Guest guest Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > the love that isn't personalized nor based on emotions and the past is not the love offered by a personal being, which love is a disguised attempt to get something back. > > the typical love and adoration aimed at a guru is for the sake of having an ideal object that can be counted on. > when there was love in my heart for maharaj, it happened by itself. there was no conscious effort to get anything back. there was nothing ideal object to be counted on. dan, did you ever experience guru love? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > the love that isn't personalized nor based on emotions and the past is not the love offered by a personal being, which love is a disguised attempt to get something back. > > > > the typical love and adoration aimed at a guru is for the sake of having an ideal object that can be counted on. > > > > when there was love in my heart for maharaj, it happened by itself. there was no conscious effort to get anything back. there was nothing ideal object to be counted on. > > dan, did you ever experience guru love? hi hur - the love i've experienced toward human teachers, when that feeling arose, has been " of the moment. " not something i'd call " guru love. " - d - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > the love that isn't personalized nor based on emotions and the past is not the love offered by a personal being, which love is a disguised attempt to get something back. > > > > > > the typical love and adoration aimed at a guru is for the sake of having an ideal object that can be counted on. > > > > > > > when there was love in my heart for maharaj, it happened by itself. there was no conscious effort to get anything back. there was nothing ideal object to be counted on. > > > > dan, did you ever experience guru love? > > hi hur - > > the love i've experienced toward human teachers, when that feeling arose, has been " of the moment. " > > not something i'd call " guru love. " > > - d - > i thought i posted a reply but it didn't appear. since i didn't copy it, i'll write another response... in a similar way the romantic love does, guru love does something to the brain chemistry. it's like a drug that enhances the " of the moment " love and makes it last longer. it's important because this love, coupled with intellectual understanding, shifts one's model of reality, bringing a different level of understanding. it's ironic that in nonduality world, this dualistic love still happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > the love that isn't personalized nor based on emotions and the past is not the love offered by a personal being, which love is a disguised attempt to get something back. > > > > > > > > the typical love and adoration aimed at a guru is for the sake of having an ideal object that can be counted on. > > > > > > > > > > when there was love in my heart for maharaj, it happened by itself. there was no conscious effort to get anything back. there was nothing ideal object to be counted on. > > > > > > dan, did you ever experience guru love? > > > > hi hur - > > > > the love i've experienced toward human teachers, when that feeling arose, has been " of the moment. " > > > > not something i'd call " guru love. " > > > > - d - > > > > i thought i posted a reply but it didn't appear. since i didn't copy it, i'll write another response... > > in a similar way the romantic love does, guru love does something to the brain chemistry. it's like a drug that enhances the " of the moment " love and makes it last longer. it's important because this love, coupled with intellectual understanding, shifts one's model of reality, bringing a different level of understanding. it's ironic that in nonduality world, this dualistic love still happens. thanks for explaining. do you love empty space? empty space is my guru. it doesn't love me, nor me it. it doesn't even see me, nor do i see it. yet, there is nothing that is not it. i fell into empty space and saw this is what is, all along. p.s. please don't take this metaphor of empty space as anything other than what it is: metaphor. the actuality is not the metaphor, of course. p.p.s someone who has poetic leanings will call empty space " shining brilliance " or " clear light " or even " infinite love " ... but all of that is just poetic license. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the love that isn't personalized nor based on emotions and the past is not the love offered by a personal being, which love is a disguised attempt to get something back. > > > > > > > > > > the typical love and adoration aimed at a guru is for the sake of having an ideal object that can be counted on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > when there was love in my heart for maharaj, it happened by itself. there was no conscious effort to get anything back. there was nothing ideal object to be counted on. > > > > > > > > dan, did you ever experience guru love? > > > > > > hi hur - > > > > > > the love i've experienced toward human teachers, when that feeling arose, has been " of the moment. " > > > > > > not something i'd call " guru love. " > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > > i thought i posted a reply but it didn't appear. since i didn't copy it, i'll write another response... > > > > in a similar way the romantic love does, guru love does something to the brain chemistry. it's like a drug that enhances the " of the moment " love and makes it last longer. it's important because this love, coupled with intellectual understanding, shifts one's model of reality, bringing a different level of understanding. it's ironic that in nonduality world, this dualistic love still happens. > > thanks for explaining. > > do you love empty space? > > empty space is my guru. > > it doesn't love me, nor me it. > > it doesn't even see me, nor do i see it. > > yet, there is nothing that is not it. > > i fell into empty space and saw this is what is, all along. > > p.s. please don't take this metaphor of empty space as anything other than what it is: metaphor. the actuality is not the metaphor, of course. > > p.p.s someone who has poetic leanings will call empty space " shining brilliance " or " clear light " or even " infinite love " ... but all of that is just poetic license. > The *empty space* is where *you* used to be. ~A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 - anna Nisargadatta Friday, March 19, 2010 4:48 PM Re: How can I recognise a Sadguru -- Guru Love Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the love that isn't personalized nor based on