Guest guest Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 Namaste Shri Dennis and Shrimati Durga, In message #35506 of 30th March, Shrimati Durga replies to Shri Dennis as follows: " Only self-knowledge removes self-ignorance, and that self-knowledge is gained through listening to the teachings wielded by a teacher who knows... " ... it does take a certain type of mind to be available... and not every person has that type of mind, nor do I think would they necessarily be able to acquire it without first (a) wanting to know and (b) having the trust that the words are true. " Yes, clearly Advaita requires a deep longing to know and a final grounding of trust in truth. However, that depth of longing and that grounding of trust can be expressed in ways that may appear quite paradoxical. For example, the demon Ravana is sometimes described as a great bhakta (devotee) of Shri Ram. But Ravana's bhakti (devotion) is expressed in the form of dvesha (hate). Ravana is so consumed by hatred that he thinks more and more obsessively about Shri Ram as his enemy. Thus, by a progressively consuming hatred, Ravana's mind is filled more and more with the thought of Shri Ram. And this fixation gets so intense that Ravana gets paradoxically more and more immersed in the advaitic nature of Shri Ram. Ultimately, Ravana is enlightened by his body's death on the battlefield, with his mind completely fixed on his enemy Shri Ram and thus surrendered to advaitic truth. To me, this story signifies a depth of longing and trust that must be quite beyond our feeble attempts to speak or think of it. Ananda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 Ananda Wood <awood wrote: Namaste Shri Dennis and Shrimati Durga, In message #35506 of 30th March, Shrimati Durga replies to Shri Dennis as follows: " Only self-knowledge removes self-ignorance, and that self-knowledge is gained through listening to the teachings wielded by a teacher who knows... " ... it does take a certain type of mind to be available... and not every person has that type of mind, nor do I think would they necessarily be able to acquire it without first (a) wanting to know and (b) having the trust that the words are true. " Yes, clearly Advaita requires a deep longing to know and a final grounding of trust in truth. However, that depth of longing and that grounding of trust can be expressed in ways that may appear quite paradoxical. For example, the demon Ravana is sometimes described as a great bhakta (devotee) of Shri Ram. But Ravana's bhakti (devotion) is expressed in the form of dvesha (hate). Ravana is so consumed by hatred that he thinks more and more obsessively about Shri Ram as his enemy. Thus, by a progressively consuming hatred, Ravana's mind is filled more and more with the thought of Shri Ram. And this fixation gets so intense that Ravana gets paradoxically more and more immersed in the advaitic nature of Shri Ram. Ultimately, Ravana is enlightened by his body's death on the battlefield, with his mind completely fixed on his enemy Shri Ram and thus surrendered to advaitic truth. To me, this story signifies a depth of longing and trust that must be quite beyond our feeble attempts to speak or think of it. Dear Sir, This seems to be an oversimplification being only a version of the Pouranika, having little to do with either advaita or devotion. with respectful regards Sankarraman Be a PS3 game guru. Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 Sankararamanji, i do not agree with you on your assessment of either Anandaji's writings or in particular your commentary on Anandaji's remarks on Ravana. True , Ravana started out as a Siva bhakta but at the time of death at the hands of Lord Rama , Ravana asked for forgiveness and it is said that Ravana attained MAOKSHA ( LIBERATION )just like HIRANYAKASHYAPU did at the hands of Lord Narasimha . What Anandaji says is very true - all the non -bhaktas are also thinking about God in a negative way all the time .... may be this is convulted logic - nonetheless true ! Yes ! Ravana was very busy all the time denying the existence of Rama ( Truth), IN THIS WAY HE WAS ALSO THINKING OF RAMA all the time although in a negative fashion. So , i totally agree with Anandaji when he says (Thus, by a progressively consuming hatred, Ravana's mind is filled more and more with the thought of Shri Ram. And this fixation gets so intense that Ravana gets paradoxically more and more immersed in the advaitic nature of Shri Ram) and in any case , we are having a beautiful discussion on 'Para brahman' in the group ... what is Ishwara but para brahman ? Bhagwan Krishna says in chapter 7 verse 24 , avyaktam vyaktim apannam manyante mam abuddhayah param bhavam ajananto mamavyayam anuttamam Translation (Ramanand Prasad) The ignorant think of Me, *the Para-Brahman,* as having no form or personality and I can take (any physical) form; because (these) people are not being able to comprehend My