WAKING STATE

[Guest guest]

Namaste, all

 

<<<<FROM WHOM OR FROM WHERE DOES WAKING STATE COME?

DOES IT COME FROM ME OR DOES IT COME FROM " I " ?>>>

Teachers answer this question, as follows:

The waking state, like the other two states, takes place to the one who is

asking this question.

One, the sleeper or dreamer, wakes up to the waking state on account of

pressure of karma.

However, let us do a little “vichara” on this subject.

Where does the ice come or for who? The ice does not come from anywhere, but

it is water only.

Where does the vapour come? It does not come from anywhere but it is water

only.

Where does the water come? It does not come from anywhere but it is vapor/ice

only.

So, these are three states only, and when one state appears the other two are

not there. However, they are only states, like Waking, Sleep and Dream States.

The states cannot exist independently as they require a platform or substratum

or a Vastu. The states are just appearances of the substratum when the

substratum or Vastu appears to be “conditioned”. The states do not come from

anywhere, but they are just appearances in or for the vastu itself or

substratum. As the conditioning changes, the appearances of states also change,

like waker appearing sleeper, or sleeper appearing dreamer, etc.

So, States appear for or in a Vastu/substratum when it is “conditioned” by

certain factors.

The Avasthatrayas or the three states of waking, dreaming and sleeping appear

to come or take place for Jiva depending on the “conditioning” existing at the

particular time. Since Jiva has self-ignorance, i.e. ignorance about its own

swaroopa, it gets attached or identified with the different states, because due

to self-ignorance, it takes itself to be the body, mind and intellect. And when

the BMI appears to be subjected to different conditions, three States appear to

be there, but Jiva superimposes these states on itself, as it is under

self-ignorance. When the Jiva gets enlightened with Self-knowledge as unfolded

in the Upanishads, the States do not disappear, but it knows for certain that

the States are just appearances, and it is in no way affected by any of the

states, and any conditioning taking place for body, mind and intellect.

Such conditioning takes place because of Natural Laws.

 

Due to ignorance, we do not know the real swaroopa of the Witness, who sees or

witnesses the one who is asking the questions, and the Upanishads unfolds it and

our great teachers through various prakriyas help us to assimilate the Knowledge

of the Swaroopa of the Witness to us. This Witness is “there” in all of us. This

Witness is nothing but Awareness, which is the Swaroopa of I. The waker,

dreamer, sleeper etc. including the one who is asking the questions, are all

thoughts floating on the Awareness, which is never affected by the thoughts, and

one is not able appreciate this truth or recognize it only because of ignorance.

 

I am putting all these only for getting myself corrected by our learned

members, as I have very little exposure to Advaita Vedanta.

Warm regards

 

 

 

 

R. S. Mani

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

advaitin , " R.S.MANI " <r_s_mani wrote:

>

> Namaste, all

>

> <<<<FROM WHOM OR FROM WHERE DOES WAKING STATE COME?

> DOES IT COME FROM ME OR DOES IT COME FROM " I " ?>>>

> Teachers answer this question, as follows:

> The waking state, like the other two states, takes place to the

one who is asking this question.

> One, the sleeper or dreamer, wakes up to the waking state on

account of pressure of karma.

> However, let us do a little " vichara " on this subject.

> Where does the ice come or for who? The ice does not come from

anywhere, but it is water only.

> Where does the vapour come? It does not come from anywhere but

it is water only.

> Where does the water come? It does not come from anywhere but it

is vapor/ice only.

> So, these are three states only, and when one state appears the

other two are not there. However, they are only states, like Waking,

Sleep and Dream States. The states cannot exist independently as

they require a platform or substratum or a Vastu. The states are

just appearances of the substratum when the substratum or Vastu

appears to be " conditioned " . The states do not come from anywhere,

but they are just appearances in or for the vastu itself or

substratum. As the conditioning changes, the appearances of states

also change, like waker appearing sleeper, or sleeper appearing

dreamer, etc.

> So, States appear for or in a Vastu/substratum when it

is " conditioned " by certain factors.

> The Avasthatrayas or the three states of waking, dreaming and

sleeping appear to come or take place for Jiva depending on

the " conditioning " existing at the particular time. Since Jiva has

self-ignorance, i.e. ignorance about its own swaroopa, it gets

attached or identified with the different states, because due to

self-ignorance, it takes itself to be the body, mind and intellect.

And when the BMI appears to be subjected to different conditions,

three States appear to be there, but Jiva superimposes these states

on itself, as it is under self-ignorance. When the Jiva gets

enlightened with Self-knowledge as unfolded in the Upanishads, the

States do not disappear, but it knows for certain that the States

are just appearances, and it is in no way affected by any of the

states, and any conditioning taking place for body, mind and

intellect.

> Such conditioning takes place because of Natural Laws.

>

> Due to ignorance, we do not know the real swaroopa of the

Witness, who sees or witnesses the one who is asking the questions,

and the Upanishads unfolds it and our great teachers through various

prakriyas help us to assimilate the Knowledge of the Swaroopa of the

Witness to us. This Witness is " there " in all of us. This Witness is

nothing but Awareness, which is the Swaroopa of I. The waker,

dreamer, sleeper etc. including the one who is asking the questions,

are all thoughts floating on the Awareness, which is never affected

by the thoughts, and one is not able appreciate this truth or

recognize it only because of ignorance.

>

> I am putting all these only for getting myself corrected by our

learned members, as I have very little exposure to Advaita Vedanta.

> Warm regards

>

>

>

>

> R. S. Mani

>

Dear R.S. Mani,

 

I like your answer to the question and also await what the learned

folks may say about it.