emotions and the > > > > > past is not the love offered by a personal being, which love is a > > > > > disguised attempt to get something back. > > > > > > > > > > the typical love and adoration aimed at a guru is for the sake of > > > > > having an ideal object that can be counted on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > when there was love in my heart for maharaj, it happened by itself. > > > > there was no conscious effort to get anything back. there was > > > > nothing ideal object to be counted on. > > > > > > > > dan, did you ever experience guru love? > > > > > > hi hur - > > > > > > the love i've experienced toward human teachers, when that feeling > > > arose, has been " of the moment. " > > > > > > not something i'd call " guru love. " > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > > i thought i posted a reply but it didn't appear. since i didn't copy it, > > i'll write another response... > > > > in a similar way the romantic love does, guru love does something to the > > brain chemistry. it's like a drug that enhances the " of the moment " love > > and makes it last longer. it's important because this love, coupled with > > intellectual understanding, shifts one's model of reality, bringing a > > different level of understanding. it's ironic that in nonduality world, > > this dualistic love still happens. > > thanks for explaining. > > do you love empty space? > > empty space is my guru. > > it doesn't love me, nor me it. > > it doesn't even see me, nor do i see it. > > yet, there is nothing that is not it. > > i fell into empty space and saw this is what is, all along. > > p.s. please don't take this metaphor of empty space as anything other than > what it is: metaphor. the actuality is not the metaphor, of course. > > p.p.s someone who has poetic leanings will call empty space " shining > brilliance " or " clear light " or even " infinite love " ... but all of that > is just poetic license. > The *empty space* is where *you* used to be. ~A The empty space never left, just like the space that a flower occupies is there with or without the flower. -geo- avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 100313-1, 13/03/2010 Tested on: 19/3/2010 17:00:32 avast! - copyright © 1988-2010 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the love that isn't personalized nor based on emotions and the past is not the love offered by a personal being, which love is a disguised attempt to get something back. > > > > > > > > > > the typical love and adoration aimed at a guru is for the sake of having an ideal object that can be counted on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > when there was love in my heart for maharaj, it happened by itself. there was no conscious effort to get anything back. there was nothing ideal object to be counted on. > > > > > > > > dan, did you ever experience guru love? > > > > > > hi hur - > > > > > > the love i've experienced toward human teachers, when that feeling arose, has been " of the moment. " > > > > > > not something i'd call " guru love. " > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > > i thought i posted a reply but it didn't appear. since i didn't copy it, i'll write another response... > > > > in a similar way the romantic love does, guru love does something to the brain chemistry. it's like a drug that enhances the " of the moment " love and makes it last longer. it's important because this love, coupled with intellectual understanding, shifts one's model of reality, bringing a different level of understanding. it's ironic that in nonduality world, this dualistic love still happens. > > thanks for explaining. > > do you love empty space? > > empty space is my guru. My guru is " Silence " . It's a great teacher -- there's much to 'learn' from it, despite the fact one isn't separate from it. Silence was apparently Ramana Maharshi's guru, as well. He waxed poetically about it quite often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the love that isn't personalized nor based on emotions and the past is not the love offered by a personal being, which love is a disguised attempt to get something back. > > > > > > > > > > the typical love and adoration aimed at a guru is for the sake of having an ideal object that can be counted on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > when there was love in my heart for maharaj, it happened by itself. there was no conscious effort to get anything back. there was nothing ideal object to be counted on. > > > > > > > > dan, did you ever experience guru love? > > > > > > hi hur - > > > > > > the love i've experienced toward human teachers, when that feeling arose, has been " of the moment. " > > > > > > not something i'd call " guru love. " > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > > i thought i posted a reply but it didn't appear. since i didn't copy it, i'll write another response... > > > > in a similar way the romantic love does, guru love does something to the brain chemistry. it's like a drug that enhances the " of the moment " love and makes it last longer. it's important because this love, coupled with intellectual understanding, shifts one's model of reality, bringing a different level of understanding. it's ironic that in nonduality world, this dualistic love still happens. > > thanks for explaining. > > do you love empty space? > > empty space is my guru. > > it doesn't love me, nor me it. > > it doesn't even see me, nor do i see it. > > yet, there is nothing that is not it. > > i fell into empty space and saw this is what is, all along. > > p.s. please don't take this metaphor of empty space as anything other than what it is: metaphor. the actuality is not the metaphor, of course. > > p.p.s someone who has poetic leanings will call empty space " shining brilliance " or " clear light " or even " infinite love " ... but all of that is just poetic license. > There's nothing wrong with people who didn't experience guru love. In time the guru love evolves into love or " empty space " itself. In our bicameral mind the lover (me) and the beloved (guru) disappears and love remains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the love that isn't personalized nor based on emotions and the past is not the love offered by a personal being, which love is a disguised attempt to get something back. > > > > > > > > > > > > the typical love and adoration aimed at a guru is for the sake of having an ideal object that can be counted on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when there was love in my heart for maharaj, it happened by itself. there was no conscious