WAKING STATE

[Guest guest]

From; H.N.Sreenivasa Murthy

Pranams to all.

 

Dear Readers,

 

Durgaji writes :

 

" The dream example (if properly handled) is a very

very powerful one. It has been sometimes said

to point out 'the Achilles heel of the whole creation.'

 

The dream comes from me, is sustained by me,

and resolves into me. Upon awakening from the

dream I realize that the dream and everything

in it, animate and inanimate, was only myself. " .

 

FROM WHOM OR FROM WHERE DOES WAKING STATE COME?

 

DOES IT COME FROM ME OR DOES IT COME FROM " I " ?

 

With warm and respectful regards,

Sreenivasa Murthy

 

 

 

 

 

Here’s a new way to find what you're looking for - Answers

 

 

[Guest guest]

advaitin , sreenivasa murthy <narayana145

wrote:

>

> From; H.N.Sreenivasa Murthy

> Pranams to all.

>

> Dear Readers,

>

> Durgaji writes :

>

> " The dream example (if properly handled) is a very

> very powerful one. It has been sometimes said

> to point out 'the Achilles heel of the whole creation.'

>

> The dream comes from me, is sustained by me,

> and resolves into me. Upon awakening from the

> dream I realize that the dream and everything

> in it, animate and inanimate, was only myself. " .

>

> FROM WHOM OR FROM WHERE DOES WAKING STATE COME?

>

> DOES IT COME FROM ME OR DOES IT COME FROM " I " ?

>

> With warm and respectful regards,

> Sreenivasa Murthy

 

Namaste SM,

 

Like the dream but only of thicker vibrations. Comes from the same

place-nowhere...Tony.

[Guest guest]

Dear Tony,

 

You said, regarding wakiing, that it is: " Like the dream but only of thicker

vibrations. Comes from the same

place-nowhere. " .

 

You mean like a skipping rope instead of a piano wire? And that it

materialises out of nothing?

 

Really, Tony, statements such as these help no one (and, yes I know that

there is no one needing any help 'in reality' because there never was a

creation). But all discussions take place in vyavahAra, including those on

this discussion group, and the rules of logic and reason (and diplomacy!)

all apply. Please respect them.

 

Best wishes,

 

Dennis

 

 

 

 

 

advaitin [advaitin ] On Behalf

Of Tony OClery

05 April 2007 17:50

advaitin

Re: WAKING STATE

 

 

..

 

<http://geo./serv?s=97359714/grpId=15939/grpspId=1705075991/msgId=3

5566/stime=1175791816/nc1=4507179/nc2=3848577/nc3=3848638>

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " Dennis Waite " <dwaite wrote:

>

> Dear Tony,

>

> You said, regarding wakiing, that it is: " Like the dream but only of

thicker

> vibrations. Comes from the same

 

> Dennis

 

Namaste Dennis,

 

Yes I shouldn't have been so abrupt, I apologise,but sometimes the

discussions are interminable and circumambulatory.

A dream or waking state is the same thing except that in the dream the

particles or substance are subtle, yet matter all the same. The little

'I' has moved into that dimensional plane for a while. That is all,

and it creates its own world. After death is somewhat similar yet

there is an agreement amongst various spirits to create a common image

or experience much the same as the agreed upon waking state....Tony.

[Guest guest]

advaitin , sreenivasa murthy <narayana145

wrote:

>

> From; H.N.Sreenivasa Murthy

> Pranams to all.

>

> Dear Readers,

>

> Durgaji writes :

>

> " The dream example (if properly handled) is a very

> very powerful one. It has been sometimes said

> to point out 'the Achilles heel of the whole creation.'

>

> The dream comes from me, is sustained by me,

> and resolves into me. Upon awakening from the

> dream I realize that the dream and everything

> in it, animate and inanimate, was only myself. " .

>

> FROM WHOM OR FROM WHERE DOES WAKING STATE COME?

>

> DOES IT COME FROM ME OR DOES IT COME FROM " I " ?

>

> With warm and respectful regards,

> Sreenivasa Murthy

 

Dear Sir,

 

We can get an answer to the questions like from where, for what

reason etc. only when we 'wake up' from the waking state itself, not

before. But when we wake up (if at all!:-))the question itself

becomes meaningless.

 

Yours in Sri Ramakrishna,

 

Br. Vinayaka

[Guest guest]

sreenivasa murthy <narayana145 wrote: From;

H.N.Sreenivasa Murthy

Pranams to all.

 

Dear Readers,

 

Durgaji writes :

 

" The dream example (if properly handled) is a very

very powerful one. It has been sometimes said

to point out 'the Achilles heel of the whole creation.'

 

The dream comes from me, is sustained by me,

and resolves into me. Upon awakening from the

dream I realize that the dream and everything

in it, animate and inanimate, was only myself. " .

 

FROM WHOM OR FROM WHERE DOES WAKING STATE COME?

 

DOES IT COME FROM ME OR DOES IT COME FROM " I " ?

Dear Murthy,

Where can it come from except one's own Self, not the

little self if that were your poser. Equally good is it to say that it comes

from nowhere, merges nowhere having been existent at some point of time to abide

in an unmanifest state to come back again, it all being an unmitigated illusion.

