i was saying. have some warm milk kid. you need to calm yourself down. ..b b.b. I cant. I am too excited with your posts. -geo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 Nisargadatta , " Michael Adamson " <adamson wrote: > > > Out of 25 posts on this edition of the list, b.b.b. accounts for 76% of them, and d.d.d. = 24%. And the winner is " " . :-)) > > ~M mikey! for being so attentive. for being such a good counter. for showing us all how busy the business is keeping him! oh those Life Essentials fill his precious moments.. with not much at all it seems. probably don't fill his pockets with much either. but oh! the Freedom!..the Lifestyle!..the Bullshit! hahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaa! SOMEONE must pick up the slack and actually: DO something.. EARN something.. SOMEONE in the family eh mikey? i mean really do and earn real money. not just talk and draw circles...and build the dream scheme. but i bet you do a bang up job at the board... and you most likely look just marvelous darling. the life of the phony is the only life for you huh mikey? does the wife bring in the bacon? or is she as tied up and busy counting posts too. fat chance of that eh Winner? LOL! ..b b.b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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