Guest guest Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 H.N.Sreenivasa Murthy Pranams to all. Dear Members, I came across with a passage which took my breath away. I quote the same for the benefit of all: All that is required for Freedom is to discern between transient thoughts and unchanging awareness. Simply be still for just a moment and all thoughts vanishes, but you yourself remain undeniably present naturally and effortlessly as unchanging awareness itself. Unquote: I request the enlightened and scholarly members to examine the statement in depth . Does it fall inline with the Upanishadic tradition? Does it reflect the methodology as given out by the Sages? Will a right and correct decision in this regard simplify Self-Realization? Has this matter been discussed earlier by the Advaitin group? With warm and respectful regards, Sreenivasa Murthy Here’s a new way to find what you're looking for - Answers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 advaitin , sreenivasa murthy <narayana145 wrote: > ---------------------------- > All that is required for Freedom is to discern between transient > thoughts and unchanging awareness. > Simply be still for just a moment and all thoughts vanishes, but > you yourself remain undeniably present naturally and effortlessly > as unchanging awareness itself. > Unquote: ---------------------------- Thank you Sreenivasa Murthyji for sharing very nice quote. " Simply be still " is simple to say, but hard to do. All great truths are quite simple, but practising is what presents challenges. It is like saying " be silent, be silent " . For those who are already silent there is no use saying it. And for those who need it, uttering " be silent, be silent " is disturbing the very silence they are looking for! It is a paradox. Still, we can't remain " still " easily and we say " be silent " almost helplessly! But we know that only silence and stillness remain when even thoughts for them subside. Or better, silence and stillness alone remained before any thoughts disturbed them temporarily. It may be safer and even better to see silence or stillness even amidst thoughts, instead of waiting for them to vanish altogether. If vanishing of thoughts and total stillness is what our sages were after, we would not be having the very teachings and scriptures they gave us. Because, in that state there is neither need for listening nor necessity for giving any teaching. All the sages and prophets seem to have experienced stillness amidst thoughts, peace in the middle of turbulence, and serenity even in battlefield. Krishna's exposition of Gita in a battlefield symbolises this most effectively and beautifully. Hari Om -Srinivas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 advaitin , sreenivasa murthy <narayana145 wrote: > > H.N.Sreenivasa Murthy > Pranams to all. > > Dear Members, > > I came across with a passage which took my breath away. I quote the same for the benefit of all: > > All that is required for Freedom is to discern between transient thoughts and unchanging awareness. > Simply be still for just a moment and all thoughts vanishes, but you yourself remain > undeniably present naturally and effortlessly as unchanging awareness itself. > Unquote: > > Has this matter been discussed earlier by the Advaitin group? > > With warm and respectful regards, > Sreenivasa Murthy > Namaste, IMHO that quote comes close to describing the practice taught in Vedanta called drk/drisha viveka, (seer/seen discrimination), but in some sense it misses by a mile. The drk is the Self. The drishas are everything else. Everything is a drisha (object) except myself. One can begin by seeing quite clearly that everything external to my body is an object, an object of observation. Known by me as an object, an object which changes. Then what about the body? Is it an object? Am I aware of it? Yes. What about the sense organs? Are they objects? Am I aware of them? Am I aware whether they are working or not? Yes. Do all of these objects change? Yes. Can I observe them change? Again, yes. Move in. What about thoughts? What about moods? What about emotions? Are they objects, objects of observation? Do they change? Can I watch them change? Again, yes. But is there something in all of this, something about 'me,' which does not change? Is there something which is always constant to every thought, mood, emotion, sensation, and object of cognition? What is it about 'me' which does not change? What is that? That which does not change, and is 'me,' is my Self, is Atma, is Brahman. Can the mind make this differentiation, this distinction, this discrimination between that which does not change and that which does? Yes, it can. IMHO drk/drisha viveka is the most powerful tool which the teachings of Vedanta have to offer for the direct and unmistakable recognition of the Self. However, I would question this portion of the quote which is offered above " ...Simply be still for just a moment and all thoughts vanishes, but you yourself remain... " In order to practice drk/drisha viveka, thoughts do not need to vanish. In fact it is the thoughts which are seen as objects, while my self is the constant unchanging ever present subject. Perhaps in the initial moment or instant of recognition of the Self, there is a cessation of thought. But as Subbuji