If one were to assume that it came from somewhere, would not one be tantalized

by the mare's nest of tracing its origin in time and being endlessly closetted

in time instead of taking a journey, a swift journey, as it were, which is not

in terms of time and space, logic and reason, but leaving behind all doubts and

dualities born of illusion which can never be remedied by another illusion of

any state waking or all its offshoots.All our experiences of the world are

self-contradictory and not real, since reality has to be self-consistent, rather

self-existent, which is not the case with the three states, the one state not

capable of being related to the other

states through causation, the self also not being a cause in a linear sense,

but the absolute reality.Everything in the world leads us only to a cul-de-sac,

making us beat a retreat.All knowlede, involving as it does a fragmentation of

truth, cannot make us penetrate this ignorance.

 

With regards

Sankarraman

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

> Durgaji writes :

>

> " The dream example (if properly handled) is a very

> very powerful one. It has been sometimes said

> to point out 'the Achilles heel of the whole creation.'

>

> The dream comes from me, is sustained by me,

> and resolves into me. Upon awakening from the

> dream I realize that the dream and everything

> in it, animate and inanimate, was only myself. " .

>

> FROM WHOM OR FROM WHERE DOES WAKING STATE COME?

>

> DOES IT COME FROM ME OR DOES IT COME FROM " I " ?

>

> With warm and respectful regards,

> Sreenivasa Murthy

 

Hari OM and Pranams.

 

If we reflect on the differences between :-

 

" Dream individual and Dream World "

" One Dream individual and another Dream individual "

" One Dream Object and another Dream Object "

 

We realise that there are no differences, because waking individual's

mind projects " Dream World " , " Dream Time " , " Dream space " , " Dream

individual " and " Other Dream individuals " too.

 

If we then compare the relationship between :-

 

" Dream world and Dream individual "

and

" Dream world and Waking individual "

 

We realise that Dream individual and Waking individual are like two

birds sitting on one tree. One sitting on lower branch eating lots of

fruits and lamenting if some of them are bitter and the other bird

sitting at the top just watching but not getting involved at all.

Dream individual enjoys and suffers from world of Dream and takes it

to be real and Waking individual is just unaffected Knower of it.

 

After this if we ask what is the difference between

 

" Dream Individual and Waking individual "

 

We realise that the only difference is one is 'involved in it and

takes it to be real' and the other is 'unaffected by it and

understands it as dream'.

 

So then we have to ask ourselves how can I wake up from

this 'waking'? How can I be 'Waking Individual' of waking? The answer

will be by stopping our mind from flowing out of apertures of sense

organs rushing to experience sense objects (because that " wanting

to experience " is what makes us 'dream individual' of waking), by

remaining as unaffected knower of 'waking world', by understanding

that this world is dream. When we do this sadhana day in and day out

we will wake up to 'Waker of Waking World' the Almighty Bhagwan !

 

Pranams and Love.

[Guest guest]

Hi Tony,

 

You say: " After death is somewhat similar yet

there is an agreement amongst various spirits to create a common image

or experience much the same as the agreed upon waking state. "

 

Where is your evidence for this? 'Agreement amongst various spirits'?? Is

this Advaita philosophy? Could you give a scriptural reference?

 

Best wishes,

Dennis

 

 

 

 

advaitin [advaitin ] On Behalf

Of Tony OClery

05 April 2007 21:08

advaitin

Re: WAKING STATE

 

 

..

 

<http://geo./serv?s=97359714/grpId=15939/grpspId=1705075991/msgId=3

5568/stime=1175803697/nc1=4507179/nc2=3848629/nc3=3848590>

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " Dennis Waite " <dwaite wrote:

>

> Hi Tony,

>

> You say: " After death is somewhat similar yet

> there is an agreement amongst various spirits to create a common

image

> or experience much the same as the agreed upon waking state. "

>

> Where is your evidence for this? 'Agreement amongst various

spirits'?? Is

> this Advaita philosophy? Could you give a scriptural reference?

>

> Best wishes,

> Dennis

 

 

===

 

Dear Dennis-ji,

 

Namaste,

 

Similer thought can be found in one of the lectures of Swami

Vivekananda which is as under:

 

The Complete Works of Swami Vivekananda

Volume 2 [ Page : 278 ]

THE REAL AND THE APPARENT MAN

 

Birth and death are in nature, not in you. Yet the ignorant

are deluded; just as we under delusion think that the sun is moving

and not the earth, in exactly the same way we think that we are

dying, and not nature. These are all, therefore, hallucinations.

