On avidya

[Guest guest]

PraNAms to all.

Here is my understanding.

 

Avidya or ignorance is considered as the root cause

for samsaara.

 

According to advaita, it is the ignorance of one's

true nature is the cause for samsaara.

 

According to vishishhTaadvaita it is avidya of ones

dependence on the Lord is the root cause of samsaara.

 

In both cases solution to the problem is the knowledge

- for advaitin - it is the knowledge of ones true

nature or self-knowledge is the means for liberation.

For a vishishhTadvaitin it is the knowledge of ones

dependence on the Lord (sheshha sheshhii bhaava) and

therefore that knowledge based complete surrenderance

to the Lord (Vishnu)is the means for liberation.

 

Who has avidya? For advaitin, the avidya is located

with the person who feels he is limited or has the

notion that he is limited - that is jiiva. For

vishishhTadvaitin it is with the person who has not

realized how desperate he is without the grace of Lord

Vishnu.

 

Avidya or ignorance can only be anaadi - it can never

start. If I say I am ignorant of chemistry, it is

meaningless to ask when did my ignorance of chemistry

started. It is anaadi. But with knowledge of

Chemistry my ignorance of chemistry ends. Where is the

locus of the chemistry ignorance? Whoever is ignorant

of chemistry is the locus for its ignorance.

 

The fact is it is not that knowledge comes and then

ignorance leaves. The very arrival of knowledge is

the elimination of ignorance- like darkness is removed

when the light is turned on. Therefore any efforts to

remove ignorance are useless. On the other hand

efforts to gain the knowledge will help in the

elimination of ignorance.

 

Question that was posed by Bhagavan Ramanuja in terms

of locus of avidya in advaita is because of anyonya

aashraya aspect. He questions; since according to

advaita there is nothing other than Brahman, notion of

jiiva arises because of ignorance of one's own

identity - that is jiiva notion arises because of

ignorance. Hence avidya should be there before jiiva

notion arises. On the other hand if we say jiiva has

avidya, then jiiva has to be there before avidya can

locate itself in jiiva. He questions therefore how

can jiiva who is the product of avidya become locus of

avidya. Therefore only possibility is Brahman should

be the locus of avidya. If Brahman has avidya, then

he ceases to be Brahman. Any way one gets into logical

absurdity.

 

Adviatin's answer is simple. Brahman is one without a

second. Hence there is no question of either jiiva or

avidya to talk about. Once we accept that there is

jiiva and avidya - the question of what is first and

what is second is also meaningless since both are

anaadi- beginningless. In fact their interdependence

is not logically absurd it is what we call as

anirvachaniiyam; which of course Ramanuja criticizes

too in his Shree Bhaashya. It is like seed first or

tree first since they are mutually dependent on each.

The answer can only it is anirvacaniiyam.

 

From Brahman's point there is nothing other than

Brahman. From Iswara's point, we call the same thing

as maaya and he is maayaavi - weilder of maaya. All

this means is, it provides an explanation for the

aavaraNa and vishepa shaktis - one is non-apprehension

of oneself and the other is misapprehension of oneslef

as I am this or that, etc.

But all these explantions also dissolve when one

realize that one is Brahman. Hence from adviata

perspective everything we talk about from Iswara down

is only within the realm of vyavahaara.

 

In advaitaL list Shree Anand Hudli answers avidya as

sat - asat - vilaxaNam, which is the same for maaya

too.

 

Durgaji is right- only way to get rid of avidya is

gaining knowledge of ones own self. Once one gained

that knowledge, one can declare - " the ignorance I

never had, I lost " - that is having ignorance and

loosing it too both are mithyaa - Bondage as well as

liberation both are mithyaa only. But for those who

feel they are bound, mithya is taken as real.

Therefore sadhana should be as real, until one

realizes true nature of oneself.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

[Guest guest]

advaitin , kuntimaddi sadananda

<kuntimaddisada wrote:

>

PraNAms to beloved Sadaji and all others participating in this thread

 

Just before this thread started, I came to the same doubt about the

onset of avidya and also the cause of avidya. I was glad that Sri

Vinayaka Ji started this thread.

 

Asking for onset of avidya is as futile as asking for what happened

before big bang.

 

But what eludes me is the cause of avidya. Is it simply " Gods Will " ?

 

The posts in this thread are explaining to beginners like me the

existence and nature of avidya.

 

As per vedanta we have cycles with pralaya in between. pralaya or

folding of manifestation has no avidya(am I right?). But when the

cycle of manifestation starts which is avidya itself. So the obvious

question is why are there these cycles?

 

Thank you very much

 

Sudesh

[Guest guest]

--- Sudesh Pillutla <sudeshpillutla wrote:

 

> But what eludes me is the cause of avidya. Is it

> simply " Gods Will " ?

 

Sree Sudesh - PraNAms.

 

That which has no beginning cannot have a cause.

Cause-effect relationships exist in the realm of time.

anaadi implies before even the time came into

existence since the very time concept is in the realm

of avidya only.

 

 

 

 

> The posts in this thread are explaining to beginners

> like me the

> existence and nature of avidya.

>

> As per vedanta we have cycles with pralaya in

> between. pralaya or

> folding of manifestation has no avidya(am I right?).

 

According to Vedanta - the janma- sthiti and laya are

cycles without any beginning or end.

 

laya is when consciousness identified as jiiva goes to

sleep - that is everyday when I or you go to deep

sleep state - the whole world is folded as the mind of

the individual is folded.

 

Pralaya is when the totality or Brahma (creator) goes

to sleep, after his days work - his time consists of

many many yuga cycles.

 

The whole creation goes into subtle form when he

sleeps. That is pralaya - just as we have waking

dream and deep sleep state so is Brahma. After his 100

years or so over as per his time his post is filled by

another person who will then takc charge of the

creation. This is what is picturized on our

scriptures. 8th Ch. Gita talks about Brahma's sleep

and pralaya aspect.

 

But all this is still with in vyavahaara or within the

realm of avidya only.

 

From Brahman point there is no avidya neither pralaya

neither creation - all that is there is the homogenous

consciousness that is one without a second.

 

> But when the

> cycle of manifestation starts which is avidya

> itself. So the obvious

> question is why are there these cycles?

>

 

The cycle of manifestation it self is within the realm

of avidya. Since it is a continuous cycle it cannot

start or end.

 

Liberation is to recognize that this cycle of birth

and death all is only a notion and in reality there is

neither creation nor creator. What is there is only

Brahman, one without a second.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

> Thank you very much

>

> Sudesh

>

>

>