Guest guest Posted March 13, 2010 Report Share Posted March 13, 2010 Buddhism is a band-aid you wear on the wound of being born until you die. There is no everlasting putting out of the flame of being, once and for all. Now there are more humans living in misery and delusion than in Buddha's time. Do not doubt, even for a second, that every human is the Buddha reborn, the same generic life, and consciousness, the same sense of being myself. You are him, struggling for salvation again, and again. It never ends. Well, maybe, it will when time ends. Meanwhile, my advice, is try to enjoy the trip. It's going to be a hell of a long ride. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2010 Report Share Posted March 13, 2010 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > Buddhism is a band-aid you wear on the wound of being > born until you die. It's not a band-aid, but a cure for life and death both. Then again, " it " isn't Buddhism. Any " ism " can only be a band-aid. Any belief system is merely a patch. The truth is unbelievable... beyond belief ;-). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2010 Report Share Posted March 13, 2010 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > Buddhism is a band-aid you wear on the wound of being > born until you die. There is no everlasting putting out > of the flame of being, once and for all. Now there are > more humans living in misery and delusion than in Buddha's > time. > > Do not doubt, even for a second, that every human is the > Buddha reborn, the same generic life, and consciousness, > the same sense of being myself. You are him, struggling > for salvation again, and again. It never ends. Well, > maybe, it will when time ends. Meanwhile, my advice, is try > to enjoy the trip. It's going to be a hell of a long ride. > > Pete If a fire can't be put out, one has no choice but to be it. This demands all one's awareness, with nothing left over to play the part of the " other. " One can enter the fire one is, and die. Or one keeps a focus on " others " to define oneself against, instead. Keep the struggle going, keep the separation because it is an addiction, not something one wants to resolve. - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2010 Report Share Posted March 13, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > Buddhism is a band-aid you wear on the wound of being > > born until you die. There is no everlasting putting out > > of the flame of being, once and for all. Now there are > > more humans living in misery and delusion than in Buddha's > > time. > > > > Do not doubt, even for a second, that every human is the > > Buddha reborn, the same generic life, and consciousness, > > the same sense of being myself. You are him, struggling > > for salvation again, and again. It never ends. Well, > > maybe, it will when time ends. Meanwhile, my advice, is try > > to enjoy the trip. It's going to be a hell of a long ride. > > > > Pete > > If a fire can't be put out, one has no choice but to be it. > > This demands all one's awareness, with nothing left over to play the part of the " other. " > > One can enter the fire one is, and die. Indeed so. One is consumed by this now, " just for now " . It wouldn't be possible, if there were time. But there isn't, and so one is this moment, as-is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2010 Report Share Posted March 13, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > Buddhism is a band-aid you wear on the wound of being > > born until you die. There is no everlasting putting out > > of the flame of being, once and for all. Now there are > > more humans living in misery and delusion than in Buddha's > > time. > > > > Do not doubt, even for a second, that every human is the > > Buddha reborn, the same generic life, and consciousness, > > the same sense of being myself. You are him, struggling > > for salvation again, and again. It never ends. Well, > > maybe, it will when time ends. Meanwhile, my advice, is try > > to enjoy the trip. It's going to be a hell of a long ride. > > > > Pete > > If a fire can't be put out, one has no choice but to be it. > > This demands all one's awareness, with nothing left over to play the part of the " other. " > > One can enter the fire one is, and die. > > Or one keeps a focus on " others " to define oneself against, instead. > > Keep the struggle going, keep the separation because it is an addiction, not something one wants to resolve. > > - D - P: So, drop your leaky hose, and burn your posting fingers to ashy bones, chatterbox. ) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2010 Report Share Posted March 14, 2010 Well put! Perhaps in addition to "Keep(ing) the struggle going, keep(ing) the separation because it is an addiction, not something one wants to resolve"...it's an activity one is extremely reluctant to recognize and admit to...yet probably is the very thing that at the same time one yearns for with all of one's heart and being. ~M < If a fire can't be put out, one has no choice but to be it.< This demands all one's awareness, with nothing left over to play the part of the "other."< One can enter the fire one is, and die.< Or one keeps a focus on "others" to define oneself against, instead.< Keep the struggle going, keep the separation because it is an addiction, not something one wants to resolve.< - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 14, 2010 Report Share Posted March 14, 2010 Nisargadatta , " Michael Adamson " <adamson wrote: > > > Well put! Perhaps in addition to " Keep(ing) the struggle going, keep(ing) the separation because it is an addiction, not something one wants to resolve " ...it's an activity one is extremely reluctant to recognize and admit to...yet probably is the very thing that at the same time one yearns for with all of one's heart and being. > > ~M P: This notion that there is no " other " is pure nondual b.s. You do have a wife which whom you have sex, I hope. You know the difference between masturbating and having sex with her. The other represents change without self acting, as when your house gets burglarized when you're away, or someone dents your car, or your boss decides to give you a promotion. The unexpected happens and that symbolizes the other whether in human shape, or an act of nature. It has nothing to do with struggling at all. Below, Dan is expressing his frustration that his wisdom is not properly accepted and rewarded. He wants to blame that on same other he claims doesn't exist. He is struggling against that nonacceptance. He is not entering the fire he preaches for others. > >D: < If a fire can't be put out, one has no choice but to be it. > < This demands all one's awareness, with nothing left over to play the part of the " other. " > < One can enter the fire one is, and die. > < Or one keeps a focus on " others " to define oneself against, instead. > < Keep the struggle going, keep the separation because it is an addiction, not something one wants to resolve. > < - D - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2010 Report Share Posted March 15, 2010 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > Buddhism is a band-aid you wear on the wound of being > > > born until you die. There is no everlasting putting out > > > of the flame of being, once and for all. Now there are > > > more humans living in misery and delusion than in Buddha's > > > time. > > > > > > Do not doubt, even for a second, that every human is the > > > Buddha reborn, the same generic life, and consciousness, > > > the same sense of being myself. You are him, struggling > > > for salvation again, and again. It never ends. Well, > > > maybe, it will when time ends. Meanwhile, my advice, is try > > > to enjoy the trip. It's going to be a hell of a long ride. > > > > > > Pete > > > > If a fire can't be put out, one has no choice but to be it. > > > > This demands all one's awareness, with nothing left over to play the part of the " other. " > > > > One can enter the fire one is, and die. > > > > Or one keeps a focus on " others " to define oneself against, instead. > > > > Keep the struggle going, keep the separation because it is an addiction, not something one wants to resolve. > > > > - D - > > P: So, drop your leaky hose, and burn your posting > fingers to ashy bones, chatterbox. ) D: So, how many lists do you moderate, again? And how many other lists do you post on, in addition to the ones you moderate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2010 Report Share Posted March 15, 2010 Nisargadatta , " Michael Adamson " <adamson wrote: > > > Well put! Perhaps in addition to " Keep(ing) the struggle going, keep(ing) the separation because it is an addiction, not something one wants to resolve " ...it's an activity one is extremely reluctant to recognize and admit to...yet probably is the very thing that at the same time one yearns for with all of one's heart and being. > > ~M Well, it gets twisted up with unacknowledged and avoided fear, which gets projected " out there " as " something I'm fighting against. " So human yearnings get all twisted up with the " external world existing apart from me " that is supposed to be there. And giving up the world that exists separately from one's own awareness may feel like losing everything, and being nothing, losing everything that gives " I " a sense that I am grounded somewhere as something. Although it turns out that it just is what is, and has never not been the case. Nothing to get, have, or be. The truth isn't easy, although it's all that is. Which explains a lot of posts about " those stupid neo-Advaitins, " and " get a life, " and " just come down to earth and exist as flesh and blood, " etc., etc., etc. There is unowned and unacknowledged fear. And unless and until one *is* the fear, there is no clearing it. It can be projected and combated endlessly as various threats or idiots " out there, " and all kinds of attempts to " prove to myself and others that I am someone " and lots of other stuff. - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2010 Report Share Posted March 15, 2010 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Michael Adamson " <adamson@> wrote: > > > > > > Well put! Perhaps in addition to " Keep(ing) the struggle going, keep(ing) the separation because it is an addiction, not something one wants to resolve " ...it's an activity one is extremely reluctant to recognize and admit to...yet probably is the very thing that at the same time one yearns for with all of one's heart and being. > > > > ~M > > P: This notion that there is no " other " is pure nondual > b.s. You do have a wife which whom you have sex, I hope. > You know the difference between masturbating and having > sex with her. The other represents change without self acting, > as when your house gets burglarized when you're away, or > someone dents your car, or your boss decides to give you > a