once described so well, that instant is indeed instantaneous. In an instant avidya (ignorance of my Self as the constant, ever present, substrate reality) is destroyed. After that instantaneous moment of Self-recognition, moods, thoughts, emotions, cognitions, all of these go on as per usual. It is just that now, that which does not change (Brahman) has been clearly differentiated from that which does, i.e. changing objects of cognition.. If that were not the case, one would have to go on again and again, silencing the mind, in order to re-recognize the Self. This is not necessary, nor is it in-line with the teachings of Vedanta as I understand them. The other problem, which I personally have with the quote above is that it makes it sound as if one (without any type of mental preparation at all) can recognize the Self. This type of teaching is actually quite popular now amongst western teachers of what is sometimes termed 'neo-advaita.' Because nobody can really follow this type of recommendation, it can result in a lot of frustrated, seekers wandering around full of very low self-esteem, because they have not been able to just do this one `simple' thing, i.e. silence the mind. Many people feel that they have to somehow banish or stop all thoughts in order to recognize the Self. How can one even do that? It would be like saying, " Don't try to think of an elephant. " Then all one can think of is an elephant. It is very helpful to acquire a calm, quiet and subtle mind in order to recognize the Self. And gaining that type of mind is the aim of all of the sadhanas recommended by the teachings of Vedanta. A quiet and subtle mind is necessary to make the distinction between that which changes and that which does not. But it isn't so `simple,' until it is simply done. And it takes time and careful teaching. In other words, it's a process. So although in some sense the quote is nice, it isn't quite in-line with the teachings of Vedanta. At least it doesn't represent the teachings as far as I have been able to understand them.. Hari Om, Durga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 advaitin , " Srinivas Nagulapalli " <srini_nagul wrote: > > advaitin , sreenivasa murthy <narayana145@> > wrote: > > > ---------------------------- > > All that is required for Freedom is to discern between transient > > thoughts and unchanging awareness. > > Simply be still for just a moment and all thoughts vanishes, but > > you yourself remain undeniably present naturally and effortlessly > > as unchanging awareness itself. > > Unquote: > ---------------------------- > > Thank you Sreenivasa Murthyji for sharing very nice quote. > > " Simply be still " is simple to say, but hard to do. All great > truths are quite simple, but practising is what presents > challenges. > > It is like saying " be silent, be silent " . For those who are already > silent there is no use saying it. And for those who need it, > uttering " be silent, be silent " is disturbing the very silence > they are looking for! It is a paradox. Still, we can't remain > " still " easily and we say " be silent " almost helplessly! But we > know that only silence and stillness remain when even thoughts for > them subside. Or better, silence and stillness alone remained > before any thoughts disturbed them temporarily. > > It may be safer and even better to see silence or stillness even > amidst thoughts, instead of waiting for them to vanish altogether. > If vanishing of thoughts and total stillness is what our sages > were after, we would not be having the very teachings and > scriptures they gave us. Because, in that state there is neither > need for listening nor necessity for giving any teaching. > > All the sages and prophets seem to have experienced stillness > amidst thoughts, peace in the middle of turbulence, and serenity > even in battlefield. Krishna's exposition of Gita in a battlefield > symbolises this most effectively and beautifully. > > Hari Om > -Srinivas Namaste, thanks for this words... agree with this nice explanation about stillness & silence... the discussed " freedom " is the fruit of a more or less long path of practice, experience, understandings, inner love....means, a path to Awareness Awareness of/about real Self.... i don't think that anybody could jump into Awareness....with a mountain of Karma....just like that true....the one who is no more of this world....means, liberated from identification with body-mind-intellect.....this one live a life of peace & freedom.... Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 advaitin , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Namaste, > > thanks for this words... > agree with this nice explanation about stillness & silence... > > the discussed " freedom " is the fruit of a more or less long path of > practice, experience, understandings, inner love....means, a path to > Awareness > > Awareness of/about real Self.... > > i don't think that anybody could jump into Awareness....with a > mountain of Karma....just like that > > true....the one who is no more of this world....means, liberated from > identification with body-mind-intellect.....this one live a life of > peace & freedom.... > > Marc > Namaste Marc, On the other hand, no one can jump out of Awareness. No matter how hard one tries, it can't be done. You (meaning