The relevance of Vedanta and Gita for the modern times

[Guest guest]

Namaste:

 

Last month, I have visited several academic institutions which

include Birla Institute of Technology and Science (BITS), Pilani,

Jawaharlal Nehru University (JNU), New Delhi, University of Goa and

BITS, Goa Center to give a series of workshops/seminars on

Quantitative Methods for Research in social sciences. At BITS,

Pilani where I stayed for two weeks, I was asked to give a talk

on " Vedanta and Gita's Relevance in the Present Context " to the

faculty and staff members. More than my technical presentations, I

enjoyed my discussions on Vedanta. This topic was not my choice but

it was provided by one of the faculty members who had doubts on the

relevance of Vedanta and Gita during the modern times.

 

As Vedantins we all recognize the fact that the objectives of

Vedanta and Gita were to provide a meaningful philosophical

explanations to the purpose of human life. We all know that the

teachings provide a universal set of truths and values to peoples

from all cultures and the teachings are valid for all times. Aldus

Huxley in his book on Bhagavad Gita with the title – " The Perennial

Philosophy " argues that Gita is a universal philosophy and the

messages of Gita do not confine to any particular time. The primary

goal of Vedanta (also Gita) is to explain the nature of reality, the

self, the world and meaning and purpose of our existence. As a

matter of fact, it is more justifiable to conclude that Vedanta and

Gita are more relevant today than during the Vedic time period. Both

Vedanta and Gita emphasize and recognize Dharma is an integral

aspect of human life. Manu himself recognize that that Dharma can

never be static and that one should embrace the Dharma that is

relevant for a particular time. The relevance of Vedanta and Gita

is always subject to the underlined dharma implied for the present

time. The discussions went further on the role and relevance of

Karma Yoga in the modern context. A significant part of

discussions was focused on how to curtail one's Ego. I have

provided the following simple test to the audience to measure their

ego level (ego meter!). I thought that I would share this test with

you all so that you can enjoy measuring your own ego level.

 

 

A Meter to Diagnose the Level of one's EGO!

 

For spiritual practice, EGO is the barrier and should be curtailed.

Eight egoistic actions that are obstacles to peaceful worldly life

are classified. Avoidance of these actions has the potential to

enhance the spiritual life without sacrificing success in one's

worldly life. You can test on the basis of how you behave by

honestly answering the following eight types of EGO classified

below. You can measure each one of them on a scale of 0 to 10. For

example if you have complete control with your emotions, you can

record your score 0 and if you outburst quite often then you will

score 10. The cumulative maximum score is 80 and the minimum score

0.

 

A score of 60 and above will indicate you fall into the HIGH EGO

category.

A score between forty to59 will signify that you belong to MEDIUM

EGO category

A score between twenty to39 will make you a low ego category.

A score above 0 and below 19 means that your Ego is under control

With a score of 0 You are Indeed a Jnani!

 

EGO 1: Emotion - Grief - Overreaction (Sensory perceptions that

cause grief and reckless actions)

EGO 2: Exploitation - Greed - Oppression (Greedy actions that

oppress and exploit others)

EGO 3: Exaggeration - Gimmick - Opportunism (Gain personal profits

through exaggeration of facts)

EGO 4: Expectation - Glory - Ornamental (Conduct useless and

Glamorous actions for personal glory)

EGO 5: Externalization - Grumble - Opinionated (Stubbornly accuse

others of one's own mistakes)

EGO 6: Embarrassment - Guilt - Oscillation (Disturbed mind filled

with guilt and disputed notions)

EGO 7: Extremism - Grudge - Opposition (Express extreme views with

animosity and hostility)

EGO 8: Empty-headed - Guesswork - Obnoxious (Exhibiting ignorance by

constantly irritating others)

 

Note: Those who have read Reader's Digest would have noticed

similar types of tests to measure health, behavior patterns, etc. As

a minimum by self-administering this test, one can become more aware

of one's weaknesses. This awareness will help us to become a better

human being!

 

With my warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

[Guest guest]

> A Meter to Diagnose the Level of one's EGO!

 

Dear Sir,

 

It is very interesting and very much useful indeed! I think

periodically we should undertake such tests to know our ego level and

we should think over how to reduce the score when we undertake the

test next time. It really helps.

 

Thank you very much for this post.

 

Yours in Sri Ramakrishna,

 

Br. Vinayaka

[Guest guest]

H.N.Sreenivasa Murthy

Pranams to all.

