Request for meaning of #dushkRtAM#

[Guest guest]

Gita famous verse 4.8 says

#paritrANAya sAdhUnAM

vinASAyaca dushkRtAM

dharma saMsthApa nArthAya

saMbhavAmi yugE yugE#

 

Many translate the word #dushkRtAM# as evil-doers or sinners.

I am not sure if it is plural of #dushkRti# meaning evil-deed

OR is it plural of #dushkRta# which means evil-doer ? Big

difference between condemning sin and sinner, evil and evil-doer.

 

I hasten to share how Swami Prabhavananda paraphrases it

beautifully as:

" In every age I come back

To deliver the holy,

To destroy the sin of the sinner

To establish the righteousness "

 

Swami Chinmayananda also explains clearly with even upper-case

emphasis in his commentary as:

--------------------------

" Here 'DESTRUCTION' is not annihilation of the individuals as

much as the REMOVAL OF THE WRONG TENDENCIES in the individuals "

 

Even so, it bothers me if the word #dushkRtAM# stands as plural

of #dushkRta# OR #dushkRti#. I appreciate any insights from

Sanskrit cognoscenti.

 

Hari OM!

-Srinivas

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " Srinivas Nagulapalli "

<srini_nagul wrote:

>

> Gita famous verse 4.8 says

> #paritrANAya sAdhUnAM

> To deliver the holy,

> To destroy the sin of the sinner

> To establish the righteousness "

> --------------------------

> " Here 'DESTRUCTION' is not annihilation of the individuals as

> much as the REMOVAL OF THE WRONG TENDENCIES in the individuals "

>

> Even so, it bothers me if the word #dushkRtAM# stands as plural

> of #dushkRta# OR #dushkRti#. I appreciate any insights from

> Sanskrit cognoscenti.

 

Dear sir!

 

It was fortunate of me to get such a clear explaination by you and

giving it a compassionate outlook of reformation of the sin in sinner

and not the anihilation or destruction of the person whose personality

is always has a chance to change or reform. And God rightly graces the

one and gives him/her a chance to reform himself.

 

I thank you very much for your great insight.

 

Also, I think.....word #dushkRtAM# stands as past tense verb or souunds

like that, So since what ever happened in the past, the dush-kru-tham

(what ever bad has been done intentionally), that past once left behind,

there is always the chance for the seeker who surrenders totally and has

the serious intentions to not to repeat it, definitely God delivers and

protects.

 

>

> Hari OM!

> -Srinivas

 

 

Om Namah ShivAyah!

 

ananda

[Guest guest]

Namaste.

 

Here is the English Translation of Sri Sankaracharya's Sanskrit

Commentary - Swami Gambhirananda - from Gita Supersite.

 

 

" 4.8 Paritranaya, for the protection; sadhunam, of the pious, the

followers of the virtuous path; vinasaya, for the destruction;

duskrtam, of the evil-doers, of the sinful ones; and also

dharmasamsthapanarthaya, for establishing virtue fully;-for that

purpose, sambhavami, I manifest Myself; yuge yuge, in every age. "

 

Monier Williams Dictionary lists the word duSkRit to mean a criminal

or an evil-doer.

 

Since sAdhUnAM is used in the first part, it is safe to expect the

second part to conform to it.

 

This is not to say Sw. Paramarthanandaji and Sw. Chinmayanandaji are

wrong. Their explanations are a necessary expansion of the literal

meaning.

 

PraNAms.

 

Madathil Nair

[Guest guest]

> Here is the English Translation of Sri Sankaracharya's Sanskrit

> Commentary - Swami Gambhirananda - from Gita Supersite.

>

>

> " 4.8 Paritranaya, for the protection; sadhunam, of the pious, the

> followers of the virtuous path; vinasaya, for the destruction;

> duskrtam, of the evil-doers, of the sinful ones;

 

 

 

Here if it is evil-doers, then it should be 'duskrtan' and more over

 

it is not and also

' dharmasamsthapanarthayaCHA' it does not signify as a personal

annihilation of evil doers and there is no way, any God coming in the

Human Form to do this, to believe your understanding. Nobody is coming

to Save (I manifest Myself; yuge yuge, in every age?), that's a myth.