promotion. The unexpected happens and that symbolizes > the other whether in human shape, or an act of nature. It > has nothing to do with struggling at all. > > Below, Dan is expressing his frustration that his wisdom > is not properly accepted and rewarded. He wants to blame that > on same other he claims doesn't exist. He is struggling > against that nonacceptance. He is not entering the fire he > preaches for others. Again, Pete. It's not about me. Not about Dan. In spite of your use of words that make it about me vs. you, that is not what this is. Of course, for a being defined as a separated body, there are other bodies that are viewed as separately defined. A car defined as a separate thing can get dented by something else. Keep defining self that way, if it works for you. I don't have a dog in this race. To clarify " the fire: " you don't enter it, you understand you always are already consumed by it, along with everything else. No one is special. No one gets out alive, not on the Pete Airline, nor anyone else's. It's just acknowledging the fire for what it is. There aren't any heroes here. There isn't any reward for any individual attribute, like " wisdom, " you may have thought you possess. When I write, it's simply about the experience here, that's all. The experience here is the the separately existing other is consumed, along with the separately existing self. That's all. No claim of anything special that was done by Dan. Far from it. Just an acknowledgment. It has more to do with mourning the self, than something to celebrate about the self. And no, this is not an attempt to gain acceptance. If that were what it was about, I would express it on a list that offers acceptance and groupthink, and would say it in such a way as to gain acceptance. There are certainly lists that invite that approach, and it's obvious what to say if you want to be accepted. As Bob once said, lists like that tend to stagnate. - D - (nnb) > >D: < If a fire can't be put out, one has no choice but to be it. > > < This demands all one's awareness, with nothing left over to play the part of the " other. " > > < One can enter the fire one is, and die. > > < Or one keeps a focus on " others " to define oneself against, instead. > > < Keep the struggle going, keep the separation because it is an addiction, not something one wants to resolve. > > < - D - > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2010 Report Share Posted March 15, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <pedsie6@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Michael Adamson " <adamson@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Well put! Perhaps in addition to " Keep(ing) the struggle going, keep(ing) the separation because it is an addiction, not something one wants to resolve " ...it's an activity one is extremely reluctant to recognize and admit to...yet probably is the very thing that at the same time one yearns for with all of one's heart and being. > > > > > > ~M > > > > P: This notion that there is no " other " is pure nondual > > b.s. You do have a wife which whom you have sex, I hope. > > You know the difference between masturbating and having > > sex with her. The other represents change without self acting, > > as when your house gets burglarized when you're away, or > > someone dents your car, or your boss decides to give you > > a promotion. The unexpected happens and that symbolizes > > the other whether in human shape, or an act of nature. It > > has nothing to do with struggling at all. > > > > Below, Dan is expressing his frustration that his wisdom > > is not properly accepted and rewarded. He wants to blame that > > on same other he claims doesn't exist. He is struggling > > against that nonacceptance. He is not entering the fire he > > preaches for others. > > Again, Pete. It's not about me. Not about Dan. > > In spite of your use of words that make it about me vs. you, that > is not what this is. It's funny... I'm always 'here', always present, and yet people want to tell me " what's going on with me " . They're certain that they know. Even though it's obvious that there's no " other " with them, and they can't know -- and that there's no need to know from an " other " here what is happening. Even in the middle of a dream at night, it's clear " what's going on " , what's happening. No 'other' is needed to tell me. Human communication typically carries the assumption of time. Assumes that something can be happening here, that isn't happening now. That I can " have " a " problem " that isn't manifesting now. Despite the fact that there is no other time, ever. Strange stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2010 Report Share Posted March 15, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > The truth isn't easy, although it's all that is. > > Which explains a lot of posts about " those stupid neo-Advaitins, " and " get a life, " and " just come down to earth and exist as flesh and blood, " etc., etc., etc. > " Get a life " is simply the fear that one doesn't " have a life " . By 'somebody else's' definition of 'life', of course. Which in turn was " their " fear that they didn't " have a life " . By 'somebody else's' definition of 'life', of course. And so on, and so forth :-p. " Ignorance " spreading like waves on the surface of the ocean. Or, the buck stops here, and one is the ocean. No two ways about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2010 Report Share Posted March 15, 2010 Nisargadatta, " dan330033 " <dan330033@. ..