Question about Aham Brahmasmi - Please help

[Guest guest]

Namaste Maniji:

 

Though I agree with most of what you have observed, but I would like

to provide my thoughts on what you have said. I prefer the

phrase, " Total Detachment " instead of using " Total Ignorance. " The

mind stuff operates when we are partially or totally attached with

outward thoughts. During deep sleep, mind is temporarily totally

detached. The bliss is temporary and is recognized when we wake up.

The same thing is also true during meditation time - we are able to

detach the mind from all external thoughts. The Gnani with the Self

knowledge (Paravidhya) is able recognize and keep completely detached

and consequently he maintains the Bliss continuously.

 

Mathematically speaking, Brahman (Aham) = Jiva - (Body/Mind/Intellect)

 

In words, when Jiva totaly detaches his false identity of BMI, He

recognizes the True identity (Aham Brahmasmi).

 

The BMI chart with OM at the Top, Vasanas in the middle and

Body/Mind/Intellect (BMI) at the bottom illustrates the same.

(see the link for the chart: http://www.chinmayadc.org/BMI.htm)

 

With my warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

Note: The ideas that you have presented are quite convincing and I

believe that I have only changed the words slightly.

 

 

advaitin , " R.S.MANI " <r_s_mani wrote:

>

 

> That Consciousness and Awareness can only be recognized or known

only when the Mind stuff operates, i.e. Mind and Budhi. During deep

sleep, the mind stuff does not limit the " I " or Aham, and because of

that there is no particular knowledge or there is " total ignorance "

during deep sleep. Total ignorance is bliss and the bliss or Ananda,

which one says he enjoyed during the deep sleep on waking up from

deep sleep, is that Ananda or bliss because of total ignorance, and

the Ananda of " I " or Aham is equated to that Ananda. However, the

difference is during waking state a Gnani with Self Knowledge,

recognizes and appreciates that Ananda all the time or it is never

absent for him, and for others, though Ananda shines itself all the

time, being " I " or Aham which is Poornam, ignorance, about the

nature, swaroopa, of the self or " I " or Aham covers that Ananda, and

this covering of Ananda makes us all search for it throughout our

lives, as the ignorance of the swaroopa of " I " is

> only partial and not total as in deep sleep. If the ignorance

about the swaroopa or nature of the Self or " I " was total, no problem

would have been there, and nobody would search for it, as in deep

sleep.

[Guest guest]

Namaste Ramji,

 

Looking at the BMI in terms of thinking, feeling, behaving as in the chart

you gave the link to, I wondered about the place for Intuition - which

appears to be missing from this model. Do you have any thoughts (or even

intuitions!) about this?

 

BTW, I enjoyed you valuable additions (24/4/007) to my earlier response to

the thread " Can you worship a Guru as an shta devata and vice versa ? " Thank

you.

 

best wishes,

 

Peter

 

________________________________

 

advaitin [advaitin ] On Behalf

Of Ram Chandran

26 April 2007 13:31

advaitin

Re: Question about Aham Brahmasmi - Please help

 

 

 

Namaste Maniji:

 

Though I agree with most of what you have observed, but I would like

to provide my thoughts on what you have said. I prefer the

phrase, " Total Detachment " instead of using " Total Ignorance. " The

mind stuff operates when we are partially or totally attached with

outward thoughts. During deep sleep, mind is temporarily totally

detached. The bliss is temporary and is recognized when we wake up.

The same thing is also true during meditation time - we are able to

detach the mind from all external thoughts. The Gnani with the Self

knowledge (Paravidhya) is able recognize and keep completely detached

and consequently he maintains the Bliss continuously.

 

Mathematically speaking, Brahman (Aham) = Jiva - (Body/Mind/Intellect)

 

In words, when Jiva totaly detaches his false identity of BMI, He

recognizes the True identity (Aham Brahmasmi).

 

The BMI chart with OM at the Top, Vasanas in the middle and

Body/Mind/Intellect (BMI) at the bottom illustrates the same.

(see the link for the chart: http://www.chinmayadc.org/BMI.htm

<http://www.chinmayadc.org/BMI.htm> )

 

With my warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

[Guest guest]

Namaste Peterji:

 

My intuition signals me that no model can explain Intuition

intuitively! The only way to get the 'intuition' is to divert our

attention away from all charts, theories and models!! The BMI chart

simply tells us that we need to divert our attention from BMI to the

Atman (Brahman).

 

Models and theories in general can only take us only upto the point

where we recognize why they alos need to be discarded along with the

thoughts! Swami Chinmayananda used to give the Pole-vault example - In

order to jump over the pole, we need another pole and to complete the

crossing over the pole, we also should discard that pole. Here are some

more thougts on the same subject matter:

 

Brahman is REAL and Brahman is also the QUESTION. All answers to any

question is nothing but thoughts. Thoughts are transient and are

UNREAL. An explanation to any thought is another thought and is also

unreal! The goal of Vedic scriptures including the Upanishads and the

Gita is to guide us to discard the thought process. Karma, Bhakti and

Jnana yogas stipulated in Gita are the greatest tools to proceed our

life without indulging the mind in action. The yogas of Gita (Karma,

Jnana and Bhakti) will serve as anti-lock brakes to the accelerating

mind. The energy for the accelerating mind comes from sensual

perceptions. The yoga Sadhana is one of the many ways to close this

energy source. Any thought coming from the accelerating mind without

direction is the greatest obstacle. The question - what is Real?, will

remain as a question as long as the mind engaged in entertaining

thoughts and energized by the sensual perceptions!

 

Whenever we try to explain REAL, we only elaborate how UNREAL we are!

All our explanations through models and theories are also just

thoughts. We do not want to admit our inability to establish the

communication channel between the REAL and UNREAL! We do not want to

believe that no communication channel between REAL and UNREAL can ever

be possible! When we recognize the REAL (True Identity), we need no

more explanations and we have nothing more to explain! We become

liberated and instantaneously able to close all communication channels.

This is the State of Ananda. The mahavakyas (great sayings) imply

this state by the declarations: Aham Brahmasmi (I am the Brahman) Also

the other declaration Tat Tvam Asi (THAT IT IS) implies the same!

 

With my warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

Note: Thanks for your kind remarks.

 

 

advaitin , " Peter " <not_2 wrote:

>

> Namaste Ramji,

>

> Looking at the BMI in terms of thinking, feeling, behaving as in the

chart

> you gave the link to, I wondered about the place for Intuition - which

> appears to be missing from this model. Do you have any thoughts (or

even

> intuitions!) about this?

[Guest guest]

Namaste, Sri Ramchandranji,

Thank you for your kind response to my post.

You have mentioned:

>>>I prefer the phrase, " Total Detachment " instead of using " Total

Ignorance.<<<<

IMHO, is it not better, instead of detachment, one falsifies the BMI, because

attachment itself was just appearance and more than that it was for a false

entity. I feel, if one tries to detach something, it would amount to his giving

reality to the attachment. Just my thoughts only.

The BMI chart brought back to my memory the wonderful days when we used to

have Satsangh with Pujya Chinmayanandaji decades back in Calcutta.

Warm regards

Mani

 

 

R. S. Mani

 

 

 

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