Guest guest Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 This is not a must.Sri Ramana is ever available for us even though He is not available physically for He is the indwelling spirit in all of us..This is 100% true.Be assured dear devotees.tgr--- On Mon, 3/8/10, aoclery <aoclery wrote:aoclery <aoclery A Living Guru/Mukta is necessary Date: Monday, March 8, 2010, 10:39 AM Namaste, A Living Guru?Mukta is necessary and Why....Jesus, Ramana, Lakshama,Mathru Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.John..14: 6. This is Jesus telling his devotees that they need him physically to achieve reallisation. ..and is a typical Vedanta teaching...Jesus always referred to the Self as the Father....even though he was the Son or Sakti... A Living human Guru is essential for Self Realisation. It is the Self acting as the medium of the Guru which finally destroys the ego and only the human guru can act as the medium. When the guru gives up his body The Self can no longer use him to destroy the devotee's ego...Sri Lakshmana Swamy. The exception .Ramana Maharshi was a very advanced soul and almost completed his sadhana in his previous life. The mind can never eliminate itself without the grace of the Self. The mind is afraid of its own death it will not do anything to endanger its own existence. It is like a thief who poses as a policeman in order to catch himself; the thief will only pretend to catch himself because he ultimately wants to escape.... Lakshmana says If one concentrates on and has devotion towards a dead guru then grace will come from the unmanifest Self and not from the form of the guru. This can take one to an effortless thought free state but it cannot pull the mind into the Self and destroy it...Only a Guru can do this.( A real Mukta Guru with power of diksha and saktipat. 99.99% of Gurus are not Sadguru Muktas..and probably 100% of Western teacher satsang gurus). The mind will engage in sadhana or practise thinking that it wants to destroy itself, but as soon as the mind starts to sink in the Heart, a great fear arises which prevents the mind from completely subsiding. This fear is part of the minds self defence mechanism and you will never overcome it by effort alone. It is because of this that you need a Guru..Mukta Guru...--The Grace of the Guru calms the mind and helps it overcome the fear which otherwise prevent it from completely subsiding. Some people say complete equanimity of mind is Self realisation, but this is not true. This is only a stage one passes through on the way. Cheers Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 , TG Ranganathan <tgranganathan wrote: > > This is not a must.Sri Ramana is ever available for us even though He is not available physically for He is the indwelling spirit in all of us..This is 100% true.Be assured dear devotees.tgr > > --- On Mon, 3/8/10, aoclery <aoclery wrote: > > aoclery <aoclery > A Living Guru/Mukta is necessary > > Monday, March 8, 2010, 10:39 AM > Namaste, > > > > A Living Guru?Mukta is necessary and Why....Jesus, Ramana, Lakshama,Mathru > > > > Jesus answered, " I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.John..14: 6. > > > > This is Jesus telling his devotees that they need him physically to achieve reallisation. ..and is a typical Vedanta teaching...Jesus always referred to the Self as the Father....even though he was the Son or Sakti... > > > > A Living human Guru is essential for Self Realisation. It is the Self acting as the medium of the Guru which finally destroys the ego and only the human guru can act as the medium. When the guru gives up his body The Self can no longer use him to destroy the devotee's ego...Sri Lakshmana Swamy. > > The exception .Ramana Maharshi was a very advanced soul and almost completed his sadhana in his previous life. > > > > The mind can never eliminate itself without the grace of the Self. The mind is afraid of its own death it will not do anything to endanger its own existence. It is like a thief who poses as a policeman in order to catch himself; the thief will only pretend to catch himself because he ultimately wants to escape.... > > > > Lakshmana says If one concentrates on and has devotion towards a dead guru then grace will come from the unmanifest Self and not from the form of the guru. This can take one to an effortless thought free state but it cannot pull the mind into the Self and destroy it...Only a Guru can do this.( A real Mukta Guru with power of diksha and saktipat. 