One has to save oneself from one's own ignorance or Maya and that's why

Bhagawan says Anthe ma Sagathih, that is even at the time of death, if

you remember me and surrender to me, I will liberate you, hence showing

a tremoundous compassion and the power of grace of the Lord on who want

to take the path of sadhu or a yogi or devotee.....and reforms himself,

his past deeds etc. The divinity manifests inside the heart to give the

chance to all those ignorants. There is no separate class as evildoers

and sinful ones etc. The very attachement to this Mundane world is

enough and to recognise this and trying to come out of this illusion is

enough to get lord's protection and keeping him/her in the virtuos path

and destroy any negativities/obstacles on the path.

 

 

 

> and also

> dharmasamsthapanarthaya, for establishing virtue fully;-for that

> purpose, sambhavami, I manifest Myself; yuge yuge, in every age. "

>

> Monier Williams Dictionary lists the word duSkRit to mean a criminal

> or an evil-doer.

>

> Since sAdhUnAM is used in the first part, it is safe to expect the

> second part to conform to it.

 

 

 

No, duSkRit means evil doer and duskrutham means evil done.

 

it may mean also whatever sAdhUnAM that is the people on the path, I

will protect them from the effects of their past evil doings and at all

the times (sambhavami yuge yuge) I will manifest to take care of their

sadhana......

 

If it is applied/interpreted esoterically to the individual soul and not

vis-a-vis this group verses that group ala (like) evil doers verses

sadhus etc....

 

Esoteric interepretations mostly ignore the external factors and are

applied in the learning of the internal process of Self-Knowing. The

outer world no more becomes much of a problem, Inner World is more

operational and mostly gita addresses that aspect only......

 

And more over the real meaning comes from one's own inner experience and

intution, and a direct communication/confirmation with the higher-self,

'words' become meaningless in that situation.

 

Namaste!

 

Ananda

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " ananda " <aghorabhairav wrote:

>

>

>

> > Here is the English Translation of Sri Sankaracharya's Sanskrit

> > Commentary - Swami Gambhirananda - from Gita Supersite.

> >

> >

> > " 4.8 Paritranaya, for the protection; sadhunam, of the pious, the

> > followers of the virtuous path; vinasaya, for the destruction;

> > duskrtam, of the evil-doers, of the sinful ones;

>

>

>

> Here if it is evil-doers, then it should be 'duskrtan' and more

over

>

 

Let us not tinker with the grammar of Vyasa and Shankara!

 

Consultation with a Grammarian provided these clues:

 

[sAdhUnAm is the masculine plural genitve case of the stem word

sAdhu]

 

duShkRRitAm is the masculine plural genitive case of the stem word

dus + kRRi + (termination) kvip

(references - Panini 3:2:89)

 

Shankara has used the synonym 'pApakAriNAm' which also is the

masculine plural genitive of pApakArin (as per Panini 3:2:78).

 

One may choose to go by different interpretations, other than the

literal.

 

 

Moderators

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " advaitins " <advaitins wrote:

>

> advaitin , " ananda " <aghorabhairav@> wrote:

> >

> > Here if it is evil-doers, then it should be 'duskrtan' and more

...

> Let us not tinker with the grammar of Vyasa and Shankara!

>

> Consultation with a Grammarian provided these clues:

>

> [sAdhUnAm is the masculine plural genitve case of the stem word

> sAdhu]

>

> duShkRRitAm is the masculine plural genitive case of the stem word

> dus + kRRi + (termination) kvip (references - Panini 3:2:89)

>

> Shankara has used the synonym 'pApakAriNAm' which also is the

> masculine plural genitive of pApakArin (as per Panini 3:2:78).

>

> One may choose to go by different interpretations, other than the

> literal.

 

Thanks for the info. I am surprised that dushkRtitAM literally

means according to the grammar the so called 'sinners' and

not 'sins'! We are fortunate for the commentaries by illumined

souls like Swami Chinmayananda and Swami Prabhavananda among

others to guide us.

 

Needless to say, these interpreted commentaries and the meanings

given are more in line with the repeated exhortations in

Gita in other places like #mayA maya midaM sarvaM# or

#sarva bhUtastha mAtmAnaM tishTaMti# and also 'showing' the

'saying' in the 'big picture' #viSvaroopaM#, encompassing

everything- be it literally, figuratively, mystically or just

really.