everyone) are already Awareness, full and complete. It is just a question of the mind's making that distinction, disentangling the identification of the Awareness, which you already are, as being one with the body/mind/and sense organs. This is the mistake. This is the avidya. The mind takes Awareness, which I already am, to be limited by the body and the mind. Awareness never has been and never can be limited by those things. So there is no need to 'jump' into anything. There is nothing different to jump into or out of. Self-realization is 'simply' a recognition of what is already true. I do agree that Self-realization is usually the fruit of a very long time of endeavor, no doubt, lifetimes and lifetimes. However, it is my understanding that Self-realization is not a 'new' experience, but rather the recognition of what has been and what is always true. (So, that's my two posts :-) Durga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 advaitin , " Durga " <durgaji108 wrote: > > advaitin , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33@> wrote: > > > > > Namaste, > > > > thanks for this words... > > agree with this nice explanation about stillness & silence... > > > > the discussed " freedom " is the fruit of a more or less long path of > > practice, experience, understandings, inner love....means, a path to > > Awareness > > > > Awareness of/about real Self.... > > > > i don't think that anybody could jump into Awareness....with a > > mountain of Karma....just like that > > > > true....the one who is no more of this world....means, liberated from > > identification with body-mind-intellect.....this one live a life of > > peace & freedom.... > > > > Marc > > > > Namaste Marc, > > On the other hand, no one can jump out of Awareness. > No matter how hard one tries, it can't be done. > > You (meaning everyone) are already Awareness, full > and complete. It is just a question of the mind's > making that distinction, disentangling the identification > of the Awareness, which you already are, as being one > with the body/mind/and sense organs. > > This is the mistake. This is the avidya. > The mind takes Awareness, which I already > am, to be limited by the body and the mind. > > Awareness never has been and never can be > limited by those things. > > So there is no need to 'jump' into anything. > There is nothing different to jump into or > out of. Self-realization is 'simply' > a recognition of what is already true. > > I do agree that Self-realization is usually > the fruit of a very long time of endeavor, > no doubt, lifetimes and lifetimes. > > However, it is my understanding that Self-realization > is not a 'new' experience, but rather the recognition > of what has been and what is always true. > > (So, that's my two posts :-) > Durga Namaste Durga, yes...ok...i see what you mean about Awareness maybe it's only little different point of view... nobody can't escape Awareness...kind of....is what i understand in your words.... i agree....please read the message about Brahman i just posted few minutes ago....maybe we get closer in " understanding " to each... thanks for your message Marc Ps: Self-Realisation is just ....to loose all the false ideas > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 sreenivasa murthy <narayana145 wrote: H.N.Sreenivasa Murthy Pranams to all. Dear Members, I came across with a passage which took my breath away. I quote the same for the benefit of all: All that is required for Freedom is to discern between transient thoughts and unchanging awareness. Simply be still for just a moment and all thoughts vanishes, but you yourself remain undeniably present naturally and effortlessly as unchanging awareness itself. Unquote: I request the enlightened and scholarly members to examine the statement in depth . Does it fall inline with the Upanishadic tradition? Does it reflect the methodology as given out by the Sages? Will a right and correct decision in this regard simplify Self-Realization? Has this matter been discussed earlier by the Advaitin group? Dear Murthy, I am reminded of the following statement made by J.Krishnamurthy before his passing away. A few people afflicted by great sorrow wanted him to give the essence of his teachings. He said, " Be still; don't make any efforts. The effortless and choiceless awareness, very much stressed by him, contains the insight into freedom. But freedom goes with great responsibility. It is not freedom from something, but freedom perse. It is worthwhile to understand the implication of concentration and distraction , which he mentioned. Concentration is a focussing of the mind. The mind, being distracted, wants to focus on the particular thought on which it attempts to concentrate. But this concentration itself is a form of distraction. Everything else than awareness is a distraction. Attention and choiceless awareness constitute the fabric of freedom. The arising of any thought is only by virtue of swerving from attention. Controlling that thought is another thought, a modified continuty. Only by being aware, which is non-volitional, the transition can happen, which is not a thought process, which no study of books can reveal. with warm regards and love Sankarraman .. Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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