Can you worship a Guru as an shta devata and vice versa ?

[Guest guest]

Something that Tony wrote recently made me think long and hard on

this question ...

 

( teacher like Ramana end up becoming an ishtadevata and is

worshipped........ )

 

i throw the floor wide open to all members to explore the Guru

Tattwa ! Is it wrong to bow down to the lotus feet of the great

Jagadguru Adi shankara bhagvadapada as one's chosen guru and regard

him as one's ishta nishta ?

 

Na Guroradhikam tatvam, Na Guroradhikam tapah

Na Guroradhikam jnanam, Thasmai Sri Gurave namah!

 

Guru Gita (1:65)

 

No philosophy is greater than the Guru! No tapas is greater than the

Guru!

No knowledge is greater than the Guru! Unto that Guru I prostrate!

 

let me hear what learned members here have to say on this subject of

Guru Tattwa !

 

Hari Aum !

[Guest guest]

--- dhyanasaraswati <dhyanasaraswati wrote:

PraNAms

Here are some thoughts:

 

We just completed the Ch.10 B.G at Chinmaya Mission in

Springfield.

 

Krishna provides a summarizing sloka -

 

yat chaapi sarva bhuutaanam

biijam tad aham arjuna|

na tadasthi vinaa yat syaat

mayaa bhuutam cara acaram||

 

Free translation:

Oh Arjuna! Indeed know this as the essential truth.

Whatever beings exist ( or for all the existent things

and beings ), know me as the very seed for all of

them. There is nothing that is movable and immovable

in this universe, that can exist without my presence

in them.

 

If we understand this sloka- we can see that there is

nothing in this universe that is not worship worthy -

since through names and forms what we are worshiping

is the Lord himself in those forms.But to recognize

this fact a frame of mind is required. One can gain

that by practice -at least by applying or worshiping

those that our minds can recognize that they are

worship-worthy.

 

Guru brahma guru vishnu ...

is recognition of the above fact.

 

tasmi shree gurumuurthaye nama idam shree dakshinaa

muurthaye||- shows the identity of guru and the Lord.

You can take guru as the Lord and the Lord as the

guru-

 

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

[Guest guest]

H.N.Sreenivasa Murthy

Pranams to all.

advaitin , " dhyanasaraswati "

<dhyanasaraswati wrote:

 

Respected Dhyanasaraswatiji,

The last mantra from Prashnopanishad reads:

 

tE tamarcayantastvaM hi naH pitA yO^smAkamavidyayAH

paraM pAraM tArayasIti |

namaH paramaRuShiByO namaH paramaRuShibyaH || 6-8

And they, worshipping him, said: Thou, indeed, art our

father—thou who hast taken us across our ignorance to the other

shore. Adoration to the supreme rishis!

Adoration to the supreme rishis!

 

The above mantra is self-explanatory.

I presume that your question has been answered.

 

With warm and respectful regards,

Sreenivasa Murthy

[Guest guest]

hare krishna

namaskarams

 

matha pitha guru deivam.absolutely one can worship the guru as deivam. our

culture is to respect any body who teaches you as guru and what to say about

acharyas and mahapurushas like ramana and sankara.again guru of all gurus who

taught the very geetha is krishna the supreme brahman.

 

dhyanasaraswati <dhyanasaraswati wrote:

Something that Tony wrote recently made me think long and hard on

this question ...

 

( teacher like Ramana end up becoming an ishtadevata and is

worshipped........ )

 

i throw the floor wide open to all members to explore the Guru

Tattwa ! Is it wrong to bow down to the lotus feet of the great

Jagadguru Adi shankara bhagvadapada as one's chosen guru and regard

him as one's ishta nishta ?

 

Na Guroradhikam tatvam, Na Guroradhikam tapah

Na Guroradhikam jnanam, Thasmai Sri Gurave namah!

 

Guru Gita (1:65)

 

No philosophy is greater than the Guru! No tapas is greater than the

Guru!

No knowledge is greater than the Guru! Unto that Guru I prostrate!

 

let me hear what learned members here have to say on this subject of

Guru Tattwa !

 

Hari Aum !

 

 

 

 

 

 

BASKARAN.C.S

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Saraswati-ji,

 

Perhaps it would be useful to explore whether 'worship', 'devotion' and

'surrender' all have the same meaning. There are people who do not think of

themselves as 'religious', yet worship ideas and concepts. Ideas and

concepts, teachings are just as much forms and can become subject to idol

worship as anything else. Often we worship our own ideas most of all!

 

It seems to me that 'true devotion' arises naturally and spontaneously in

the heart, and is not contrived - not the result of thought or emotional

manipulation. If we are earnest in our endeavours towards truth we can't

help but feel grateful to those who provide succour to the soul, just as a

man without water in the desert feels grateful to the one who quenches his

thirst.

 

Both Sri Sankara and Sri Ramana spoke of devotion and jnana. Sri Ramana

emphasised the identity between surrender and self-inquiry (atma-vichara).

 

In the Bhagavad Gita we find, Bhagavan Krishna saying:

 

 

Four kinds of virtuous men worship Me, O Arjuna

- the distressed, the seeker of knowledge,

the seeker of wealth, and the wise man. [bG VII:16]

 

Of them the wise man, steadfast and devoted to the One,

excels; for, excessively dear am I to the wise,

and he is dear to Me. [bG VII:17]

 

Noble indeed are all these,

but the wise man, I deem, is the very Self;

for steadfast in mind,

he resorts to Me alone as the unsurpassed goal. [bG VII:18]

 

 

In the commentary to verses 17 - 18, above, Sri Sankara explains the meaning

of Krishna's words as follows:

 

" It is well known to all in this world that the Self is dear to everyone.

