Weekly definition - 'sat' or 'existence'- Jnana Drishti ......

[Guest guest]

Thank you Sreenivasa-ji :

 

We all learn so much from your frequent pointers.

 

May i also please share with you WHAT Sri Ramana himself says on

this subject ?

 

" If other thoughts arise, one should, without attempting to

complete them, enquire, 'To whom did they occur?' What does it

matter if ever so many thoughts arise? At the very moment that each

thought rises, if one vigilantly enquires 'To whom did this appear?'

it will be known 'To me'. If one then enquires 'Who am I?' the mind

will turn back to its source and the thought that had arisen will

also subside. By repeatedly practising in this way, the mind will

increasingly acquire the power to abide at its source. When the

mind, which is subtle, is externalised via the brain and the sense

organs, names and forms, which are material, appear. When it abides

in the Heart, names and forms disappear. Keeping the mind in the

Heart, not allowing it to go out, is called 'facing the Self'

or 'facing inwards'. Allowing it to go out from the Heart is

termed 'facing outwards' When the mind abides in the Heart in this

way, the 'I', the root of all thoughts, [vanishes]. Having vanished,

the ever-existing Self alone will shine. The state where not even

the slightest trace of the thought 'I' remains is alone swarupa

[one's real nature]. This alone is called mauna [silence]. Being

still in this way can alone be called jnana drishti [seeing through

true knowledge]. Making the mind subside into the Self is 'being

still'. On the other hand, knowing the thoughts of others, knowing

the three times [past present and future] and knowing events in

distant places - these can never be jnana drishti. "

 

The word swarupa is another key word in the text. It means 'one's

real nature' or 'one's real form'. Each time the phrase 'one's real

nature' appears in this text, it is a translation of swarupa.

Bhagavan's repeated use of the word as a synonym for the Self

indicates that the Self is not something that is reached or

attained. Rather, it is what one really is, and what one always has

been. "

 

please read on

 

Mauna is another of the synonyms Bhagavan used to describe the

Self:

 

 

 

Q: What is mauna [silence]?

 

A: That state which transcends speech and thought is mauna…. That

which is, is mauna. Sages say that the state in which the

thought 'I' does not rise even in the least, alone is swarupa, which

means mauna. That silent Self is alone God

 

 

In jnana, the state of Self-knowledge or Self-realisation, there is

no one who sees, nor are there objects that are seen. There is only

seeing. The seeing that takes place in this state, called jnana

drishti, is both true seeing and true knowing. It is therefore

called 'seeing through true knowledge'.

 

In Day by Day with Bhagavan (17.10.46) Bhagavan points out that

this seeing is really being and should not be confused with or

limited to the sensory activity that goes under the same name: 'You

are the Self. You exist always. Nothing more can be predicated of

the Self than it exists. Seeing God or the Self is only being God or

your Self. Seeing is being.'

 

http://davidgodman.org/rteach/whoami1.shtml

 

Sreenivasa-ji , Bhagwan also says

 

" Keeping the mind fixed in the Self at all times is called self-

enquiry, whereas thinking oneself to be Brahman, which is sat-chit-

ananda [being-consciousness-bliss], is meditation. Eventually, all

that one has learnt will have to be forgotten. " ( including

chandogya upanshads ! )

 

Sreenivasa-ji ,if you are willing to foirget all you have learned ,

i am also willing to sit on my shoulders ! smile! i already know how

to stand on my head , do you ?

 

btw , sreenivasa ji , the very first verse in Ulladu Narpadu says :

 

Unless Reality exists, can thought of it arise? Since, devoid of

thought, Reality exists within as Heart, how to know the Reality we

term the Heart? To know That is merely to be That in the Heart.

 

ponder and contemplate on this , my friend!

[Guest guest]

H.N.Sreenivasa Muthy

Pranams to all.