Dear Readers,

 

advaitin , " Vinayaka " <vinayaka_ns wrote:

> A Meter to Diagnose the Level of one's EGO!

 

> Dear Sir,

> It is very interesting and very much useful indeed! I think

> periodically we should undertake such tests to know our ego level

and

> we should think over how to reduce the score when we undertake the

> test next time. It really helps.

 

When I read the above posting many questions arose:

A] Who undertakes tests?

B] The entity who undertakes such tests, is he a separate

entity from his ego?

C] Who checks the ego level ?

D] Who thinks over the question of reducing the level when

the next test is undertaken?

E] Are there two 'I's , one 'I' to conduct the tests

and another 'I' or ego whose level has to be tested?

AND FINALLY

F] IS NOT THE WHOLE THING A BIG JOKE UPON ONESELF

AND OTHERS?

I FEEL THAT THE WHOLE EXERCISE IS A FUTILE ONE.

IT IS LIKE TRYING TO SIT ON ONE'S OWN SHOULDERS

WHICH IS A FRUITLESS AND IMPOSSIBLE ONE.

 

With warm and respectful regards,

Sreenivasa Murthy

[Guest guest]

> When I read the above posting many questions arose:

> A] Who undertakes tests?

 

The Ego.

 

 

> B] The entity who undertakes such tests, is he a separate

> entity from his ego?

 

No

 

 

> C] Who checks the ego level ?

 

The Ego.

 

 

> D] Who thinks over the question of reducing the level when

> the next test is undertaken?

 

The Ego.

 

 

> E] Are there two 'I's , one 'I' to conduct the tests

> and another 'I' or ego whose level has to be tested?

> AND FINALLY

 

No - only one.

 

 

> F] IS NOT THE WHOLE THING A BIG JOKE UPON ONESELF

> AND OTHERS?

 

No because Bhagavan Krishna did not talk about " amanitvam, adambhitvam,

ahimsa, kshanti, arjavam " etc for fun. It means some effort is needed.

The dawn of knowledge is linked to purity of mind and intellect. Some

may say otherwise, but for dawn of knowledge Ishvara's grace is

absolutely necessary. I believe, the Mahaswamigal said something similar

in one of his opening talks on Sadhana.

 

 

> I FEEL THAT THE WHOLE EXERCISE IS A FUTILE ONE.

> IT IS LIKE TRYING TO SIT ON ONE'S OWN SHOULDERS

> WHICH IS A FRUITLESS AND IMPOSSIBLE ONE.

>

> With warm and respectful regards,

> Sreenivasa Murthy

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri Srinivasa Moorthy:

 

I believe that Sri Srinivas Moorthy (SSM) who signed at the end of

his postings (I don't know and can't say who he is) undertakes the

test.

SSM is not separate from his Ego.

SSM checks the level of his Ego.

SSM thinks over the question of reducing the level when the next

test is undertaken?

There is one only one SSM who conduct the tests and SSM recognizs

that his ego level has to be tested.

SSM should never consider this exercise a Big Joke and anything and

everything that we do need to be with Sraddha.

 

I hope that I have tried my level best to answer your question.

 

Vedanta will be useful and meaningful if we use Vadam to get

resolutions on our doubts. But if we use Vitandavadam, then instead

of gaining knowledge, we just allow the ignorance to dominate and

prevail. Please take few moments to think who is SSM? There is only

one 'I' but the I unforturnately identifies itself with <body-mind-

intellect> instead of Brahman. When the I detaches itself from the

false identity, the true idenity gets revealed. This is my

understanding of Vedanta. In our day to day life, Ego's presence is

very much visible (whether we like (accept) it or not and we have

find ways to get rid of it. We do use the thorne to get rid of the

thorne and similarly our ego need to to employed to get rid of the

ego.

 

With my warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

advaitin , " narayana145 " <narayana145

wrote:

>

> H.N.Sreenivasa Murthy

> Pranams to all.

> Dear Readers,

>

> advaitin , " Vinayaka " <vinayaka_ns@> wrote:

> > A Meter to Diagnose the Level of one's EGO!

>

> > Dear Sir,

> > It is very interesting and very much useful indeed! I think

> > periodically we should undertake such tests to know our ego

level

> and

> > we should think over how to reduce the score when we undertake

the

> > test next time. It really helps.

>

> When I read the above posting many questions arose:

> A] Who undertakes tests?

> B] The entity who undertakes such tests, is he a separate

> entity from his ego?

> C] Who checks the ego level ?

> D] Who thinks over the question of reducing the level when

> the next test is undertaken?