There Vasudeva, as the Self of the wise man, is dear to him - and the wise

man is My very Self and is therefore very dear to Me. . . . The wise man is

the very Self, not different to Me. "

 

Hence, as Sri Ramana points out, true devotion and surrender to the Guru is

devotion to Self and to 'God', for they are not two.

 

It seems that depending on our temperament each of us sees 'The Highest'

embodied in different ways and in different forms depending on our capacity

to discern that very same truth. The true value of any approach for the

individual concerned cannot be judged from external appearances or by the

type of form of devotion, as these are all affairs of the Heart.

 

Best wishes,

 

Peter

 

 

 

 

 

________________________________

 

advaitin [advaitin ] On Behalf

Of dhyanasaraswati

23 April 2007 23:53

advaitin

Can you worship a Guru as an shta devata and vice versa

?

 

 

 

Something that Tony wrote recently made me think long and hard on

this question ...

 

( teacher like Ramana end up becoming an ishtadevata and is

worshipped........ )

 

i throw the floor wide open to all members to explore the Guru

Tattwa ! Is it wrong to bow down to the lotus feet of the great

Jagadguru Adi shankara bhagvadapada as one's chosen guru and regard

him as one's ishta nishta ?

 

Na Guroradhikam tatvam, Na Guroradhikam tapah

Na Guroradhikam jnanam, Thasmai Sri Gurave namah!

 

Guru Gita (1:65)

 

No philosophy is greater than the Guru! No tapas is greater than the

Guru!

No knowledge is greater than the Guru! Unto that Guru I prostrate!

 

let me hear what learned members here have to say on this subject of

Guru Tattwa !

 

Hari Aum !

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri Peter:

 

You have raised some interesting issues along with insightful

explanations. Let me add some additional observations with respect to

worship, devotion and surrender.

 

About a decade ago, I had some interesting conversation in net

through the Soc.religion.hindu usenet group with Sri Jerzy Tarasiuk,

a polish professor of religion (catholic). Some of those posts are

still available at the Hindunet.org website. Here is a link to one of

those posts: http://www.hindunet.org/srh_home/1997_6/0082.html

These discussions were mostly only on idol worship, prayer and God.

 

Faith is the starting point for preparing the mind for 'devotion' and

worship becomes the tool to cultivate devotion. The mind is nothing

but accumulation of all thoughts and devoted worship helps to burn

those thoughts and/or redirect them inwardly. When thoughts move

inwardly they get dissolved just like the objects entering

the 'Blackhole. " Everything that enters inside the blackhole never

returns so as the thoughts diverted inside! When Bhagawan Ramana

started his 'Inner Search,' it was through worshiping the Lord of

Arunachala with great devotion. Those who have read his biography can

recall that very first step of his 'inner search journey'was to leave

home and go and conduct deep meditation at the feet of his ishta

devadata at the temple of Arunachala in Thiruvannamalai. Surrender

becomes the Prasada from the Inner Consciousness when the thoughts

gets dissolved.

 

The fundamental question is always 'how to fine tune the mind' and

the Hindu practice of devotion and worship become the tuner. In the

above frame-work, Mind purification, Anthakarana Suddhi and " Inner

Search " are accomplished through devotion and worhsip. To answer -

why it is so?, we need the FAITH and St. Augustine beautifully

provides an answer - " Faith is to believe what we don't see and its

reward is to see what we believe! "

 

With my warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

 

 

advaitin , " Peter " <not_2 wrote:

>

> Dear Saraswati-ji,

>

> Perhaps it would be useful to explore whether 'worship', 'devotion'

and

> 'surrender' all have the same meaning. There are people who do not

think of

> themselves as 'religious', yet worship ideas and concepts. Ideas

and

> concepts, teachings are just as much forms and can become subject

to idol

> worship as anything else. Often we worship our own ideas most of

all!

>

> It seems to me that 'true devotion' arises naturally and

spontaneously in

> the heart, and is not contrived - not the result of thought or

emotional

> manipulation. If we are earnest in our endeavours towards truth we

can't

> help but feel grateful to those who provide succour to the soul,

just as a

> man without water in the desert feels grateful to the one who

quenches his

> thirst.

>

[Guest guest]

Hello group,

This is the first time I am posting to this group.

Sri Ram Chandran ji has put it right when he speaks of the purification of the

mind for its ultimate annihilation.

This is what was taught by Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa. He teaches sadhana in 3

steps: firstly, saguna & saakar form of one's Ishta is worshipped. This leads to

purification of mind and its one-pointedness. Then the sadhaka automatically

moves onto the nirguna-saakar aspect of God. And finally he realizes the

nirguna-niraakar aspect of God in the true sense of advaitic realization.

 

When one starts off on the spiritual path, his mind needs something to hold on

to in meditation. And for this sake, it is very easy for him to grab the form of

his Ishta, along with Its various qualities. And Ishta is the form of divinity

which attracts the most to the sadhaka. So Ishta can take the form of Guru as

well. But along with the Ishta, the Ishta mantra also plays a big role in

purifying the mind. And since Ishta mantras exist only for the Hindu divinities,

I am not sure of what the mantra should be for one particular Guru.

 

Om Tat Sat

 

 

 

 

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