effort to get anything back. there was nothing ideal object to be counted on. > > > > > > > > > > dan, did you ever experience guru love? > > > > > > > > hi hur - > > > > > > > > the love i've experienced toward human teachers, when that feeling arose, has been " of the moment. " > > > > > > > > not something i'd call " guru love. " > > > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > > > > > i thought i posted a reply but it didn't appear. since i didn't copy it, i'll write another response... > > > > > > in a similar way the romantic love does, guru love does something to the brain chemistry. it's like a drug that enhances the " of the moment " love and makes it last longer. it's important because this love, coupled with intellectual understanding, shifts one's model of reality, bringing a different level of understanding. it's ironic that in nonduality world, this dualistic love still happens. > > > > thanks for explaining. > > > > do you love empty space? > > > > empty space is my guru. > > My guru is " Silence " . > > It's a great teacher -- there's much to 'learn' from it, despite the fact one isn't separate from it. > > Silence was apparently Ramana Maharshi's guru, as well. > > He waxed poetically about it quite often. > Rightly so that people often use Ramana as an example that one does not need a guru but we know very little about Ramana's early devotional stages, his worship of Shiva in the form of the mountain. That may be the another reason why he never left the mountain. It's possible that Ramana's devotional love in time evolved into his Advaita teachings. Based on the terminology he was using, he was reading some Vedanta books which helped him to use the common terms that the people around him could understand. By the way when i speak to some Indian people they're often surprised that Ramana had any verbal teachings at all...they know him mainly as teaching with silence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the love that isn't personalized nor based on emotions and the past is not the love offered by a personal being, which love is a disguised attempt to get something back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the typical love and adoration aimed at a guru is for the sake of having an ideal object that can be counted on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when there was love in my heart for maharaj, it happened by itself. there was no conscious effort to get anything back. there was nothing ideal object to be counted on. > > > > > > > > > > > > dan, did you ever experience guru love? > > > > > > > > > > hi hur - > > > > > > > > > > the love i've experienced toward human teachers, when that feeling arose, has been " of the moment. " > > > > > > > > > > not something i'd call " guru love. " > > > > > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > > > > > > > > i thought i posted a reply but it didn't appear. since i didn't copy it, i'll write another response... > > > > > > > > in a similar way the romantic love does, guru love does something to the brain chemistry. it's like a drug that enhances the " of the moment " love and makes it last longer. it's important because this love, coupled with intellectual understanding, shifts one's model of reality, bringing a different level of understanding. it's ironic that in nonduality world, this dualistic love still happens. > > > > > > thanks for explaining. > > > > > > do you love empty space? > > > > > > empty space is my guru. > > > > My guru is " Silence " . > > > > It's a great teacher -- there's much to 'learn' from it, despite the fact one isn't separate from it. > > > > Silence was apparently Ramana Maharshi's guru, as well. > > > > He waxed poetically about it quite often. > > > Rightly so that people often use Ramana as an example that one does not need a guru but we know very little about Ramana's early devotional stages, his worship of Shiva in the form of the mountain. That may be the another reason why he never left the mountain. It's possible that Ramana's devotional love in time evolved into his Advaita teachings. Based on the terminology he was using, he was reading some Vedanta books which helped him to use the common terms that the people around him could understand. By the way when i speak to some Indian people they're often surprised that Ramana had any verbal teachings at all...they know him mainly as teaching with silence. > In my view, the whole debate about whether guru is " necessary " is silly. Necessary for whom? Does anyone matter, but the one reading this message? Is there another one, about whom the reader should be concerned? Nisargadatta: " The aim is to awaken yourself to the faith in the self, 'I am'. That is the entire purpose. So whatever is inducive to that development you may accept. Suppose you have faith in a living guru, then accept a living guru. If you have faith in a guru who has left his body, accept that guru. " - from " Experience of Nothingness " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the love that isn't personalized nor based on emotions and the past is not the love offered by a personal being, which love is a disguised attempt to get something back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the typical love and adoration aimed at a guru is for the sake of having an ideal object that can be counted on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when there was love in my heart for maharaj, it happened by itself. there was no conscious effort to get anything back. there was nothing ideal object to be counted on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dan, did you ever experience guru love? > > > > > > > > > > > > hi hur - > > > > > > > > > > > > the love i've experienced toward human teachers, when that feeling arose, has been " of the moment. " > > > > > > > > > > > > not something i'd call " guru love. " > > > > > > > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i thought i posted a reply but it didn't appear. since i didn't copy it, i'll write another response... > > > > > > > > > > in a similar way the romantic love does, guru love does something to the brain chemistry. it's like a drug that enhances the " of the moment " love and makes it last longer. it's important because this love, coupled with intellectual understanding, shifts one's model of reality, bringing a different level of understanding. it's ironic that in nonduality world, this dualistic love still happens. > > > > > > > > thanks for explaining. > > > > > > > > do you love empty space? > > > > > > > > empty space is my guru. > > > > > > My guru is " Silence " . > > > > > > It's a great teacher -- there's much to 'learn' from it, despite the fact one isn't separate from it. > > > > > > Silence was apparently Ramana Maharshi's guru, as well. > > > > > > He waxed poetically about it quite often. > > > > > Rightly so that people often use Ramana as an example that one does not need a guru but we know very little about Ramana's early devotional stages, his worship of Shiva in the form of the mountain. That may be the another reason why he never left the mountain. It's possible that Ramana's devotional love in time evolved into his Advaita teachings. Based on the terminology he was using, he was reading some Vedanta books which helped him to use the common terms that the people around him could understand. By the way when i speak to some Indian people they're often surprised that Ramana had any verbal teachings at all...they know him mainly as teaching with silence. > > > > In my view, the whole debate about whether guru is " necessary " is silly. > actually the debate is not whether the guru is necessary or not. i was just curious whether dan experienced guru love or not. it's possible to " get it " without the guru love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the love that isn't personalized nor based on emotions and the past is not the love offered by a personal being, which love is a disguised attempt to get something back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the typical love and adoration aimed at a guru is for the sake of having an ideal object that can be counted on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when there was love in my heart for maharaj, it happened by itself. there was no conscious effort to get anything back. there was nothing ideal object to be counted on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dan, did you ever experience guru love? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hi hur - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the love i've experienced toward human teachers, when that feeling arose, has been " of the moment. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not something i'd call " guru love. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i thought i posted a reply but it didn't appear. since i didn't copy it, i'll write another response... > > > > > > > > > > > > in a similar way the romantic love does, guru love does something to the brain chemistry. it's like a drug that enhances the " of the moment " love and makes it last longer. it's important because this love, coupled with intellectual understanding, shifts one's model of reality, bringing a different level of understanding. it's ironic that in nonduality world, this dualistic love still happens. > > > > > > > > > > thanks for explaining. > > > > > > > > > > do you love empty space? > > > > > > > > > > empty space is my guru. > > > > > > > > My guru is " Silence " . > > > > > > > > It's a great teacher -- there's much to 'learn' from it, despite the fact one isn't separate from it. > > > > > > > > Silence was apparently Ramana Maharshi's guru, as well. > > > > > > > > He waxed poetically about it quite often. > > > > > > > Rightly so that people often use Ramana as an example that one does not need a guru but we know very little about Ramana's early devotional stages, his worship of Shiva in the form of the mountain. That may be the another reason why he never left the mountain. It's possible that Ramana's devotional love in time evolved into his Advaita teachings. Based on the terminology he was using, he was reading some Vedanta books which helped him to use the common terms that the people around him could understand. By the way when i speak to some Indian people they're often surprised that Ramana had any verbal teachings at all...they know him mainly as teaching with silence. > > > > > > > In my view, the whole debate about whether guru is " necessary " is silly. > > > > actually the debate is not whether the guru is necessary or not. i was just curious whether dan experienced guru love or not. > > it's possible to " get it " without the guru love. > Agreed, and I agree also that " guru love " can be inducive to 'getting it' too, as long as that love is so complete that one forgets oneself. In my view, it can be 'gotten' by turning totally to oneself, or totally to another -- the " totally " being the golden key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the love that isn't personalized nor based on emotions and the past is not the love offered by a personal being, which love is a disguised attempt to get something back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the typical love and adoration aimed at a guru is for the sake of having an ideal object that can be counted on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when there was love in my heart for maharaj, it happened by itself. there was no conscious effort to get anything back. there was nothing ideal object to be counted on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dan, did you ever experience guru love? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hi hur - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the love i've experienced toward human teachers, when that feeling arose, has been " of the moment. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not something i'd call " guru love. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i thought i posted a reply but it didn't appear. since i didn't copy it, i'll write another response... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in a similar way the romantic love does, guru love does something to the brain chemistry. it's like a drug that enhances the " of the moment " love and makes it last longer. it's important because this love, coupled with intellectual understanding, shifts one's model of reality, bringing a different level of understanding. it's ironic that in nonduality world, this dualistic love still happens. > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks for explaining. > > > > > > > > > > > > do you love empty space? > > > > > > > > > > > > empty space is my guru. > > > > > > > > > > My guru is " Silence " . > > > > > > > > > > It's a great teacher -- there's much to 'learn' from it, despite the fact one isn't separate from it. > > > > > > > > > > Silence was apparently Ramana Maharshi's guru, as well. > > > > > > > > > > He waxed poetically about it quite often. > > > > > > > > > Rightly so that people often use Ramana as an example that one does not need a guru but we know very little about Ramana's early devotional stages, his worship of