> wrote: > > The truth isn't easy, although it's all that is. > > Which explains a lot of posts about " those stupid neo-Advaitins, " and " get a life, " and " just come down to earth and exist as flesh and blood, " etc., etc., etc. > " Get a life " is simply the fear that one doesn't " have a life " . By 'somebody else's' definition of 'life', of course. Which in turn was " their " fear that they didn't " have a life " . By 'somebody else's' definition of 'life', of course. And so on, and so forth :-p. " Ignorance " spreading like waves on the surface of the ocean. Or, the buck stops here, and one is the ocean. No two ways about it. bubbbling neos are (only) the waves in this group of so called " non-dualists " .... wow!!! Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2010 Report Share Posted March 15, 2010 Nisargadatta , Marc <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta, " dan330033 " <dan330033@ ..> wrote: > > > > The truth isn't easy, although it's all that is. > > > > Which explains a lot of posts about " those stupid neo-Advaitins, " and " get a life, " and " just come down to earth and exist as flesh and blood, " etc., etc., etc. > > > > " Get a life " is simply the fear that one doesn't " have a life " . > > By 'somebody else's' definition of 'life', of course. > > Which in turn was " their " fear that they didn't " have a life " . > > By 'somebody else's' definition of 'life', of course. > > And so on, and so forth :-p. > > " Ignorance " spreading like waves on the surface of the ocean. > > Or, the buck stops here, and one is the ocean. > > No two ways about it. > > > > bubbbling neos are (only) the waves in this group of so called " non-dualists " .... > > wow!!! > > > > > Marc > Sure. Mere words. Appearing to the same 'one', all the time. No 'nondualists'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2010 Report Share Posted March 15, 2010 Nisargadatta, Marc <dennis_travis33@ ...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta, " dan330033 " <dan330033@ ..> wrote: > > > > The truth isn't easy, although it's all that is. > > > > Which explains a lot of posts about " those stupid neo-Advaitins, " and " get a life, " and " just come down to earth and exist as flesh and blood, " etc., etc., etc. > > > > " Get a life " is simply the fear that one doesn't " have a life " . > > By 'somebody else's' definition of 'life', of course. > > Which in turn was " their " fear that they didn't " have a life " . > > By 'somebody else's' definition of 'life', of course. > > And so on, and so forth :-p. > > " Ignorance " spreading like waves on the surface of the ocean. > > Or, the buck stops here, and one is the ocean. > > No two ways about it. > > > > bubbbling neos are (only) the waves in this group of so called " non-dualists " ..... > > wow!!! > > > > > Marc > Sure. Mere words. Appearing to the same 'one', all the time. No 'nondualists' . i got a so called neo advaitin fish...here....now.... struggling.... .... wait... i will give you more food....: .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... .... Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2010 Report Share Posted March 15, 2010 What you said, Dan, strikes me as true! ~M > Well put! Perhaps in addition to "Keep(ing) the struggle going, keep(ing) the separation because it is an addiction, not something one wants to resolve"...it's an activity one is extremely reluctant to recognize and admit to...yet probably is the very thing that at the same time one yearns for with all of one's heart and being.> > ~M > Well, it gets twisted up with unacknowledged and avoided fear, which gets projected "out there" as "something I'm fighting against." > So human yearnings get all twisted up with the "external world existing apart from me" that is supposed to be there. > And giving up the world that exists separately from one's own awareness may feel like losing everything, and being nothing, losing everything that gives "I" a sense that I am grounded somewhere as something. > Although it turns out that it just is what is, and has never not been the case. > Nothing to get, have, or be. > The truth isn't easy, although it's all that is. > Which explains a lot of posts about "those stupid neo-Advaitins," and "get a life," and "just come down to earth and exist as flesh and blood," etc., etc., etc. > There is unowned and unacknowledged fear. > And unless and until one *is* the fear, there is no clearing it. > It can be projected and combated endlessly as various threats or idiots "out there," and all kinds of attempts to "prove to myself and others that I am someone" and lots of other stuff. > - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2010 Report Share Posted March 15, 2010 On your hand you have (at least) two fingers. One is distinguishable from the other such as the index vs the middle finger. But I ask you, where does one finger leave off and the other begin? So, the two is actually one/not two. Just for fun, tell me where the "wrist" leaves off and the palm of the hand begins, or the elbow leaves off and the wrist begins. Good luck! By the way, what's with the hoping that someone has a wife with whom they have sex"? Doesn't that say way more about poster than it does about whomever the post was addressed to? ~M < Cerosoul wrote: < P: This notion that there is no "other" is pure nondual< b.s. You do have a wife which whom you have