99.99% of Gurus are not Sadguru Muktas..and probably 100% of Western teacher satsang gurus). > > > > The mind will engage in sadhana or practise thinking that it wants to destroy itself, but as soon as the mind starts to sink in the Heart, a great fear arises which prevents the mind from completely subsiding. This fear is part of the minds self defence mechanism and you will never overcome it by effort alone. It is because of this that you need a Guru..Mukta Guru...--The Grace of the Guru calms the mind and helps it overcome the fear which otherwise prevent it from completely subsiding. > > > > Some people say complete equanimity of mind is Self realisation, but this is not true. This is only a stage one passes through on the way. > > > Cheers Tony. Namaste TG, I used to think that way as well....but unless you can actually eliminate all your vasanas and samskaras to remove the impediments to realisation it is very difficult...according to the Muktas and other writings..........Being devoted to Ramana is just giving a name to the Self.....and this may happen in many lifetimes but a living Guru has the Diksha and Saktipat/Grace to do it in this lifetime....Just as Ramana did it for others and even animals..........It is Grace in this lifetime to avoid multiple reincarnations..........I am using the words of a mukta who was realised in Ramana's presence by the way....Sri Lakshmana Swamy.......Cheers Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 Time and again Bhagavan Ramana told that Grace is ever flowing.There is never an instant when Grace was not available.Also Bhagavan Ramana told once to a foreigner about Lord Krishn's non availability in flesh and blood , that Krishna is ever available as well as His Bhagavad Gita.Hope this clears the doubt that like so many gurus who are no more available in flesh and blood their Guruthvam(Teachership) is still available to us.If we are sincere / destined Guru is still available(whomsover we adore as Guru)with best wishes,tgr--- On Mon, 3/8/10, aoclery <aoclery wrote:aoclery <aoclery Re: A Living Guru/Mukta is necessary Date: Monday, March 8, 2010, 8:11 PM , TG Ranganathan <tgranganathan@ ...> wrote: > > This is not a must.Sri Ramana is ever available for us even though He is not available physically for He is the indwelling spirit in all of us..This is 100% true.Be assured dear devotees.tgr > > --- On Mon, 3/8/10, aoclery <aoclery > wrote: > > aoclery <aoclery > > A Living Guru/Mukta is necessary > > Monday, March 8, 2010, 10:39 AM > Namaste, > > > > A Living Guru?Mukta is necessary and Why....Jesus, Ramana, Lakshama,Mathru > > > > Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.John..14: 6. > > > > This is Jesus telling his devotees that they need him physically to achieve reallisation. ..and is a typical Vedanta teaching...Jesus always referred to the Self as the Father....even though he was the Son or Sakti... > > > > A Living human Guru is essential for Self Realisation. It is the Self acting as the medium of the Guru which finally destroys the ego and only the human guru can act as the medium. When the guru gives up his body The Self can no longer use him to destroy the devotee's ego...Sri Lakshmana Swamy. > > The exception .Ramana Maharshi was a very advanced soul and almost completed his sadhana in his previous life. > > > > The mind can never eliminate itself without the grace of the Self. The mind is afraid of its own death it will not do anything to endanger its own existence. It is like a thief who poses as a policeman in order to catch himself; the thief will only pretend to catch himself because he ultimately wants to escape.... > > > > Lakshmana says If one concentrates on and has devotion towards a dead guru then grace will come from the unmanifest Self and not from the form of the guru. This can take one to an effortless thought free state but it cannot pull the mind into the Self and destroy it...Only a Guru can do this.( A real Mukta Guru with power of diksha and saktipat. 99.99% of Gurus are not Sadguru Muktas..and probably 100% of Western teacher satsang gurus). > > > > The mind will engage in sadhana or practise thinking that it wants to destroy itself, but as soon as the mind starts to sink in the Heart, a great fear arises which prevents the mind from completely subsiding. This fear is part of the minds self defence mechanism and you will never overcome it by effort alone. It is because of this that you need a Guru..Mukta Guru...