> E] Are there two 'I's , one 'I' to conduct the tests

> and another 'I' or ego whose level has to be tested?

> AND FINALLY

> F] IS NOT THE WHOLE THING A BIG JOKE UPON ONESELF

> AND OTHERS?

> I FEEL THAT THE WHOLE EXERCISE IS A FUTILE ONE.

> IT IS LIKE TRYING TO SIT ON ONE'S OWN SHOULDERS

> WHICH IS A FRUITLESS AND IMPOSSIBLE ONE.

>

> With warm and respectful regards,

> Sreenivasa Murthy

>

[Guest guest]

i for one really enjoyed undertaking this test .

 

As i confessed earlier i scored 80+20 points - a total of 100. the

20 bonus points was for being honest and for confessing i have a

bloated ego which is taller than Eiffel tower , higher than the

Himalayas and mightier than all the thousands of sumo wrestlers put

together .

 

for example

 

EGO 1: Emotion - Grief - Overreaction (Sensory perceptions that

cause grief and reckless actions)

 

i am guilty of this at at all times

EGO 2: Exploitation - Greed - Oppression (Greedy actions that

oppress and exploit others)

 

Yes, i do expolit others - make use of people to further my own

interests

 

EGO 3: Exaggeration - Gimmick - Opportunism (Gain personal profits

through exaggeration of facts)

 

i am a queen of exaggeration .

EGO 4: Expectation - Glory - Ornamental (Conduct useless and

Glamorous actions for personal glory)

 

i love to be the centre of attention! is it not obvious?

 

EGO 5: Externalization - Grumble - Opinionated (Stubbornly accuse

others of one's own mistakes)

 

yes! i also accuse others when i am the one who provokes others.

 

EGO 6: Embarrassment - Guilt - Oscillation (Disturbed mind filled

with guilt and disputed notions)

 

yes! i always feel guilty so i always apologize for my misconduct

 

EGO 7: Extremism - Grudge - Opposition (Express extreme views with

animosity and hostility)

 

CAN I BE BELLIGERENT! OH YES! I AM THE AMAZON WOMAN!

 

EGO 8: Empty-headed - Guesswork - Obnoxious (Exhibiting ignorance by

constantly irritating others)

 

OH! I LOVE TO IRRITATE AND ANNOY! i am someone who thrives on that!

 

This is not a joke! this is a good test to administer ! i think each

one of you should come forward and measure your 'ego' publicly!

 

it takes an egless person to connfess he/she has a false ego! smile

 

an ego maniac

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

advaitin , " Ram Chandran " <ramvchandran

wrote:

>

> Namaste Sri Srinivasa Moorthy:

>

> I believe that Sri Srinivas Moorthy (SSM) who signed at the end of

> his postings (I don't know and can't say who he is) undertakes the

> test.

> SSM is not separate from his Ego.

> SSM checks the level of his Ego.

> SSM thinks over the question of reducing the level when the next

> test is undertaken?

> There is one only one SSM who conduct the tests and SSM recognizs

> that his ego level has to be tested.

> SSM should never consider this exercise a Big Joke and anything

and

> everything that we do need to be with Sraddha.

>

> I hope that I have tried my level best to answer your question.

>

> Vedanta will be useful and meaningful if we use Vadam to get

> resolutions on our doubts. But if we use Vitandavadam, then

instead

> of gaining knowledge, we just allow the ignorance to dominate and

> prevail. Please take few moments to think who is SSM? There is

only

> one 'I' but the I unforturnately identifies itself with <body-mind-

> intellect> instead of Brahman. When the I detaches itself from the

> false identity, the true idenity gets revealed. This is my

> understanding of Vedanta. In our day to day life, Ego's presence

is

> very much visible (whether we like (accept) it or not and we have

> find ways to get rid of it. We do use the thorne to get rid of the

> thorne and similarly our ego need to to employed to get rid of the

> ego.

>

> With my warmest regards,

>

> Ram Chandran

>

> advaitin , " narayana145 " <narayana145@>

> wrote:

> >

> > H.N.Sreenivasa Murthy

> > Pranams to all.

> > Dear Readers,

> >

> > advaitin , " Vinayaka " <vinayaka_ns@> wrote:

> > > A Meter to Diagnose the Level of one's EGO!

> >

> > > Dear Sir,

> > > It is very interesting and very much useful indeed! I think

> > > periodically we should undertake such tests to know our ego

> level

> > and

> > > we should think over how to reduce the score when we undertake

> the

> > > test next time. It really helps.