 

We need not think this as tinkering with grammar of Vyasa,

Shankara or Sri Krishna. After all obeying grammar like

observing traffic rules, only serves to make communication safe

and easy for every one!

 

This also highlights to me, the significance of realized souls

in understanding properly the scriptures. We can learn from

scriptures like we can from any thing else in nature, but we

cannot ask them! However, we can not only learn from a teacher

but can also ask him/her.

 

To me, this also seems to illustrate precisely the difference

between scholarship and realization. No map of earth is as good

as earth itself. Even so, we use the ever-incomplete maps to

navigate around. However, one who has traveled the route before,

can point out the way clearly even if it is not so marked or even

missing in the edition of the map we might be holding. So too,

realized souls seem to help us follow the very scriptures that are

supposed to help us anyway.

 

Hari Om!

-Srinivas

[Guest guest]

Hari Om. Salutations.

 

There is another such word that intrigues me. It is " Janardan " . I

dont' know much Sanskrit. Can you please explain that word also.

Thank You.

 

Love and Respect

Padma

advaitin , " advaitins " <advaitins wrote:

> [sAdhUnAm is the masculine plural genitve case of the stem word

> sAdhu]

>

> duShkRRitAm is the masculine plural genitive case of the stem word

> dus + kRRi + (termination) kvip

> (references - Panini 3:2:89)

>

> Shankara has used the synonym 'pApakAriNAm' which also is the

> masculine plural genitive of pApakArin (as per Panini 3:2:78).

>

> One may choose to go by different interpretations, other than the

> literal.

>

>

> Moderators

>

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " pjoshi99 " <pjoshi99 wrote:

>

>

> There is another such word that intrigues me. It is " Janardan " . I

> dont' know much Sanskrit. Can you please explain that word also.

> Thank You.

>

 

http://www.astrojyoti.com/vs2.htm [plays the audio chanting also]

 

Janardanah: One who inflicts suffering on evil men.

 

 

An alternative meaning (as given in Sw. Chinmayananda's commentary)-

 

http://www.ecse.rpi.edu/Homepages/shivkuma/music/vishnu-sahasranamam-

meanings.htm

 

(126) Janaardanah -The term ardayati is a verb meaning both `giving

sorrow' or `giving joy'. Thus, One who gives sorrow and disaster to

the vicious, and who blesses with joy and peace to the good people is

called Janaardanah.

[Guest guest]

Hari Om. Salutations.

 

Thank you so much. This is very beautiful ! :-)

 

Love and Respect

Padma

advaitin , " advaitins " <advaitins wrote:

> http://www.astrojyoti.com/vs2.htm [plays the audio chanting also]

>

> Janardanah: One who inflicts suffering on evil men.

>

>

> An alternative meaning (as given in Sw. Chinmayananda's commentary)-

>

> http://www.ecse.rpi.edu/Homepages/shivkuma/music/vishnu-sahasranamam-

> meanings.htm

>

> (126) Janaardanah -The term ardayati is a verb meaning both `giving

> sorrow' or `giving joy'. Thus, One who gives sorrow and disaster to

> the vicious, and who blesses with joy and peace to the good people is

> called Janaardanah.

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste:

 

Janaardan is one of many popular Sanskrit names adopted for newborn

babies. Janaardan represents Vishnu - the protector and sustainer of

all living beings. Janaardan necessarily implies Vishnu comes from

Anumana Pramana (knowledge through inference). Lord Krishna (an avatar

of Vishnu) proclaims in chapter 4 of Gita that he is indeed the

Janaardan throguh the following verses:

 

Yadaa yadaa hi dharmasya glaanir bhavati bhaarata;

Abhyutthaanam adharmasya tadaatmaanam srijaamyaham. Verse 7

 

7. Whenever there is a decline of righteousness, O Arjuna, and rise of

unrighteousness, then I manifest Myself! (Dharma elevates and helps

one to reach the goal of life and attain knowledge. Adharma drags one

into become evil and cruel.)

 

Paritraanaaya saadhoonaam vinaashaaya cha dushkritaam;

Dharma samsthaapanaarthaaya sambhavaami yuge yuge.