--The Grace of the Guru calms the mind and helps it overcome the fear which otherwise prevent it from completely subsiding. > > > > Some people say complete equanimity of mind is Self realisation, but this is not true. This is only a stage one passes through on the way. > > > Cheers Tony. Namaste TG, I used to think that way as well....but unless you can actually eliminate all your vasanas and samskaras to remove the impediments to realisation it is very difficult... according to the Muktas and other writings.... ......Being devoted to Ramana is just giving a name to the Self.....and this may happen in many lifetimes but a living Guru has the Diksha and Saktipat/Grace to do it in this lifetime.... Just as Ramana did it for others and even animals..... .....It is Grace in this lifetime to avoid multiple reincarnations. ......... I am using the words of a mukta who was realised in Ramana's presence by the way....Sri Lakshmana Swamy....... Cheers Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 hi Tony, Some years ago I traveled to India to visit Sri Ramanasrmam. I had no need and no interest in Sri Lakshmana Swami and his disciple, Mathru Sri Sarada. I know no devotees who, after having reached Ramana and began to feel his Grace, would ever have a need or even thought to go in search of another guru. Please respect that and do not stir things up on a list of Ramana devotees, v. Namaste TG,I used to think that way as well....but unless you can actually eliminate all your vasanas and samskaras to remove the impediments to realisation it is very difficult... according to the Muktas and other writings.... ......Being devoted to Ramana is just giving a name to the Self.....and this may happen in many lifetimes but a living Guru has the Diksha and Saktipat/Grace to do it in this lifetime.... Just as Ramana did it for others and even animals..... .....It is Grace in this lifetime to avoid multiple reincarnations. ......... I am using the words of a mukta who was realised in Ramana's presence by the way....Sri Lakshmana Swamy....... Cheers Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 , viorica w <viorica_weissman wrote: > > hi Tony, > > Some years ago I traveled to India to visit Sri Ramanasrmam. I had no need and no interest in Sri Lakshmana Swami and his disciple, Mathru Sri Sarada. I know no devotees who, after having reached Ramana and began to feel his Grace, would ever have a need or even thought to go in search of another guru.  Please respect that and do not stir things up on a list of Ramana devotees,  > > v.   > > > > Namaste TG, > > I used to think that way as well....but unless you can actually eliminate all your vasanas and samskaras to remove the impediments to realisation it is very difficult... according to the Muktas and other writings.... ......Being devoted to Ramana is just giving a name to the Self.....and this may happen in many lifetimes but a living Guru has the Diksha and Saktipat/Grace to do it in this lifetime.... Just as Ramana did it for others and even animals..... .....It is Grace in this lifetime to avoid multiple reincarnations. ......... I am using the words of a mukta who was realised in Ramana's presence by the way....Sri Lakshmana Swamy....... Cheers Tony. > Namaste Vic, I answer in truth....I repond in truth and I speak the truth...sorry that the truth hurts.........no offence....I'll leave... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 AUM NAMO BHAGAVATE SRI RAMANAYA!No doubt Sri Lakshmanaswamy is a great purusha.But then Sri Ramana or Self or God are always available to turn on for any help(nay not only spiritual help).Not to wound any.....this is my viuew.Nowhere in the hsitory the lofty truth of "getting ATma Jnana" was told in such a simpler way as Bhagavan Sri Ramana told.And for Sri Ramana,"He sees Himslef in others ; and others in Himself"let me put a full stop here.--- On Mon, 3/8/10, aoclery <aoclery wrote:aoclery <aoclery Re: A Living Guru/Mukta is necessaryTo: Date: Monday, March 8, 2010, 10:07 PM , viorica w <viorica_weissman@ ...> wrote: > > hi Tony, > > Some years ago I traveled to India to visit Sri Ramanasrmam. I had no need and no interest in Sri Lakshmana Swami and his disciple, Mathru Sri Sarada. I know no devotees who, after having reached Ramana and began to feel his Grace, would ever have a need or even thought to go in search of another guru.  Please respect that and do not stir things up on a list of Ramana devotees,  > > v.   > > > > Namaste TG, > > I used to think that way as well....but unless you can actually eliminate all your vasanas and samskaras to remove the impediments to realisation it is very difficult... according to the Muktas and other writings.... ......Being devoted to Ramana is just giving a name to the Self.....and this may happen in many lifetimes but a living Guru has the Diksha and Saktipat/Grace to do it in this lifetime.... Just as Ramana did it for others and even animals..... .....It is Grace in this lifetime to avoid multiple reincarnations. ......... I am using the words of a mukta who was realised in Ramana's presence by the way....Sri Lakshmana Swamy....... Cheers Tony. > Namaste Vic, I answer in truth....I repond in truth and I speak the truth...sorry that the truth hurts....... ..no offence....I' ll leave... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 does the ganges have a source for proclaiming its pure state? aoclery <aocleryadvaitajnana Sent: Mon, March 8, 2010 10:03:42 PM A Living Guru/Mukta is necessary Namaste,A Living Guru?Mukta is necessary and Why....Jesus, Ramana, Lakshama,Mathru Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.John..14: 6. This is Jesus telling his devotees that they need him physically to achieve reallisation. ..and is a typical Vedanta teaching...Jesus always referred to the Self as the Father....even though he was the Son or Sakti... A Living human Guru is essential for Self Realisation. It is the Self acting as the medium of the Guru which finally destroys the ego and only the human guru can act as the medium. When the guru gives up his body The Self can no longer use him to destroy the devotee's ego...Sri Lakshmana Swamy. The exception .Ramana Maharshi was a very advanced soul and almost completed his sadhana in his previous life. The mind can never eliminate itself without the grace of the Self. The mind is afraid of its own death it will not do anything to endanger its own existence. It is like a thief who poses as a policeman in order to catch himself; the thief will only pretend to catch himself because he ultimately wants to escape.... Lakshmana says If one concentrates on and has devotion towards a dead guru then grace will come from the unmanifest Self and not from the form of the guru. This can take one to an effortless thought free state but it cannot pull the mind into the Self and destroy it...Only a Guru can do this.( A real Mukta Guru with power of diksha and saktipat. 99.99% of Gurus are not Sadguru Muktas..and probably 100% of Western teacher satsang gurus). The mind will engage in sadhana or practise thinking that it wants to destroy itself, but as soon as the mind starts to sink in the Heart, a great fear arises which prevents the mind from completely subsiding. This fear is part of the minds self defence mechanism and you will never overcome it by effort alone. It is because of this that you need a Guru..Mukta Guru...--The Grace of the Guru calms the mind and helps it overcome the fear which otherwise prevent it from completely subsiding. Some people say complete equanimity of mind is Self realisation, but this is not true. This is only a stage one passes through on the way.Cheers Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 Namaste, A Living Guru?Mukta is necessary and Why....Jesus, Ramana, Lakshama,Mathru Jesus answered, " I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.John..14: 6. This is Jesus telling his devotees that they need him physically to achieve reallisation. ..and is a typical Vedanta teaching...Jesus always referred to the Self as the Father....even though he was the Son or Sakti... A Living human Guru is essential for Self Realisation. It is the Self acting as the medium of the Guru which finally destroys the ego and only the human guru can act as the medium. When the guru gives up his body The Self can no longer use him to destroy the devotee's ego...Sri Lakshmana Swamy. The exception .Ramana Maharshi was a very advanced soul and almost completed his sadhana in his previous life. The mind can never eliminate itself without the grace of the Self. The mind is afraid of its own death it will not do anything to endanger its own existence. It is like a thief who poses as a policeman in order to catch himself; the thief will only pretend to catch himself because he ultimately wants to escape.... Lakshmana says If one concentrates on and has devotion towards a dead guru then grace will come from the unmanifest Self and not from the form of the guru. This can take one to an effortless thought free state but it cannot pull the mind into the Self and destroy it...Only a Guru can do this.( A real Mukta Guru with power of diksha and saktipat. 99.99% of Gurus are not Sadguru Muktas..and probably 100% of Western teacher satsang gurus). The mind will engage in sadhana or practise thinking that it wants to destroy itself, but as soon as the mind starts to sink in the Heart, a great fear arises which prevents the mind from completely subsiding. This fear is part of the minds self defence mechanism and you will never overcome it by effort alone. It is because of this that you need a Guru..Mukta Guru...