 

One minor point I would make, and would also like feedback, if it

comes, is where you say, " Since Jiva has self-ignorance, i.e.

ignorance about its own swaroopa... " . I look at it slightly

differently and think not that Jiva HAS self-ignorance, but that

Jiva IS itself self-ignorance, or the Self ignoring its own

inseparability.

 

BTW Siddharameshwar Maharaj says the waking state procedes from the

causal (deep sleep) state.

[Guest guest]

Dear Richard ji,

Namaste,

Thank you for going through my note.

You have mentioned:

>>>>One minor point I would make, and would also like feedback, if it

comes, is where you say, " Since Jiva has self-ignorance, i.e.

ignorance about its own swaroopa... " . I look at it slightly

differently and think not that Jiva HAS self-ignorance, but that

Jiva IS itself self-ignorance, or the Self ignoring its own

Inseparability<<<<<<<

The locus of ignorance is intellect, which is also the locus of any knowledge,

including self-knowledge. Any knowledge can take place in the intellect or budhi

only. It is the intellect or Budhi, which gets enlightened. The apparent

identification of Jiva, or I, which is the locus for BMI, with BMI i.e. body

mind and intellect, and particularly with the intellect or budhi clouded with

ignorance, results in Jiva or I taking itself as Ignorant. In Reality, Jiva or I

is neither ignorant nor the opposite, as the Real Nature or Swaroopa of Jiva or

I is Awareness or Consciousness, which gives the ultimate platform for all

knowledge to take place. Again the locus of ignorance is also the same intellect

or budhi. Budhi or Intellect is I itself, but not the other way round, i.e. I

is not Budhi or Intellect, because in the absence of I there is neither budhi,

nor body nor mind. Even in the absence of BMI, I continues to be there. However,

there is mutual superimposition due to

Avidya, which has no beginning. Any ignorance, has no beginning including

self-ignorance but knowledge puts an end to ignorance. What happens during deep

sleep is I is there, but body, mind and intellect are absent or latent for the

time being.

In Reality I is awareness or knowledge itself, and its apparent identification

with BMI during waking state, results in I getting, as if, bound by knowledge of

objects taking place in the intellect. It is “as if” because I is never bound

nor any liberation is required for I. There is neither bondage nor any moksha

for I, because for I to be bound the other, which may or can bind I, in reality

does not exist. So, I think there is no question of any Moksha for I.

In Deep sleep there is neither ignorance nor any particular knowledge and

therefore, Jiva or I is not affected by both.

The Absolute Reality or Paramartha i.e. the Self or I is Awareness or

Knowledge per se, is a fact to be known and appreciated and one cannot but live

in Vyvahara, empirical life, and in doing so, the recognition and appreciation

of the self-knowledge, i.e. in Reality I or Jiva is Awareness and Existence,

makes all the difference.

I request the learned members to help me in correcting what I have said above.

With warm regards,

 

 

R. S. Mani

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Thank you R.S. Mani for your reply.

 

I am always happy to learn.

 

Respectfully,

Richard

 

advaitin , " R.S.MANI " <r_s_mani wrote:

>

> Dear Richard ji,

> Namaste,

> Thank you for going through my note.

> You have mentioned:

> >>>>One minor point I would make, and would also like feedback,

if it

> comes, is where you say, " Since Jiva has self-ignorance, i.e.

> ignorance about its own swaroopa... " . I look at it slightly

> differently and think not that Jiva HAS self-ignorance, but that

> Jiva IS itself self-ignorance, or the Self ignoring its own

> Inseparability<<<<<<<

> The locus of ignorance is intellect, which is also the locus of

any knowledge, including self-knowledge. Any knowledge can take

place in the intellect or budhi only. It is the intellect or Budhi,

which gets enlightened. The apparent identification of Jiva, or I,

which is the locus for BMI, with BMI i.e. body mind and intellect,

and particularly with the intellect or budhi clouded with ignorance,

results in Jiva or I taking itself as Ignorant. In Reality, Jiva or

I is neither ignorant nor the opposite, as the Real Nature or

Swaroopa of Jiva or I is Awareness or Consciousness, which gives the

ultimate platform for all knowledge to take place. Again the locus

of ignorance is also the same intellect or budhi. Budhi or

Intellect is I itself, but not the other way round, i.e. I is not

Budhi or Intellect, because in the absence of I there is neither

budhi, nor body nor mind. Even in the absence of BMI, I continues to

be there. However, there is mutual superimposition due to

> Avidya, which has no beginning. Any ignorance, has no beginning

including self-ignorance but knowledge puts an end to ignorance.

What happens during deep sleep is I is there, but body, mind and

intellect are absent or latent for the time being.

> In Reality I is awareness or knowledge itself, and its apparent

identification with BMI during waking state, results in I getting,

as if, bound by knowledge of objects taking place in the intellect.

It is " as if " because I is never bound nor any liberation is

required for I. There is neither bondage nor any moksha for I,

because for I to be bound the other, which may or can bind I, in

reality does not exist. So, I think there is no question of any

Moksha for I.

> In Deep sleep there is neither ignorance nor any particular

knowledge and therefore, Jiva or I is not affected by both.

> The Absolute Reality or Paramartha i.e. the Self or I is

Awareness or Knowledge per se, is a fact to be known and appreciated

and one cannot but live in Vyvahara, empirical life, and in doing

so, the recognition and appreciation of the self-knowledge, i.e. in

Reality I or Jiva is Awareness and Existence, makes all the

difference.

> I request the learned members to help me in correcting what I

have said above.

> With warm regards,

>

>

> R. S. Mani

>

>

>

> Need Mail bonding?

> Go to the Mail Q & A for great tips from Answers users.

>

>