supreme imperishable and incomparable existence. Translator's note: The word 'Avyakta' has been used in verses 2.25, 2.28, 7.24, 8.18, 8.20, 8.21, 9.04, 12.01, 12.03, 12.05, and 13.05. It takes different meaning according to the context. Avyakta does not mean formless; it means unmanifest or a transcendental form that is invisible to our physical eyes. It is used in the sense of unmanifest Prakriti, and also in the sense of Para-Brahman. The Para- Brahman or absolute consciousness is higher than both Brahman and the unmanifest Prakriti. Para-Brahman (or Krishna) is imperishable, without any origin and end. Para-Brahman is not formless. It has Divya Roopa, a transcendental form and Supreme Personality. The ignorant think of the Lord as formless because He is not visible. LET ME ASK YOU THIS , SANKARARAMANJI , DOES IT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE TO THE LORD WHETHER A BHAKTA SHOWERS PRAISES ON HIM OR A NON BHAKTA HURLES ABUSES ON HIM ? it does not make any difference ! Just as sri Anandaji is neither elated by my praises of him or your criticism of him!Anandaji is beyond praise and criticism - that make him 'unique' in my eyes ... that is the hallmark of a a person situated in non duality. IT IS TRUE IT IS NOT EASY TO UNDERSTAND ANANDAJI but at least he is someone who is not simply 'parroting' what shankara said or gaudapada said - rather, he makes us think - there lies in his unique contribution to this group. on another note , it was interesting to read you handsome tribute to u.g, Krishnamurthy. Yes ! he was quite an unconventional man who said both rational and irrational things . He and jiddu Krishnamurthy HAD LOT IN COMMON - BOTH STARTED OUT AS THEOSOPHISTS AND BOTH DID NOT BELIEVE IN GURUDOM ! Thanks for all your insights on U.G.K - HE MUST BE SMILING IN HIS GRAVE . with regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 advaitin , " dhyanasaraswati " <dhyanasaraswati wrote: > > Sankararamanji, > > i do not agree with you on your assessment of either Anandaji's > writings or in particular your commentary on Anandaji's remarks on > Ravana. > > True , Ravana started out as a Siva bhakta but at the time of death > at the hands of Lord Rama , Ravana asked for forgiveness and it is > said that Ravana attained MAOKSHA ( LIBERATION )just like > HIRANYAKASHYAPU did at the hands of Lord Narasimha . > > What Anandaji says is very true - all the non -bhaktas are also > thinking about God in a negative way all the time .... may be this > is convulted logic - nonetheless true ! Yes ! Ravana was very busy > all the time denying the existence of Rama ( Truth), IN THIS WAY HE > WAS ALSO THINKING OF RAMA all the time although in a negative > fashion. > > So , i totally agree with Anandaji when he says > > (Thus, by a progressively consuming hatred, Ravana's mind is filled > more and more with the thought of Shri Ram. And this fixation gets > so intense that Ravana gets paradoxically more and more immersed in > the advaitic nature of Shri Ram) Namaste All, There is a paradox here of course. For filling his mind with the image of a concept builds the mind and strengthens the illusion. For how 'God' itself is an illusion and a concept. How can one be immersed in the advaitic nature when by definition it is dualistic........Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2007 Report Share Posted March 31, 2007 advaitin , " Tony OClery " <aoclery wrote: advaitin , " dhyanasaraswati " <dhyanasaraswati@> wrote: > > Sankararamanji, > > i do not agree with you on your assessment of either Anandaji's > writings or in particular your commentary on Anandaji's remarks on > Ravana. > > True , Ravana started out as a Siva bhakta but at the time of death > at the hands of Lord Rama , Ravana asked for forgiveness and it is > said that Ravana attained MAOKSHA ( LIBERATION )just like > HIRANYAKASHYAPU did at the hands of Lord Narasimha . > > What Anandaji says is very true - all the non -bhaktas are also > thinking about God in a negative way all the time .... may be this > is convulted logic - nonetheless true ! Yes ! Ravana was very busy > all the time denying the existence of Rama ( Truth), IN THIS WAY HE > WAS ALSO THINKING OF RAMA all the time although in a negative > fashion. > > So , i totally agree with Anandaji when he says > > (Thus, by a progressively consuming hatred, Ravana's mind is filled > more and more with the thought of Shri Ram. And this fixation gets > so intense that Ravana gets paradoxically more and more immersed in > the advaitic nature of Shri Ram) Namaste All, There is a paradox here of course. For filling his mind with the image of a concept builds the mind and strengthens the illusion. For how 'God' itself is an illusion and a concept. How can one be immersed in the advaitic nature when by definition it is dualistic........Tony. --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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