Shiva in the form of the mountain. That may be the another reason why he never left the mountain. It's possible that Ramana's devotional love in time evolved into his Advaita teachings. Based on the terminology he was using, he was reading some Vedanta books which helped him to use the common terms that the people around him could understand. By the way when i speak to some Indian people they're often surprised that Ramana had any verbal teachings at all...they know him mainly as teaching with silence. > > > > > > > > > > In my view, the whole debate about whether guru is " necessary " is silly. > > > > > > > actually the debate is not whether the guru is necessary or not. i was just curious whether dan experienced guru love or not. > > > > it's possible to " get it " without the guru love. > > > > Agreed, and I agree also that " guru love " can be inducive to 'getting it' too, as long as that love is so complete that one forgets oneself. > > In my view, it can be 'gotten' by turning totally to oneself, or totally to another -- the " totally " being the golden key. > P.S. -- in turning totally to oneself, " other " dissolves... and with it, self. In turning totally to another, " self " dissolves... and with it, other. It's really very simple, but it must be total, complete. Partialness and compromise will not do the trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the love that isn't personalized nor based on emotions and the past is not the love offered by a personal being, which love is a disguised attempt to get something back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the typical love and adoration aimed at a guru is for the sake of having an ideal object that can be counted on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when there was love in my heart for maharaj, it happened by itself. there was no conscious effort to get anything back. there was nothing ideal object to be counted on. > > > > > > > > > > > > dan, did you ever experience guru love? > > > > > > > > > > hi hur - > > > > > > > > > > the love i've experienced toward human teachers, when that feeling arose, has been " of the moment. " > > > > > > > > > > not something i'd call " guru love. " > > > > > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > > > > > > > > i thought i posted a reply but it didn't appear. since i didn't copy it, i'll write another response... > > > > > > > > in a similar way the romantic love does, guru love does something to the brain chemistry. it's like a drug that enhances the " of the moment " love and makes it last longer. it's important because this love, coupled with intellectual understanding, shifts one's model of reality, bringing a different level of understanding. it's ironic that in nonduality world, this dualistic love still happens. > > > > > > thanks for explaining. > > > > > > do you love empty space? > > > > > > empty space is my guru. > > > > My guru is " Silence " . > > > > It's a great teacher -- there's much to 'learn' from it, despite the fact one isn't separate from it. > > > > Silence was apparently Ramana Maharshi's guru, as well. > > > > He waxed poetically about it quite often. > > > Rightly so that people often use Ramana as an example that one does not need a guru but we know very little about Ramana's early devotional stages, his worship of Shiva in the form of the mountain. That may be the another reason why he never left the mountain. It's possible that Ramana's devotional love in time evolved into his Advaita teachings. Based on the terminology he was using, he was reading some Vedanta books which helped him to use the common terms that the people around him could understand. By the way when i speak to some Indian people they're often surprised that Ramana had any verbal teachings at all...they know him mainly as teaching with silence. D: I remember that Ramana said that some people have a disincarnate guru. That guru's name is Herbie, which is a little known fact, finally safe to reveal to the world. Ramana said that some people have greatly influenced the world by going off to live by themselves in a cave. What he meant was that they changed the world by increasing the population of cave dwelling insects that live off of human feces. Although Ramana had some success as a guru, he never accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as his personal savior. For this reason, he wasn't able to sit at the right hand of God after he died. - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the love that isn't personalized nor based on emotions and the past is not the love offered by a personal being, which love is a disguised attempt to get something back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the typical love and adoration aimed at a guru is for the sake of having an ideal object that can be counted on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when there was love in my heart for maharaj, it happened by itself. there was no conscious effort to get anything back. there was nothing ideal object to be counted on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dan, did you ever experience guru love? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hi hur - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the love i've experienced toward human teachers, when that feeling arose, has been " of the moment. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not something i'd call " guru love. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i thought i posted a reply but it didn't appear. since i didn't copy it, i'll write another response... > > > > > > > > > > > > in a similar way the romantic love does, guru love does something to the brain chemistry. it's like a drug that enhances the " of the moment " love and makes it last longer. it's important because this love, coupled with intellectual understanding, shifts one's model of reality, bringing a different level of understanding. it's ironic that in nonduality world, this dualistic love still happens. > > > > > > > > > > thanks for explaining. > > > > > > > > > > do you love empty space? > > > > > > > > > > empty space is my guru. > > > > > > > > My guru is " Silence " . > > > > > > > > It's a great teacher -- there's much to 'learn' from it, despite the fact one isn't separate from it. > > > > > > > > Silence was apparently Ramana Maharshi's guru, as well. > > > > > > > > He waxed poetically about it quite often. > > > > > > > Rightly so that people often use Ramana as an example that one does not need a guru but we know very little about Ramana's early devotional stages, his worship of Shiva in