 

advaitin , " dhyanasaraswati "

<dhyanasaraswati wrote:

>

> Thank you Sreenivasa-ji :

 

Dear Smt.Dhyanasaraswatiji,

I completely concur with aa what you have stated and I thank you

for helping to examine my understanding once again within myself.

 

I observe, after studying your reply, that the reply does not

contain answers to the questions and they have been conveniently

overlooked. I do not know the reason for the same.

 

The answers were given by Sri Bhagavan to various devotees ,

depending on whether they belonged to kindergarten level or

postgraduate level. What answer has been given to a particular

question at the kindergarten level gets nullified when answer is

given at postgraduate level. This can be seen very clearly When one

studies carefully the book " Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi " .

In the book Upadeshasaram by Sri Bhagavan, what has been stated

from verse-1 to verse-19 gets completely negated in verse-22. What

has been stated in verse-22 is the Absolute Truth. Each statement

holds good at its own level, but not beyond it. Hence one should not

stay permanently at the kindergarten level.We should raise from the

level of reality about creation To the level of realizing the

ABSOLUTE TRUTH which Sri Bhagavan states thus:

 

NOR CREATION NOR DESTRUCTION,

BOND NOR FREEDOM-WISH IS,

NOR SADHANA NOR SIDDHA.

OF ALL THE FINAL TRUTH THIS.

The above quotation is from the book " The Poems Of

Sri Ramana Maharshi " rendered into English by Sadhu Arunachala,

1967 edition, Chapter 'Nine stray Verses' page44.

NEITHER I AM STANDING ON MY HEAD NOR ON MY LEGS.

I AM STANDING ON MY OWN GLORY ,MYSELF

WHICH SUPPORTS THE WHOLE MANIFESTATION.

Please enjoy this fact.

 

With warm and respectful regards,

Sreenivasa Murthy

[Guest guest]

narayana145 <narayana145 wrote:

H.N.Sreenivasa Muthy

Pranams to all.

 

advaitin , " dhyanasaraswati "

<dhyanasaraswati wrote:

>

>

for helping to examine my understanding once again within myself.

 

I observe, after studying your reply, that the reply does not

contain answers to the questions and they have been conveniently

overlooked. I do not know the reason for the same.

 

The answers were given by Sri Bhagavan to various devotees ,

depending on whether they belonged to kindergarten level or

postgraduate level. What answer has been given to a particular

question at the kindergarten level gets nullified when answer is

given at postgraduate level. This can be seen very clearly When one

studies carefully the book " Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi " .

In the book Upadeshasaram by Sri Bhagavan, what has been stated

from verse-1 to verse-19 gets completely negated in verse-22. What

has been stated in verse-22 is the Absolute Truth. Each statement

holds good at its own level, but not beyond it. Hence one should not

stay permanently at the kindergarten level.We should raise from the

level of reality about creation To the level of realizing the

ABSOLUTE TRUTH which Sri Bhagavan states thus:

 

NOR CREATION NOR DESTRUCTION,

BOND NOR FREEDOM-WISH IS,

NOR SADHANA NOR SIDDHA.

OF ALL THE FINAL TRUTH THIS.

The above quotation is from the book " The Poems Of

Sri Ramana Maharshi " rendered into English by Sadhu Arunachala,

1967 edition, Chapter 'Nine stray Verses' page44.

NEITHER I AM STANDING ON MY HEAD NOR ON MY LEGS.

I AM STANDING ON MY OWN GLORY ,MYSELF

WHICH SUPPORTS THE WHOLE MANIFESTATION.

Please enjoy this fact.

Dear Mr Murthy,

No doubt, what you say has great relevance in the

light of the fact that Bhaghavan mostly talked from the standpoint of

dhristi-shristivada, which he said was a starting point for ajata-vada. But, one

has to bear in the mind that mere intellectual understanding of the truth

doesn't mean abidance in the truth, such knowledge,that is the intellectual

parading of what has been written in the scriptures, being only a bright form of

the underlying ignorance which we escape from through these ornamental sayings.