--The Grace of the Guru calms the mind and helps it overcome the fear which otherwise prevent it from completely subsiding. Some people say complete equanimity of mind is Self realisation, but this is not true. This is only a stage one passes through on the way. Cheers Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 advaitajnana , Mahesh Kamat <mv.kamat wrote: > > does the ganges have a source for proclaiming its pure state? > > > > > ________________________________ > aoclery <aoclery > advaitajnana > Mon, March 8, 2010 10:03:42 PM > A Living Guru/Mukta is necessary > > Â > Namaste, > > A Living Guru?Mukta is necessary and Why....Jesus, Ramana, Lakshama,Mathru > > Jesus answered, " I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.John..14: 6. > > This is Jesus telling his devotees that they need him physically to achieve reallisation. ..and is a typical Vedanta teaching...Jesus always referred to the Self as the Father....even though he was the Son or Sakti... > > A Living human Guru is essential for Self Realisation. It is the Self acting as the medium of the Guru which finally destroys the ego and only the human guru can act as the medium. When the guru gives up his body The Self can no longer use him to destroy the devotee's ego...Sri Lakshmana Swamy. > The exception .Ramana Maharshi was a very advanced soul and almost completed his sadhana in his previous life. > > The mind can never eliminate itself without the grace of the Self. The mind is afraid of its own death it will not do anything to endanger its own existence. It is like a thief who poses as a policeman in order to catch himself; the thief will only pretend to catch himself because he ultimately wants to escape.... > > Lakshmana says If one concentrates on and has devotion towards a dead guru then grace will come from the unmanifest Self and not from the form of the guru. This can take one to an effortless thought free state but it cannot pull the mind into the Self and destroy it...Only a Guru can do this.( A real Mukta Guru with power of diksha and saktipat. 99.99% of Gurus are not Sadguru Muktas..and probably 100% of Western teacher satsang gurus). > > The mind will engage in sadhana or practise thinking that it wants to destroy itself, but as soon as the mind starts to sink in the Heart, a great fear arises which prevents the mind from completely subsiding. This fear is part of the minds self defence mechanism and you will never overcome it by effort alone. It is because of this that you need a Guru..Mukta Guru...--The Grace of the Guru calms the mind and helps it overcome the fear which otherwise prevent it from completely subsiding. > > Some people say complete equanimity of mind is Self realisation, but this is not true. This is only a stage one passes through on the way. > > Cheers Tony. > Namaste Mahesh, That is too obtuse to be understood readily please explain...Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 in the stream of knowledge "I am" where is the beginning (guru) & where is the end (mukta)? -mahesh aoclery <aocleryadvaitajnana Sent: Tue, March 9, 2010 11:06:58 PM Re: A Living Guru/Mukta is necessary advaitajnana, Mahesh Kamat <mv.kamat@.. .> wrote:>> does the ganges have a source for proclaiming its pure state? > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __> aoclery <aoclery >> advaitajnana> Mon, March 8, 2010 10:03:42 PM> A Living Guru/Mukta is necessary> > Â > Namaste,> > A Living Guru?Mukta is necessary and Why....Jesus, Ramana, Lakshama,Mathru > > Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.John..14: 6. > > This is Jesus telling his devotees that they need him physically to achieve reallisation. ..and is a typical Vedanta teaching...Jesus always referred to the Self as the Father....even though he was the Son or Sakti... > > A Living human Guru is essential for Self Realisation. It is the Self acting as the medium of the Guru which finally destroys the ego and only the human guru can act as the medium. When the guru gives up his body The Self can no longer use him to destroy the devotee's ego...Sri Lakshmana Swamy. > The exception .Ramana Maharshi was a very advanced soul and almost completed his sadhana in his previous life. > > The mind can never eliminate itself without the grace of the Self. The mind is afraid of its own death it will not do anything to endanger its own existence. It is like a thief who poses as a policeman in order to catch himself; the thief will only pretend to catch himself because he ultimately wants to escape.... > > Lakshmana says If one concentrates on and has devotion towards a dead guru then grace will come from the unmanifest Self and not from the form of the guru. This can take one to an effortless thought free state but it cannot pull the mind into the Self and destroy it...Only a Guru can do this.