Just as it is a hallucination when we think that the fields are

moving and not the railway train, exactly in the same manner is the

hallucination of birth and death. When men are in a certain frame of

mind, they see this very existence as the earth, as the sun, the

moon, the stars; and all those who are in the same state of mind see

the same things. Beyond you and me there may be millions of beings

on different planes of existence. They will never see us, nor we

them; 'we only see those who are in the same state of mind and on

the same plane with us.' Those musical instruments respond which

have the same attunement of vibration, as it were; if the state of

vibration, which they call " man - vibration " , should be changed, no

longer would men be seen here; the whole " man - universe " would

vanish, and instead of that, other scenery would come before us,

perhaps gods and the god - universe, or perhaps, for the wicked man,

devils and the diabolic world; but all would be only different views

of the one universe. It is this universe which, from the human

plane, is seen as the earth, the sun, the moon, the stars, and all

such things -- it is this very universe which, seen from the plane

of wickedness, appears as a place of punishment. And this very

universe is seen as heaven by those who want to see it as heaven.

Those who have been dreaming of going to a God who is sitting on a

throne, and of standing there praising Him all their lives, when

they die, will simply see a vision of what they have in their minds;

this very universe will simply change into a vast heaven, with all

sorts of winged beings flying about and a God sitting on a throne.

These heavens are all of man's own making. So what the dualist says

is true, says the Advaitin, but it is all simply of his own making.

These spheres and devils and gods and reincarnations and

transmigrations are all mythology; so also is this human life. The

great mistake that men always make is to think that this life alone

is true. They understand it well enough when other things are called

mythologies, but are never willing to admit the same of their own

position.

 

 

Yours in Sri Ramakrishna,

 

Br. Vinayaka

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " Dennis Waite " <dwaite wrote:

>

> Hi Tony,

>

> You say: " After death is somewhat similar yet

> there is an agreement amongst various spirits to create a common image

> or experience much the same as the agreed upon waking state. "

>

> Where is your evidence for this? 'Agreement amongst various

spirits'?? Is

> this Advaita philosophy? Could you give a scriptural reference?

>

> Best wishes,

> Dennis

 

Namaste,

 

The only one that comes to mind immediately is Vivekananda, when he

said that various guru worshipers and religions, tend to congregate on

the subtle planes after death.

Sankara didn't deny the existence of gods and devas and demigods

within illusion either.......I will find some references........Tony.

[Guest guest]

Vinayaka <vinayaka_ns wrote: ---

>

 

===

 

Dear Dennis-ji,

 

 

 

Birth and death are in nature, not in you. Yet the ignorant

are deluded; just as we under delusion think that the sun is moving

and not the earth, in exactly the same way we think that we are

dying, and not nature. These are all, therefore, hallucinations.

Just as it is a hallucination when we think that the fields are

moving and not the railway train, exactly in the same manner is the

hallucination of birth and death. When men are in a certain frame of

mind, they see this very existence as the earth, as the sun, the

moon, the stars; and all those who are in the same state of mind see

the same things. Beyond you and me there may be millions of beings

on different planes of existence. They will never see us, nor we

them; 'we only see those who are in the same state of mind and on

the same plane with us.' Those musical instruments respond which

have the same attunement of vibration, as it were; if the state of

vibration, which they call " man - vibration " , should be changed, no

longer would men be seen here; the whole " man - universe " would

vanish, and instead of that, other scenery would come before us,

perhaps gods and the god - universe, or perhaps, for the wicked man,

devils and the diabolic world; but all would be only different views

of the one universe. It is this universe which, from the human

plane, is seen as the earth, the sun, the moon, the stars, and all

such things -- it is this very universe which, seen from the plane

of wickedness, appears as a place of punishment. And this very

universe is seen as heaven by those who want to see it as heaven.

Those who have been dreaming of going to a God who is sitting on a

throne, and of standing there praising Him all their lives, when

they die, will simply see a vision of what they have in their minds;

this very universe will simply change into a vast heaven, with all

sorts of winged beings flying about and a God sitting on a throne.

These heavens are all of man's own making. So what the dualist says

is true, says the Advaitin, but it is all simply of his own making.

These spheres and devils and gods and reincarnations and

transmigrations are all mythology; so also is this human life. The

great mistake that men always make is to think that this life alone

is true. They understand it well enough when other things are called

mythologies, but are never willing to admit the same of their own

position.

Dear All,

Unless one realizes that the present existence is itself a

hallucination, o one cannot brand the future existences in some form in time and

space as hallucinations. The pity is that we very much believe in the solid

reality of our individual persons wanting a continuity for that, little

realizing that all our life is like the haunts of a somnambulist.

J.Krishnamurthy is correct, very near truth, when he says that that which is

abiding cannot be within the folds of time, and that what continues is only the

psychological fabrications of the persona. Unless one realizes that oneself is

only an individual manifestation in name and form of the collective stream of

existence, one cannot resolve all these questions. The error is attributable

also to our misconception in relating the transcendental Atman to our personal

ego. We want a continuity to our personal ego which means only the continuation

of our errors and illusions in time.

with regards

Sankarramna

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dennis Waite <dwaite wrote: Hi

Tony,

 

You say: " After death is somewhat similar yet

there is an agreement amongst various spirits to create a common image

or experience much the same as the agreed upon waking state. "

 

Where is your evidence for this? 'Agreement amongst various spirits'?? Is

this Advaita philosophy? Could you give a scriptural reference?

Dear Dennis,

Paul Brunton makes a statement to the above effect in his

book, " Quest of the Overself. "

Sankarraman

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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