sex, I hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2010 Report Share Posted March 15, 2010 Nisargadatta , " Michael Adamson " <adamson wrote: > > > On your hand you have (at least) two fingers. > One is distinguishable from the other such as the index vs the middle finger. > But I ask you, where does one finger leave off and the other begin? > So, the two is actually one/not two. > > Just for fun, tell me where the " wrist " leaves off and the palm of the hand begins, > or the elbow leaves off and the wrist begins. Good luck! P: Dear Mike, your questions are inane. If you would be here I could hit your middle finger (that you are so inadequately pointing at me) and you'd have no doubt which is which. A better koan is, where does your fist goes when you open your hand? Of course, I admit, most koans only expose how we take verbal symbols for real things. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 > On your hand you have (at least) two fingers. > One is distinguishable from the other such as the index vs the middle finger.> But I ask you, where does one finger leave off and the other begin?> So, the two is actually one/not two.> > Just for fun, tell me where the "wrist" leaves off and the palm of the hand begins,> or the elbow leaves off and the wrist begins. Good luck!> P: Dear Mike, your questions are inane. If you would be here> I could hit your middle finger (that you are so inadequately > pointing at me) and you'd have no doubt which is which.> A better koan is, where does your fist goes when you open> your hand? Of course, I admit, most koans only expose how> we take verbal symbols for real things. Pete, So, you start off your post with "Dear" and then swiftly progress to calling an honest invite to inquiry "inane" and immediately possibly deliberately doing something "violent" and inflicting "pain" on me? What's up with that? Yes, if you were to break out your mallet and pummel a finger, the "distinction" would immediately occur "where" the pain is (i.e., tip of index vs middle finger), but that indicates "location", not "separation". So why not take a moment to consider the "inane" questions and report back your findings? Also, show me where a real, actual, and factual border (separation) is anywhere in the universe? I really want to see one? By the way, there's no such "thing" as a "fist". Perhaps "fistingnessing" - an activity of contraction(ing), but no fist. So, it's impossible for a "fist" to go anywhere simply 'cause "it" doesn't exist in the first place. ~M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 Nisargadatta , " Michael Adamson " <adamson wrote: > > > On your hand you have (at least) two fingers. > > One is distinguishable from the other such as the index vs the middle finger. > > But I ask you, where does one finger leave off and the other begin? > > So, the two is actually one/not two. > > > > Just for fun, tell me where the " wrist " leaves off and the palm of the hand begins, > > or the elbow leaves off and the wrist begins. Good luck! > > > P: Dear Mike, your questions are inane. If you would be here > > I could hit your middle finger (that you are so inadequately > > pointing at me) and you'd have no doubt which is which. > > > A better koan is, where does your fist goes when you open > > your hand? Of course, I admit, most koans only expose how > > we take verbal symbols for real things. > > > M: So, you start off your post with " Dear " and then swiftly progress to calling an honest invite to inquiry " inane " and immediately possibly deliberately doing something " violent " and inflicting " pain " on me? What's up with that? P: Well, " dear " Mike, my post was about the reincarnation of The One as Buddha in all of us, and the impossibility of individual salvation. Yet your post was arguing as if I had made a case for separation, and you cited fingers as a worthwhile illustration of nonseparation. That is why your questions seemed inane. > > > >M: So why not take a moment to consider the " inane " questions and report back your findings? Also, show me where a real, actual, and factual border (separation) is anywhere in the universe? I really want to see one? > P: OK, If you insist. Let's talk about separation and location. A human being is an amphibian. He/she lives in a liquid world of sensations, but must venture into the dry land of practicality that is the everyday objective world where bodies live and die. When we talk about lack of separation and non location, it's important to note that we are referring only to the subjective liquid world of sensations, and very specifically unitive perception. It is attention that gives the illusion of separating the roses from the leafs in a rosebush. The brain has a map where location happens. Every organ in the body has a territory assigned on that map. Vision is the largest country in the map, followed by the hands. Due to this map amputees can feel pain in a missing limb. So, location, and separation persist even if the hand is gone. But location and separation do not refute unity. Water is the same substance when it's warm, or cold, and yet it's quite different to soak in a hot tub or fall through a hole in a frozen lake. Difference and location matters in the everyday world. Your house in Poway wouldn't be worth the same in Barrio Logan, and I'm sure that you appreciate that fact. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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