( A real Mukta Guru with power of diksha and saktipat. 99.99% of Gurus are not Sadguru Muktas..and probably 100% of Western teacher satsang gurus). > > The mind will engage in sadhana or practise thinking that it wants to destroy itself, but as soon as the mind starts to sink in the Heart, a great fear arises which prevents the mind from completely subsiding. This fear is part of the minds self defence mechanism and you will never overcome it by effort alone. It is because of this that you need a Guru..Mukta Guru...--The Grace of the Guru calms the mind and helps it overcome the fear which otherwise prevent it from completely subsiding. > > Some people say complete equanimity of mind is Self realisation, but this is not true. This is only a stage one passes through on the way.> > Cheers Tony.>Namaste Mahesh,That is too obtuse to be understood readily please explain...Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 advaitajnana , Mahesh Kamat <mv.kamat wrote: > > in the stream of knowledge " I am " where is the beginning (guru) & where is the end (mukta)? > -mahesh Namaste M, Yes if you are realised but as Sankara says..it is real while you are in it................Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2010 Report Share Posted March 15, 2010 Thank you Tony-ji for your message. Grace is needed indeed for Self-Realization. You say that a human Guru is essential for Self-Realization. Possibly that is true. I believe the Shakracharya of Kanchi (I read it on this list) said that if the devotee is sincere, the Lord Himself enters the body of even an unenlightened guru and grants Grace. So we should not be so rigid in our thinking. After all, it is only the mind that thinks one way or another. It is that very same mind which has to be surrendered to the Lord, the Self, that sits in our Heart. Bhagavan Ramana used to say that the Guru is not the body. In any case, there is no harm in keeping an open mind. Bhagavan's Grace falls on all without distinction. Namaste and love to all Harsha advaitin [advaitin ] On Behalf Of aoclery Monday, March 08, 2010 11:35 AM advaitin A Living Guru/Mukta is necessary Namaste, A Living Guru?Mukta is necessary and Why....Jesus, Ramana, Lakshama,Mathru Jesus answered, " I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.John..14:6. This is Jesus telling his devotees that they need him physically to achieve reallisation...and is a typical Vedanta teaching...Jesus always referred to the Self as the Father....even though he was the Son or Sakti... A Living human Guru is essential for Self Realisation. It is the Self acting as the medium of the Guru which finally destroys the ego and only the human guru can act as the medium. When the guru gives up his body The Self can no longer use him to destroy the devotee's ego...Sri Lakshmana Swamy. The exception .Ramana Maharshi was a very advanced soul and almost completed his sadhana in his previous life. The mind can never eliminate itself without the grace of the Self. The mind is afraid of its own death it will not do anything to endanger its own existence. It is like a thief who poses as a policeman in order to catch himself; the thief will only pretend to catch himself because he ultimately wants to escape.... Lakshmana says If one concentrates on and has devotion towards a dead guru then grace will come from the unmanifest Self and not from the form of the guru. This can take one to an effortless thought free state but it cannot pull the mind into the Self and destroy it...Only a Guru can do this.( A real Mukta Guru with power of diksha and saktipat. 99.99% of Gurus are not Sadguru Muktas..and probably 100% of Western teacher satsang gurus). The mind will engage in sadhana or practise thinking that it wants to destroy itself, but as soon as the mind starts to sink in the Heart, a great fear arises which prevents the mind from completely subsiding. This fear is part of the minds self defence mechanism and you will never overcome it by effort alone. It is because of this that you need a Guru..Mukta Guru...