 

I am born in every age to protect the good and to destroy the wicked,

and for the establishment of righteousness.

 

The suggested meaning appropriately signifies that Janaardan is Vishnu!

 

With my warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

 

advaitin , " advaitins " <advaitins wrote:

>

> (126) Janaardanah -The term ardayati is a verb meaning both `giving

> sorrow' or `giving joy'. Thus, One who gives sorrow and disaster to

> the vicious, and who blesses with joy and peace to the good people is

> called Janaardanah.

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Sri Ramji for those two TIMELY verses from Srimad Bhagvad

Gita . Krishna is addtessed by 41 different names ( may be more )(

in the Srimad Bhagvad Gita - Some of these names are Acyuta,

Bhagavan, Govinda, Hari, Isvara, Kesava, Madhava, Purusottama and

Yogesvara as well as Vasudeva and Vishnu.

 

In the following verse SRI KRISHNA PARAMATMA is addressed as

*Janardhana* by Arjuna

 

 

vistarenatmano yogam

vibhutim ca *janardana*

bhuyah kathaya trptir hi

shrinvato nasti me 'mrtam (chapter 10, verse 16?)

 

*O Janardana,* again please describe in detail the mystic power of

Your opulences. I am never satiated in hearing about You, for the

more I hear the more I want to taste the nectar of Your words.

 

Swami Chinamayananda's translation

 

" Tell me again, in detail, *O Janardana,* of your YOGA -power and

Immanent glory; for I do not feel satisfied by hearing your (life-

giving and so) nectar-like speech. "

 

One of the meanings of Janardana is aiso 'one who bestows boons on

all' - what is the best boon one can get from Gitacharya ?

the 'destruction ' of Ignorance and the bestowing of 'knowledge' -

 

in this sense , our beloved Janardana is truly a 'destroyer of

ignorance ' and the creator of 'jnana' !

 

my 2 cents

 

Krishnam Vande jagadgurum

 

advaitin , " Ram Chandran " <ramvchandran

wrote:

>

> Namaste:

>

> Janaardan is one of many popular Sanskrit names adopted for

newborn

> babies. Janaardan represents Vishnu - the protector and sustainer

of

> all living beings. Janaardan necessarily implies Vishnu comes from

> Anumana Pramana (knowledge through inference). disaster to

> > the vicious, and who blesses with joy and peace to the good

people is

> > called Janaardanah.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Srinivas-ji,

 

You said: " To me, this also seems to illustrate precisely the difference

between scholarship and realization. No map of earth is as good

as earth itself. Even so, we use the ever-incomplete maps to

navigate around. However, one who has traveled the route before,

can point out the way clearly even if it is not so marked or even

missing in the edition of the map we might be holding. So too,

realized souls seem to help us follow the very scriptures that are

supposed to help us anyway. "

 

Your message seemed to imply that it is by virtue of being realized that

some teachers are able to help us to follow the scriptures. Obviously this

helps (!) but it is principally by being part of a sampradAya, and having

been taught the traditional methods of unfolding the scriptures that one

teacher is successful and another not. Many teachers in the West, for

example, though perhaps enlightened, are not necessarily very good teachers

because they lack this tradition. Indeed, one who is 'only' a shrotrIya is

preferable to one who is 'only' enlightened as far as teaching is concerned.

 

Best wishes,

Dennis

 

 

 

 

advaitin [advaitin ] On Behalf

Of Srinivas Nagulapalli

23 May 2007 15:02

advaitin

Re: Request for meaning of #dushkRtAM#

 

 

..

 

<http://geo./serv?s=97359714/grpId=15939/grpspId=1705075991/msgId=3

6076/stime=1179929036/nc1=4507179/nc2=3848550/nc3=3848638>

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

>....follow the very scriptures that are

> supposed to help us anyway. " .....

>

 

Respected Sirs!

 

I am just having some doubts, please excuse me If I may be

wrong……...

 

 

> Your message seemed to imply that it is by virtue of being realized

that

> some teachers are able to help us to follow the scriptures.

 

Obviously it also implies being not realized it may not help in being a

good teacher

 

even though one is following a sampradAya?

 

 

>Obviously this

> helps (!) but it is principally by being part of a sampradAya,

 

 

What is `sampradAya?' Is it something to do Varna-ashrama? Can

it be said, being part of a sampradAya but not realized?