the form of the mountain. That may be the another reason why he never left the mountain. It's possible that Ramana's devotional love in time evolved into his Advaita teachings. Based on the terminology he was using, he was reading some Vedanta books which helped him to use the common terms that the people around him could understand. By the way when i speak to some Indian people they're often surprised that Ramana had any verbal teachings at all...they know him mainly as teaching with silence. > > > > > > > In my view, the whole debate about whether guru is " necessary " is silly. > > > > actually the debate is not whether the guru is necessary or not. i was just curious whether dan experienced guru love or not. > > it's possible to " get it " without the guru love. the " guru " is whatever it is that kills you, but isn't interested in taking your body. of course, you have no way of knowing what this is. - d - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the love that isn't personalized nor based on emotions and the past is not the love offered by a personal being, which love is a disguised attempt to get something back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the typical love and adoration aimed at a guru is for the sake of having an ideal object that can be counted on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when there was love in my heart for maharaj, it happened by itself. there was no conscious effort to get anything back. there was nothing ideal object to be counted on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dan, did you ever experience guru love? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hi hur - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the love i've experienced toward human teachers, when that feeling arose, has been " of the moment. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not something i'd call " guru love. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i thought i posted a reply but it didn't appear. since i didn't copy it, i'll write another response... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in a similar way the romantic love does, guru love does something to the brain chemistry. it's like a drug that enhances the " of the moment " love and makes it last longer. it's important because this love, coupled with intellectual understanding, shifts one's model of reality, bringing a different level of understanding. it's ironic that in nonduality world, this dualistic love still happens. > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks for explaining. > > > > > > > > > > > > do you love empty space? > > > > > > > > > > > > empty space is my guru. > > > > > > > > > > My guru is " Silence " . > > > > > > > > > > It's a great teacher -- there's much to 'learn' from it, despite the fact one isn't separate from it. > > > > > > > > > > Silence was apparently Ramana Maharshi's guru, as well. > > > > > > > > > > He waxed poetically about it quite often. > > > > > > > > > Rightly so that people often use Ramana as an example that one does not need a guru but we know very little about Ramana's early devotional stages, his worship of Shiva in the form of the mountain. That may be the another reason why he never left the mountain. It's possible that Ramana's devotional love in time evolved into his Advaita teachings. Based on the terminology he was using, he was reading some Vedanta books which helped him to use the common terms that the people around him could understand. By the way when i speak to some Indian people they're often surprised that Ramana had any verbal teachings at all...they know him mainly as teaching with silence. > > > > > > > > > > In my view, the whole debate about whether guru is " necessary " is silly. > > > > > > > actually the debate is not whether the guru is necessary or not. i was just curious whether dan experienced guru love or not. > > > > it's possible to " get it " without the guru love. > > > > Agreed, and I agree also that " guru love " can be inducive to 'getting it' too, as long as that love is so complete that one forgets oneself. > > In my view, it can be 'gotten' by turning totally to oneself, or totally to another -- the " totally " being the golden key. here's another view, that may be related to what you say above: one dies nonvolitionally, without having any say in it, and not as a result of any action undertaken in the past, whether that would be loving a guru, or doing inquiry, or anything else. there is no foundation that this is built on. it dissolves any previous foundation, be that knowledge, love, wisdom, or good works - and dissolves the dissolution. yet, oddly, it only happens by not happening, and only happens with " readiness. " what the hell makes for " readiness " is beyond me ... but that's just the way it is ... - d - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 D: I remember that Ramana said that some people have a disincarnate guru. That guru's name is Herbie, which is a little known fact, finally safe to reveal to the world. Ramana said that some people have greatly influenced the world by going off to live by themselves in a cave. What he meant was that they changed the world by increasing the population of cave dwelling insects that live off of human feces. Although Ramana had some success as a guru, he never accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as his personal savior. For this reason, he wasn't able to sit at the right hand of God after he died. - D - You think you know it all. " Ramana said that some people have greatly influenced the world by going off to live by themselves in a cave " What you fail to see is that the human mind is one - not mine or ramanas or those who live in caves. No matter what is done, where it is lived, if one particular man/women is able to transcend the limitations of illusion it is a deed of the human mind, that in way or another is shared by all. Consciousness is then eventually changed. I think that is what is meant by the Christians: " Christ saved the world " . So did Buddha... and any one who transcended limitations. -geo- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor wrote: > > D: I remember that Ramana said that some people have a disincarnate guru. > > That guru's name is Herbie, which is a little known fact, finally safe to > reveal to the world. > > Ramana said that some people have greatly influenced the world by going off > to live by themselves in a cave. What he meant was that they changed the > world by increasing the population of cave dwelling insects that live off of > human feces. > > Although Ramana