--The Grace of the Guru calms the mind and helps it overcome the fear which otherwise prevent it from completely subsiding. Some people say complete equanimity of mind is Self realisation, but this is not true. This is only a stage one passes through on the way. Cheers Tony. --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2010 Report Share Posted March 15, 2010 advaitin , " Harsha " wrote: > > Thank you Tony-ji for your message. Grace is needed indeed for > Self-Realization. Namaste, An excellent resource on the subject of Grace, is Prof. VK-ji's : http://www.krishnamurthys.com/profvk/gohitvip/75.html Beach 7: The Art and Science of Spiritual Love Wave 5: Descent of Divine Grace Regards, Sunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 advaitin , " Harsha " wrote: > > Thank you Tony-ji for your message. Grace is needed indeed for > Self-Realization. > > You say that a human Guru is essential for Self-Realization. Possibly that > is true. I believe the Shakracharya of Kanchi (I read it on this list) said > that if the devotee is sincere, the Lord Himself enters the body of even an > unenlightened guru and grants Grace. > > So we should not be so rigid in our thinking. After all, it is only the mind > that thinks one way or another. It is that very same mind which has to be > surrendered to the Lord, the Self, that sits in our Heart. > > Bhagavan Ramana used to say that the Guru is not the body. > > In any case, there is no harm in keeping an open mind. Bhagavan's Grace > falls on all without distinction. > > Namaste and love to all > Harsha > Namaste Harsha-ji, You think that I am rigid? You will note that my post was almost all directly lifted from the words of Sri Lakshamana Swami....with some possible inference of the Mundaka....I am not a Mukti to state such a thing...However it is my understanding that if the vasanas are destroyed by Jnana or Bhakti then the 'Grace' can shine through as it is there all the time...So then it would be the inner guru that enlightens...However if one is not so advanced as Ramana but on the verge of realisation as was Mathru Sri Sarada then the intervention of a physical guru was apparently necessary..Also a living Guru can dispense Saktipat and Diksha to devotees, and only living Guru can be the medium for that..Ramana did this intervention with his mother and with several animals...a deer, Lakshmi the Cow etc. Sri Lakshmana Swami also did it with Sarada and with animals as well....even a rat... Without insulting anybody a Mukta doesn't exist after death only the Self...So Ramana isn't around anymore but as a name for the Inner Guru or Self..This then posits the question whether one is advanced enough in the removal of vasanas to get one's own Grace so to speak or whether the intervention of a Guru with Saktipat and Diksha would be beneficial.. In my case I'm afraid I would need the living guru...at this point in my sadhana...Cheers Tony. As you know on an ashram I was visited by a subtle yogi or siddha some years ago...and given some Diksha...which helped me progress from the position that I was in...Also when I was visiting my late father in Wales, where he had retired, I went up on a mountain and did a meditation....on awakening I had two words in my mind in Welsh..Clwyd Bach or similar....I don't speak Welsh so I had to ask my father who did and he said it meant 'a small gateway'..I didn't see the expression in that way for many years, then I came across the exact terminology spoken by a now living Guru.....Auspicious...hopefully...........Cheers Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 advaitajnana , " aoclery " <aoclery wrote: > > > > advaitajnana , Mahesh Kamat <mv.kamat@> wrote: > > > > in the stream of knowledge " I am " where is the beginning (guru) & where is the end (mukta)? > > -mahesh > > Namaste M, > > Yes if you are realised but as Sankara says..it is real while you are in it................> advaitin , " Harsha " wrote: > > Thank you Tony-ji for your message. Grace is needed indeed for > Self-Realization. > > You say that a human Guru is essential for Self-Realization. Possibly that > is true. I believe the Shakracharya of Kanchi (I read it on this list) said > that if the devotee is sincere, the Lord Himself enters the body of even an > unenlightened guru and grants Grace. > > So we should not be so rigid in our thinking. After all, it is only the mind > that thinks one way or another. It is that very same mind which has to be > surrendered to the Lord, the Self, that sits in our Heart. > > Bhagavan Ramana used to say that the Guru is not the body. > > In any case, there is no harm in keeping an open mind. Bhagavan's Grace > falls on all without distinction. > > Namaste and love to all > Harsha > Namaste Harsha-ji, You think that I am rigid? You will note that my post was almost all directly lifted from the words of Sri Lakshamana Swami....with some possible inference of the Mundaka....I am not a Mukti to state such a thing...However it is my understanding that if the vasanas are destroyed by Jnana or Bhakti then the 'Grace' can shine through as it is there all the time...So then it would be the inner guru that enlightens...However if one is not so advanced as Ramana but on the verge of