 

 

 

 

>and having

> been taught the traditional methods of unfolding the scriptures that

one

> teacher is successful and another not.

 

 

You mean to say to be successful one has to follow the so called

traditional methods? Can you please define them? Or can we say safely,

the teachers are different and realized beings are different? All

teachers cannot be realized and all realized cannot or need not be

teachers?

 

 

 

 

 

 

> Many teachers in the West, for

> example, though perhaps enlightened, are not necessarily very good

teachers

> because they lack this tradition.

 

 

In what way this point is related? Even in the east it applies? Why

there is any need of `directional superiority'?

 

>Indeed, one who is 'only' a shrotrIya is

> preferable to one who is 'only' enlightened as far as teaching is

concerned.

 

Ofcourse there is truth in both ways, I am not saying right or wrong

here, I am just giving my vote for Realized Teacher, that's it.

 

 

 

I don't know why you put `only'? how can anything be only

preferable when the other is also deserving ? We may get both a realized

and as well brahma shrotrIya teacher, why not welcome them?

 

 

 

I think according to `gurugita' it is indeed both are needed as

far a seeker is concerned….

 

 

 

Kabir says " Pandith Vaad Vadante jhhoota..................... "

 

 

 

 

 

namaste!

 

 

 

Best wishes

 

 

 

Ananda

 

 

 

 

>

> Best wishes,

> Dennis

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " Dennis Waite " <dwaite wrote:

>

> Your message seemed to imply that it is by virtue of being

> realized that some teachers are able to help us to follow the

> scriptures. Obviously this helps (!) but it is principally by

> being part of a sampradAya, and having been taught the traditional

> methods of unfolding the scriptures that one teacher is successful

> and another not. Many teachers in the West, for example, though

> perhaps enlightened, are not necessarily very good teachers

> because they lack this tradition. Indeed, one who is 'only' a

> shrotrIya is preferable to one who is 'only' enlightened as far as

> teaching is concerned.

 

Hari Om Dennis ji,

I am not sure how we can determine whether a teacher is successful

or not. For outer sciences, we can easily determine how many students

got graduated, how many grew up in turn to be able to contribute

to their field etc- and even possibly rank them.

 

But, it gets very hard to do the same for teachers of subjective

science- particularly Vedanta. It seems to me, to the degree I find

one to be insightful, inspiring and strength-giving to walk the

talk, to that extent that one is a successful teacher, no matter

what others say. Similar to parents who helped us to walk when

young, true teachers also seem to help us walk the path and

importantly, want us to walk without becoming dependant on them!

 

I do not know much about sAMpradAya, other than what I learnt from

teachers. What such a teacher follows itself seems to be a

sAmpradAya to me. Swami Chinmayanandaji who IS (yes, present tense!)

the first one that inspired and taught me, was criticised by many as

violating *some* sAMpradAya, when he started Geeta Gnana Yagnas in

English!

 

I read even Ramana Maharshi was criticised for violating *some*

sAMpradAya! And I am not even sure if according to the so called

sAMpradAya, whether it is proper to teach Vedanta while holding

reins of horses on a chariot in a noisy, dusty battlefield like

Sri Krishna did! Of course, this email-discussion to conduct

Satsanga and propagate Advaita might itself violate *some*

sAMpradAya. Isn't it?!

 

So while Lord and even esteemed teachers were criticized of

violating *some* sAMpradAyA or other, ironically, only through them

we seem to to learn the essence and significance of sAMpradAya,

in addition to their teachings.

 

Same Geeta and how many different interpretations and commentaries.

Same Bible and how many different types of churches in Christianity.

Same Shankara and how many different ways we understand his works.

Yet, Lord's grace in no less resourceful to continue to guide every

one of us!

 

#mookaM karOti vaacaalaM, paMguM laMghayatE giriM

yatkRpA tamahaM vaMdE paramAnaMda maadhavaM#

 

Lord, by whose grace mute becomes eloquent, handicapped can

cross mountains and the giver of supreme bliss, may He continue to

guide us all.

 

Hari Om!

-Srinivas

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " Ram Chandran " <ramvchandran

wrote:

Respected Ramachandra-ji and Dhyanasaraswati-ji,

Hari Om. Salutations.