had some success as a guru, he never accepted the Lord Jesus > Christ as his personal savior. For this reason, he wasn't able to sit at the > right hand of God after he died. > > - D - > > You think you know it all. > " Ramana said that some people have greatly influenced the world by going off > to live by themselves in a cave " > What you fail to see is that the human mind is one - not mine or ramanas or > those who live in caves. D: I failed to see something Geo sees. What a wretch am I. I am going to go off and live in a cave. No matter what is done, > where it is lived, if one particular man/women is able to transcend the > limitations of illusion it is a deed of the human mind, that > in way or another is shared by all. D: That which is one doesn't do any sharing. > Consciousness is then eventually > changed. D: What you fail to see is that if a bug's life and a bug's consciousness is improved by the existence of human feces in a cave, then that the bug's consciousness is improved that very moment. No need for " eventually " if you are that bug. What you fail to see is that you are that bug. Go off and live in a cave! > I think that is what is meant by the Christians: > " Christ saved the world " . So did Buddha... and any one who transcended > limitations. D: Stop thinking, and transcend your limitations. - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 D: Stop thinking, and transcend your limitations. - D - geo: OK..sorry dan. Sometimes I indeed use a language that is really useless and counterproductive. I'll never again suggest to anyone that one may not know all one thinks that knows... (dont laugh...its serious) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2010 Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > D: I remember that Ramana said that some people have a disincarnate guru. > > > > That guru's name is Herbie, which is a little known fact, finally safe to > > reveal to the world. > > > > Ramana said that some people have greatly influenced the world by going off > > to live by themselves in a cave. What he meant was that they changed the > > world by increasing the population of cave dwelling insects that live off of > > human feces. > > > > Although Ramana had some success as a guru, he never accepted the Lord Jesus > > Christ as his personal savior. For this reason, he wasn't able to sit at the > > right hand of God after he died. > > > > - D - > > > > You think you know it all. > > " Ramana said that some people have greatly influenced the world by going off > > to live by themselves in a cave " > > What you fail to see is that the human mind is one - not mine or ramanas or > > those who live in caves. > > D: I failed to see something Geo sees. What a wretch am I. I am > going to go off and live in a cave. Amazing grace can save you. Just watch out for onions and jellyfish, especially fried up in combination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2010 Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the love that isn't personalized nor based on emotions and the past is not the love offered by a personal being, which love is a disguised attempt to get something back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the typical love and adoration aimed at a guru is for the sake of having an ideal object that can be counted on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when there was love in my heart for maharaj, it happened by itself. there was no conscious effort to get anything back. there was nothing ideal object to be counted on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dan, did you ever experience guru love? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hi hur - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the love i've experienced toward human teachers, when that feeling arose, has been " of the moment. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not something i'd call " guru love. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i thought i posted a reply but it didn't appear. since i didn't copy it, i'll write another response... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in a similar way the romantic love does, guru love does something to the brain chemistry. it's like a drug that enhances the " of the moment " love and makes it last longer. it's important because this love, coupled with intellectual understanding, shifts one's model of reality, bringing a different level of understanding. it's ironic that in nonduality world, this dualistic love still happens. > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks for explaining. > > > > > > > > > > > > do you love empty space? > > > > > > > > > > > > empty space is my guru. > > > > > > > > > > My guru is " Silence " . > > > > > > > > > > It's a great teacher -- there's much to 'learn' from it, despite the fact one isn't separate from it. > > > > > > > > > > Silence was apparently Ramana Maharshi's guru, as well. > > > > > > > > > > He waxed poetically about it quite often. > > > > > > > > > Rightly so that people often use Ramana as an example that one does not need a guru but we know very little about Ramana's early devotional stages, his worship of Shiva in the form of the mountain. That may be the another reason why he never left the mountain. It's possible that Ramana's devotional love in time evolved into his Advaita teachings. Based on the terminology he was using, he was reading some Vedanta books which helped him to use the common terms that the people around him could understand. By the way when i speak to some Indian people they're often surprised that Ramana had any verbal teachings at all...they know him mainly as teaching with silence. > > > > > > > > > > In my view, the whole debate about whether guru is " necessary " is silly. > > > > > > > actually the debate is not whether the guru is necessary or not. i was just curious whether dan experienced guru love or not. > > > > it's possible to " get it " without the guru love. > > the " guru " is whatever it is that kills you, but isn't interested in taking your body. of course, you have no way of knowing what this is. > > - d - > Sure -- and so, what " brings about readiness " (which you mentioned in another message) can't be known any more than " what brings about death " . It could be anything. From the perspective of time, the end of time means " less and less time " . And so, it's just as you say -- death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2010 Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 - Tim G. Nisargadatta Sunday, March 21, 2010 1:08 AM Re: How can I recognise a Sadguru -- Guru