That is more dangerous, having been come down upon by Bhaghavan in unequivocal

terms when he says that the one who is attached to mere scholarship is labouring

under a greater samsaric delusions than the actual samsari. You are very

excellent in your pinpointing great mahavakyas, but the mere repetition of them

is a perpetration of untruth. Unless one has transcended this duality, feeling

the experience of the self unbrokenly, one cannot sit

in judgments on the other so called mediocre approaches. All of us are begging,

some for a few rupees, others being after some Eldorado, all being an illusion.

A bright illusion is not a truth, more dangerous than the dark illusions, which

aspect has been pointed out in Isa Upanishads. Krishanmurthy very often used to

say, " Knowledge is always within the shadow of ignorance. " Great Masters like

Nisargdatta have got a right to decry so-called kindergarden approaches, that

being born out of their compassion to lift the consciousness of some

individuals, who, such masters might be sure, require this cleansing process.

When somebody says, ' silencing I thought,' in their unformulated intuition they

mean only the royal, sovereign, path of self-enquiry taught by Bhaghavan spoken

in a slightly different language though. Word is not the thing. Has not

Patanjali, the father of yoga said, " In Savitarka Samadhi words, the objects

intended by the words, and the knowledge of the

objects, are mixed up, and the yogi who steers clear of this mixing up through

Viveka-kyati has insight into the entire universe of illusion, and ultimately

even tears the veil of Prakriti through dharma-megha samadhi, abandoning even

the enquiry of distinction between the knowledge of the satva and purusa, the

former being merely a bright illusion of the Prakrithi at the highest level, and

the latter the transcendence of all the vehicles of the Prakrity, when the soul

rests in transcendental aloneness. Saint Thayumanavar sings, " In the

transcendental world of aloneness of Thine, where are all these laws of

Prakrithi, where is the so-called order and rhythm of the created Universe,

where is justice, where are the gods, where are all these host of dualistic

illusions. " That is the lofty height of advaita, which one cannot dream of

attaining unless and until all dualistic illusions are seen through. We cannot

conceive that with this heavy dualistic baggage by carrying yet

another heavy baggage of the intellectual advaita. Bhaghavan, out of compassion

talks to different people to suit their requirements, as you rightly say. But,

didn't Bhaghvan tell U.G. Krishnamurthy that advaita did not admit of any level,

which if it were true, from the highest scholarship of the Faustian advaitin to

the stone worshipper, all levels constitute illusions, one illusion not being

superior to the other. With so much the reality of the drisya being ingrained in

our psyche, with the drik also being confounded to be yet another drisya, how

can we condemn the lower levels, except perhaps that in our subjective

predilections we might find our inner organs more suited to intellectual way of

looking at things, which is not integral anubhava. All conceptualizations,

concepts, ideations, all these things are only in the realm of dvaita. But the

immanent teleology of life is only advaita. Even the so-called dvaitin in his

unformulated intuition is seeking only the

advaitic knowledge, except that his verbalization is some what inadequate. Even

an existentialist down to the boots like Jean-Paul-Sartre is only an advaitin

when he hits upon advaita through his glorious statements such as, " Existence

precedes Essence, " and, " Man is condemned to be free. " All of us are

self-conscious dasein at different levels alienated from Being thrown into the

bitterness of this existential nausea and alienation, none of our moorings being

superior or inferior. I hold you in high esteem, Murthy, but you have to

appreciate different Weltanschaungs.

 

With respectful regards and love

Sankarraman

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Thank you Sankararaman-ji, my shining knight in armor!

 

i particularly resonated with these words in your post

 

(All of us are self-conscious dasein at different levels alienated

from Being thrown into the bitterness of this existential nausea and

alienation, none of our moorings being superior or inferior. I hold

you in high esteem, Murthy, but you have to appreciate different

Weltanschaungs.)