 

Thanks a lot for your clarification.

 

Love and Respect

Padma

[Guest guest]

Namaste Sri Nagugaru::

 

sAMpradAya represents a traditional school of religious teaching,

transmitted from a teacher to his/her disciple. Every sAMpradAya

depends on the teacher who founded it and the sustainability of any

sAMpradAya depends on its followers! The word sAMpradAya could be

replaced by the universal word `Dhrama' with an appropriate

understanding. Just like dharma, sAMpradAya is also not static and

it does change according to time. The sAMpradAya during Vedic time

period has undergone invisible changes and that is the reason that

everyone observes it differently. Just like Dharma, sAMpradAyas are

also overlapping and consequently the correct choice becomes

difficult and more complicated. Though we may not notice (or not

accept it) sAMpradAya has been changing according to the changes in

the environment. The saying, that – " we don't mind bending the

sAMpradAya but we certainly don't want to break it " may explain the

issues related to sAMpradAya. I believe that Swami Chinmayananda and

Sri Ramana Maharishi have bended the sAMpradAya so that everyone can

benefit from the knowledge that were buried underneath our rich Vedic

sAMpradAya.. One of our sAMpradAya is to raise objections and ask for

explanations whenever someone tries to bend or break an established

sAMpradAya. The email discussion is in fact a newly established

sAMpradAya with guidelines and rules so that the new sAMpradAya

doesn't break other sAMpradAyas. Please note that there can be more

than one sAMpradAya can exist at any one point of time. Since we all

come with different backgrounds, we prefer one sAMpradAya over

another sAMpradAya. Our Hindu sAMpradAya does recognize that " one

shoe doesn't fit all " and that may explain why we have many

sAMpradAyas, many gods, many teachers and cultural traditions!

 

My explanations using too many times the word - sAMpradAya may be

confusing but unfortunately without any words we may fail to

understand the unwritten sAMpradAya!!

 

With my warmest regards,

 

Ram Chandran

 

 

advaitin , " Srinivas Nagulapalli "

<srini_nagul wrote:

>

> I read even Ramana Maharshi was criticised for violating *some*

> sAMpradAya! And I am not even sure if according to the so called

> sAMpradAya, whether it is proper to teach Vedanta while holding

> reins of horses on a chariot in a noisy, dusty battlefield like

> Sri Krishna did! Of course, this email-discussion to conduct

> Satsanga and propagate Advaita might itself violate *some*

> sAMpradAya. Isn't it?!

[Guest guest]

Verse 126 of the Ashtavakra Gita says that a person of keen intellect

becomes enlightened even when the instruction is imparted

casually...difficult to apply standards in the midst of change. Still,

what is it that perceives the change? Mustn't that witness be beyond

change in order to witness change? No matter how much changes in a

sampradaya, the witness of it doesn't change. So does change matter?

Best wishes (hope I'm posting this correctly!)

[Guest guest]

advaitin , Sri Ram Chandran ji wrote:

>

>

> sAMpradAya represents a traditional school of religious

> teaching, transmitted from a teacher to his/her disciple. Every

> sAMpradAya depends on the teacher who founded it and the

> sustainability of any sAMpradAya depends on its followers! The

> word sAMpradAya could be replaced by the universal word `Dhrama'

> with an appropriate understanding. Just like dharma, sAMpradAya

> is also not static and it does change according to time.

 

Thank you so much for explaining. It is of timely help because I

reached the end of what I know about it pretty quickly.

 

I am like some one who enjoys eating delicacies, blissfully unaware

of how they are made, let alone who all are behind its making!

If it tastes good, feels good, and after-effects are only good,

nourishing and strength-giving, I will go for it, and not worry

much about any thing else. So too, I just enjoy the teachings of

masters, even this email-satsanga etc., and try to get benefit

from them- leaving it to others to determine if these are new or

modified sAMpradAyas. I just know it is good stuff!

 

I recall with fondness and gratitude the many beautiful

Satsangas I used to attend by you and Sada-ji and I still

miss them. Sorry, if I did not grow up enough to stop feeling such

attachments.

 

Pranams and Hari Om

-Srinivas

 

PS: Please no 'garu' for me- I am younger and always younger to you.