> >

> > When I read the above posting many questions arose:

> > A] Who undertakes tests?

> > B] The entity who undertakes such tests, is he a

separate

> > entity from his ego?

> > C] Who checks the ego level ?

> > D] Who thinks over the question of reducing the level

when

> > the next test is undertaken?

> > E] Are there two 'I's , one 'I' to conduct the tests

> > and another 'I' or ego whose level has to be tested?

> > AND FINALLY

> > F] IS NOT THE WHOLE THING A BIG JOKE UPON ONESELF

> > AND OTHERS?

> > I FEEL THAT THE WHOLE EXERCISE IS A FUTILE ONE.

> > IT IS LIKE TRYING TO SIT ON ONE'S OWN SHOULDERS

> > WHICH IS A FRUITLESS AND IMPOSSIBLE ONE.

> >

> > With warm and respectful regards,

> > Sreenivasa Murthy

> >

>

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " narayana145 " <narayana145 wrote:

>

> H.N.Sreenivasa Murthy

> Pranams to all.

> Dear Readers,

>

>> E] Are there two 'I's , one 'I' to conduct the tests

> and another 'I' or ego whose level has to be tested?

> AND FINALLY

>

 

Namaste

 

I hope you have seen Post #35061 of Feb.6 captioned 'Two Selves'.

 

PraNAms to all advaitins.

profvk

[Guest guest]

Dear Vinayaka ji, I don't disagree on the need for self analysis or

cultivation of values but I have some comments on your responses. See

embedded

 

> Yes very much. When I do introspection I can objectify

 

Isn't this objectification just another thought in the mind or analysis

by buddhi - whichever way you want to take it ?

 

 

> 'vinayaka' who is full of ego who 'mis-behaves' quite often knowingly

> (by being carried away by emotions) of unknowingly (due to the

> workings of the subconscious mind which is the storehouse of good and

> bad samskaras) . Suppose during the heat of the conversation or

> arguments in the forum like this, if I misbehave or use harsh language

> in my replies, I can objectify myself when I take a pause/or when I

> think whether what I have done is right or wrong.

 

All this is still using the equipment run by awareness. When we

intellectually 'try' to be Sakshi based on theoretical knowledge of

Gita, isn't that just another conclusion of buddhi or path chosen by

buddhi ?

 

 

> In fact there can be more than Two! One is the 'pure I'

> the witness, second is the calm vinayaka who is trying to control the

> 'mis-behaving' vinayaka who is the third one.

 

Well the calm guy is really the buddhi trying to preach the sermon to

the mind/senses .

[Guest guest]

Namaste dear Srimathi Dhyanasaraswati:

 

As a person with a statistical background, I do not agree with your

score of 80 points. If you humbly admits your weeknesses (as you have

done so) then you can subtract 20 for being humble. A twenty bonus

points can be added to the final score those who exhibit humility while

conducting this test.

 

Also I suggest that you ask your daughter to evaluate your 'Ego' level

by answering the questions of the test. You can even ask several of

your close relatives to evaluate you. Take the scores of all of them

and average those scores and that will likely be closer to the true Ego

level. This statistical procedure is a scientifically valid method for

evaluation - known as the law of large numbers and will always prevail.

By using sufficiently larger number of people to score one's ego level

will yield closer to the correct score. Though I am addressing this

reply to you, this statistical statement is valid for everyone who

wants to find the true level of one's Ego!

 

When we become aware of our weeknesses and if we sincerely try to

correct them, we can certainly avoid the course of human tendencies and

redirect our path towards Divine tendencies. These are not my words and

they are the wisdom from the saints and sages of the Upanishads,

 

With my warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

advaitin , " dhyanasaraswati "

<dhyanasaraswati wrote:

>

> i for one really enjoyed undertaking this test .

>

> As i confessed earlier i scored 80+20 points - a total of 100. the

> 20 bonus points was for being honest and for confessing i have a

> bloated ego which is taller than Eiffel tower , higher than the

> Himalayas and mightier than all the thousands of sumo wrestlers put

> together .

[Guest guest]

Thank you Sri Ramji for your kind suggestions- i will follow all

your advice .

 

now, please consult Srimaan Sunderji. He is a psychotherapist. Am i

right? While a student is studying psychiatry , it is a course

requisite that before he graduates , the student is supposed to

undergo some psychiatric tests to prepare him for his career ahead,

To make sure he is capable of administering thwerapy to others . I

am told many famous therapists like Jung , Adler etc undertook these

tests .