Love Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " geo " <inandor@> wrote: > > > > D: I remember that Ramana said that some people have a disincarnate > > guru. > > > > That guru's name is Herbie, which is a little known fact, finally safe > > to > > reveal to the world. > > > > Ramana said that some people have greatly influenced the world by going > > off > > to live by themselves in a cave. What he meant was that they changed the > > world by increasing the population of cave dwelling insects that live > > off of > > human feces. > > > > Although Ramana had some success as a guru, he never accepted the Lord > > Jesus > > Christ as his personal savior. For this reason, he wasn't able to sit at > > the > > right hand of God after he died. > > > > - D - > > > > You think you know it all. > > " Ramana said that some people have greatly influenced the world by going > > off > > to live by themselves in a cave " > > What you fail to see is that the human mind is one - not mine or ramanas > > or > > those who live in caves. > > D: I failed to see something Geo sees. What a wretch am I. I am > going to > go off and live in a cave. Amazing grace can save you. Just watch out for onions and jellyfish, especially fried up in combination. === And... don't forget your sleeping bag and pajamas, honey. avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 100320-1, 20/03/2010 Tested on: 21/3/2010 08:24:28 avast! - copyright © 1988-2010 ALWIL Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033 wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tim G. " <fewtch@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Hur Guler " <hurg@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the love that isn't personalized nor based on emotions and the past is not the love offered by a personal being, which love is a disguised attempt to get something back. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the typical love and adoration aimed at a guru is for the sake of having an ideal object that can be counted on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > when there was love in my heart for maharaj, it happened by itself. there was no conscious effort to get anything back. there was nothing ideal object to be counted on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dan, did you ever experience guru love? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hi hur - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the love i've experienced toward human teachers, when that feeling arose, has been " of the moment. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not something i'd call " guru love. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - d - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i thought i posted a reply but it didn't appear. since i didn't copy it, i'll write another response... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in a similar way the romantic love does, guru love does something to the brain chemistry. it's like a drug that enhances the " of the moment " love and makes it last longer. it's important because this love, coupled with intellectual understanding, shifts one's model of reality, bringing a different level of understanding. it's ironic that in nonduality world, this dualistic love still happens. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks for explaining. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > do you love empty space? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > empty space is my guru. > > > > > > > > > > > > My guru is " Silence " . > > > > > > > > > > > > It's a great teacher -- there's much to 'learn' from it, despite the fact one isn't separate from it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Silence was apparently Ramana Maharshi's guru, as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > He waxed poetically about it quite often. > > > > > > > > > > > Rightly so that people often use Ramana as an example that one does not need a guru but we know very little about Ramana's early devotional stages, his worship of Shiva in the form of the mountain. That may be the another reason why he never left the mountain. It's possible that Ramana's devotional love in time evolved into his Advaita teachings. Based on the terminology he was using, he was reading some Vedanta books which helped him to use the common terms that the people around him could understand. By the way when i speak to some Indian people they're often surprised that Ramana had any verbal teachings at all...they know him mainly as teaching with silence. > > > > > > > > > > > > > In my view, the whole debate about whether guru is " necessary " is silly. > > > > > > > > > > actually the debate is not whether the guru is necessary or not. i was just curious whether dan experienced guru love or not. > > > > > > it's possible to " get it " without the guru love. > > > > > > > Agreed, and I agree also that " guru love " can be inducive to 'getting it' too, as long as that love is so complete that one forgets oneself. > > > > In my view, it can be 'gotten' by turning totally to oneself, or totally to another -- the " totally " being the golden key. > > here's another view, that may be related to what you say above: one dies nonvolitionally, without having any say in it, and not as a result of any action undertaken in the past, whether that would be loving a guru, or doing inquiry, or anything else. > > there is no foundation that this is built on. > > it dissolves any previous foundation, be that knowledge, love, > wisdom, or good works - and dissolves the dissolution. Makes sense here. Things such as selfless service, 'devotion to God', etc. could seemingly lead up to what you note above, provided these are done for their own sake, not to 'get to some other state' -- as there's no 'other state' to get to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 Nisargadatta , " fix123br " <inandor wrote: > > D: Stop thinking, and transcend your limitations. > > - D - > > geo: OK..sorry dan. Sometimes I indeed use a language that is really useless and counterproductive. > I'll never again suggest to anyone that one may not know all one thinks that knows... (dont laugh...its serious) D: I stop thinking and know nothing. And that nothing is all that is. Is the " space " from which all experiences arise, and to which they return, and what they are, as they occur. Words are deceptive. Words make it seem like something is known. Thought is just an immediate occurrence that dissolves. There is no reliance on thought. - D - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.