realisation as was Mathru Sri Sarada then the intervention of a physical guru was apparently necessary..Also a living Guru can dispense Saktipat and Diksha to devotees, and only living Guru can be the medium for that..Ramana did this intervention with his mother and with several animals...a deer, Lakshmi the Cow etc. Sri Lakshmana Swami also did it with Sarada and with animals as well....even a rat... Without insulting anybody a Mukta doesn't exist after death only the Self...So Ramana isn't around anymore but as a name for the Inner Guru or Self..This then posits the question whether one is advanced enough in the removal of vasanas to get one's own Grace so to speak or whether the intervention of a Guru with Saktipat and Diksha would be beneficial.. In my case I'm afraid I would need the living guru...at this point in my sadhana...Cheers Tony. As you know on an ashram I was visited by a subtle yogi or siddha some years ago...and given some Diksha...which helped me progress from the position that I was in...Also when I was visiting my late father in Wales, where he had retired, I went up on a mountain and did a meditation....on awakening I had two words in my mind in Welsh..Clwyd Bach or similar....I don't speak Welsh so I had to ask my father who did and he said it meant 'a small gateway'..I didn't see the expression in that way for many years, then I came across the exact terminology spoken by a now living Guru.....Auspicious...hopefully...........Cheers Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 El 16/03/2010, a las 17:10, aoclery escribió:advaitin , "Harsha" wrote:>> Thank you Tony-ji for your message. Grace is needed indeed for> Self-Realization.> > You say that a human Guru is essential for Self-Realization. Possibly that> is true. I believe the Shakracharya of Kanchi (I read it on this list) said> that if the devotee is sincere, the Lord Himself enters the body of even an> unenlightened guru and grants Grace.> > So we should not be so rigid in our thinking. After all, it is only the mind> that thinks one way or another. It is that very same mind which has to be> surrendered to the Lord, the Self, that sits in our Heart.> > Bhagavan Ramana used to say that the Guru is not the body. > > In any case, there is no harm in keeping an open mind. Bhagavan's Grace> falls on all without distinction. > > Namaste and love to all> Harsha> Namaste Harsha-ji, You think that I am rigid?You will note that my post was almost all directly lifted from the words of Sri Lakshamana Swami....with some possible inference of the Mundaka....I am not a Mukti to state such a thing...However it is my understanding that if the vasanas are destroyed by Jnana or Bhakti then the 'Grace' can shine through as it is there all the time...So then it would be the inner guru that enlightens...However if one is not so advanced as Ramana but on the verge of realisation as was Mathru Sri Sarada then the intervention of a physical guru was apparently necessary..Also a living Guru can dispense Saktipat and Diksha to devotees, and only living Guru can be the medium for that..Ramana did this intervention with his mother and with several animals...a deer, Lakshmi the Cow etc. Sri Lakshmana Swami also did it with Sarada and with animals as well....even a rat...Without insulting anybody a Mukta doesn't exist after death only the Self...So Ramana isn't around anymore but as a name for the Inner Guru or Self..This then posits the question whether one is advanced enough in the removal of vasanas to get one's own Grace so to speak or whether the intervention of a Guru with Saktipat and Diksha would be beneficial.. In my case I'm afraid I would need the living guru...at this point in my sadhana...Cheers Tony.As you know on an ashram I was visited by a subtle yogi or siddha some years ago...and given some Diksha...which helped me progress from the position that I was in...Also when I was visiting my late father in Wales, where he had retired, I went up on a mountain and did a meditation....on awakening I had two words in my mind in Welsh..Clwyd Bach or similar....I don't speak Welsh so I had to ask my father who did and he said it meant 'a small gateway'..I didn't see the expression in that way for many years, then I came across the exact terminology spoken by a now living Guru.....Auspicious...hopefully...........Cheers Tony.Namaste, Tony-ji,You are a devotee inside indeed. Behind all that Gnana therein lies a bhakta. Could not be otherwise for an Irish. I pray to God to make good your auspicious signs.Raman Ramon Leonatoramanhttp://ifsu.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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