 

May i therefore kindly suggest to you in all humility , you should

conduct a poll in advaitin list asking members here to measure

your 'ego' level - ( i am talking about your 'unripe' ego - not the

ripe 'ego' ) Would you be able to stand up to that personal

scrutiny ?It is said that one should lead by example !

 

Ramji , you and me are full of weaknesses , foibles . it is

therefore not correct to assume that only the other person has

demonic qualities and 'i' am full of divine qualities. The only

perfect purusha is Sri Ramachandra prabhu.

 

The test is a good barometer. But before using it on others , it

will be a good idea to administer it on oneself! no offence meant .

 

Try it ! be honest ! you will be surprised that you will score at

least 40 if not 80! smile!

 

love and blessings

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

advaitin , " Ram Chandran " <ramvchandran

wrote:

>

> Namaste dear Srimathi Dhyanasaraswati:

>

> As a person with a statistical background, I do not agree with

your

> score of 80 points. If you humbly admits your weeknesses (as you

have

> done so) then you can subtract 20 for being humble. A twenty bonus

> points can be added to the final score those who exhibit humility

while

> conducting this test.

>

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " bhatnagar_shailendra "

<bhatnagar_shailendra wrote:

>

>

> Dear Vinayaka ji, I don't disagree on the need for self analysis or

> cultivation of values but I have some comments on your responses. See

> embedded

>

> > Yes very much. When I do introspection I can objectify

>

> Isn't this objectification just another thought in the mind or analysis

> by buddhi - whichever way you want to take it ?

 

Dear Sir,

 

In the terminologies of vedanta/gita there is a difference between

buddhi and sense bound mind. To give an example we have the example of

chariot which comes in the katha upaniShad. There the horses are

equated with the senses mind with the rein, Intellect with the driver

of the chariot and finally the soul with the traveler sitting in the

chariot witnessing various scenes and taking different courses etc.

 

What I understand personally by this example is in the begging of

spiritual life we will be almost identical with the sense-bound mind

with absolutely no control on the course of our action. But once we

start practicing values/preparatory disciplines like shama dama etc.

we will be able to increase our awareness or sakshi bhava by

transcending the sense bound mind with the help of the purified

intellect. It can be called as another thought but with a difference

where the intellect gets an ability to detach itself from those

thoughts at will, which was absent in the earlier stage.

 

 

> > 'vinayaka' who is full of ego who 'mis-behaves' quite often knowingly

> > (by being carried away by emotions) of unknowingly (due to the

> > workings of the subconscious mind which is the storehouse of good and

> > bad samskaras) . Suppose during the heat of the conversation or

> > arguments in the forum like this, if I misbehave or use harsh language

> > in my replies, I can objectify myself when I take a pause/or when I

> > think whether what I have done is right or wrong.

>

> All this is still using the equipment run by awareness. When we

> intellectually 'try' to be Sakshi based on theoretical knowledge of

> Gita, isn't that just another conclusion of buddhi or path chosen by

> buddhi ?

 

I don't believe its just an intellectual gymnastics but rather a

definite experience which can be had in meditation. I feel that the

more the intellect is purified its proximity to self or Atman becomes

more and more and hence the sense bound mind can be objectified

clearly/distinctly.

 

 

> > In fact there can be more than Two! One is the 'pure I'

> > the witness, second is the calm vinayaka who is trying to control the

> > 'mis-behaving' vinayaka who is the third one.

>

> Well the calm guy is really the buddhi trying to preach the sermon to

> the mind/senses .

 

Yes, You are correct. But figuratively buddhi is called higher self

and the mind lower.

 

Yours in Sri Ramakrishna,

 

Br. Vinayaka

[Guest guest]

Namaste.

 

The thing we are discussing seems to be taking control over us.

 

Aren't we forgetting the age-old common-sense teaching? Ego is not

the problem. Not being aware that one has it is the problem. Ego is

role-related.

 

I am an employee and my employer slights me. I am hurt and miserable

as a result. If I know it is the employee-ego that is hurt and I am

not, then the problem is over.

 

Ego is something that we *have* and very badly need for our effective

operations in this beautiful transactional. It is not us. It is

something that is always to be witnessed. Occasionally, you can

groom it like you do your pet and keep it fit for right occasions.

But, you have to always remind yourself that you are you and not the

ego, ripe, unripe, rotten or whatever. Then you always remain

witnessing the ego. Devoid of possessive attachment from the owner,

the ego then can't afford to be unripe or rotten. It behaves and

knows its place.

 

PraNAms.

 

Madathil Nair