 

That is why SANKARARAMANJI ! YOU ARE PRETTY UNIQUE - YOU ARE ABLE TO

APPRECIATE DIFFERENT VIEWS OF WORLD AND LIFE BY DIFFERENT PHILSOPHERS

FROM U.G.K TO THAYUMANAVAR. THIS IS THE SIGN OF A MAN OF 'EXPANDED

CONSCIOUSNESS'- A TRUE TANTRIK.

 

on another note , there is a very interesting story that my guruji

always used to narrate - a single straw by itself is powerless but

when you gather many straws and make it into a broom you can sweeo an

entire room . That is the beauty of a holy Satsangha like this -

different viewpoints, different personalities but when joined together

they make a powerful team .( WE NEED THE ANANDAJIS, THE TONYS , AND

THE OTHERS .... )

 

on another note , for those who decry the importance of Yoga in

spiritual path , let me narrate this from the chandogya upanishads

 

THE IMPORTANCE OF BREATH- PRANA

 

Once upon a time the gods and the demons, both descendants of

Prajapati, were engaged in a fight. In that fight, the gods performed

the rites of the Udgatir priests resolving, `With this we shall defeat

them'.

 

Then they meditated on (the deity of) Prana connected with the nose,

as Udgitha; the demons pierced it with evil. Therefore with it, the

nose, one smells both the fragrant and the foul, for it has been

pierced with evil.

 

Then they meditated on (the deity of) speech as Udgitha; the demons

pierced it with evil. Therefore with it one speaks both truth and

untruth, for it has been pierced with evil.

 

Then they meditated on (the deity of) eye as Udgitha; the demons

pierced it with evil. Therefore with the eye one sees both the sightly

and the unsightly, for it has been pierced with evil.

 

Then they meditated on (the deity of) ear as Udgitha; the demons

pierced it with evil. Therefore with the ear one hears both the

pleasant and the unpleasant, for it has been pierced with evil.

 

Then they meditated on (the deity of) mind as Udgitha; the demons

pierced it with evil. Therefore with the mind one thinks both good and

evil thoughts, for it has been pierced with evil.

 

Then they meditated on the Prana in the mouth as Udgitha. The demons

came in clash with it and were destroyed, just as a lump of clay is

destroyed, striking against a hard rock.

 

Thus it is that the Prana in the mouth has not been destroyed and is

pure. Even as a lump of clay striking against a hard rock is

destroyed, so will he be destroyed who wishes to do evil to one who

knows this (the purity of Prana) or who (actually) injures that

knower, for he is like a hard rock.

 

With this Prana in the mouth one discerns neither sweet smell nor

foul, for it is free from sin. What one eats or drinks through this,

even with that he maintains the other Pranas. And not finding this at

the time of death, the Prana in the mouth and its dependants depart;

and thus indeed one opens the mouth at the time of death.

 

 

IN FACT , SRI rAMANA SAYS " By controlling the breath, the mind comes

to rest like a bird in a net. Breath control is a means to control THE

MIND "

 

ON ANOTHER NOTE AS OUR MOST RESPECTED SADAJI SAYS IN POST NUMBER

34323 ( WHAT IS MEDITATION?)

 

Mandukya UPANISHAD MANTRA 7

...naantah prajnam, na bahir prajnam, ...

thus negating the observer and

adRishTam, avyavahaaryam, agraahyam ..

negating the observed and ultimately establishing oneself as

ekaatma pratyayasaaram,prapancopasamam ..

the I, the consciousness that is the substantive for the

entire subject-objectworlds of plurality.

 

This is the self-enquiry or who am I that the Upanishads

have been tellingus to find out which BhagavAn Ramana Maharshi

emphasized in his sat Darshan -the vision of the

truth.

 

SADAJI CONCLUDES

 

" To shift from the observed to the observer is easier by training the

mind to be an silent observer - by observing the breathing etc. Japa

and dhyaanam provides a means to provide a limited observations so

that mind does not get hijacked by the observations. "

 

sreenivasaji , pl read all the upanishads not just some ! Smile!

 

love and regards