RES: Having no teacher

[Guest guest]

Hello and welcome otnac6..

 

Thank you for your thoughts on this matter.. I believe that with or without

a teacher, we must go on trying.

 

Thank you again and blessed be

 

Cecilia

 

 

-----Mensagem original-----

De: advaitin [advaitin ]Em nome de

otnac6

Enviada em: terça-feira, 22 de maio de 2007 18:24

Para: advaitin

Assunto: Having no teacher

 

 

Hello, I'm new here. I've read some of the posts, found Cecelia's

about having no teacher. Sounds as if you've read/studied Ramana

Maharshi. I've been reading/studying/practicing based on " The

Teachings of Ramana Maharshi " , Nisargatta and a few others for maybe

20 years or so. " Who am I? Who gets these thoughts and images? When

I'm washing dishes, who is it that is washing them? Am I the same as

washing dishes? What is it that is typing right now? If " I " am typing

right now is it the same " I " that that was sleeping earlier? "

The perceiver cannot be perceived. Whatever I see/think/feel/do/

cannot be me otherwise I'd be the same as that and couldn't perceive

it.

I have no teacher, no hope of finding one, or one finding me. That's

okay. I'll keep practicing, whether ego gets into it or not. I don't

care what others say about " needing " a teacher--I'll still practice.

See my point? If I'm willing to do everything that I can " on my own " ,

so to speak, then that's all " I " can do. Mistakes, blind allys,

misunderstandings--I don't care! I'll still practice Vichara until

the day " I " die. I can't wait around for a teacher, I want and have

wanted for many years to be on this pathless path and I'm on it, with

or without a guide. If a teacher/guide comes along I'll welcome

him/her. If not--then not!

 

I appreciate being in this group! Best wishes!

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

When the teacher is ready, the student appears...or do I have that

backwards?

[Guest guest]

Sir your have it backwords - what you are saying is

like when the bee is ready, the flower will open. It

is the other way; when the flower is ready the bee

shall come.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

--- otnac6 <otnac6 wrote:

 

> When the teacher is ready, the student appears...or

> do I have that

> backwards?

>

>

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " otnac6 " <otnac6 wrote:

>

> When the teacher is ready, the student appears...or do I have that

> backwards?

>

 

Namaste,

 

It is backwards!

 

These two articles will be helpful:

 

http://www.yogamalika.org/GuruPurnima1.html

 

http://www.dlshq.org/teachings/sishya.htm

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

[Guest guest]

> When the teacher is ready, the student appears...or do I have that

> backwards?

 

Namaste,

 

The saying is:

" When the student is ready, the teacher appears. "

 

What does the word 'ready' mean? According to

traditional teachings (which this list is dedicated

to, and as I understand them) the student is 'ready'

when he or she has come to understand (at least to

a relative degree) that absolutely nothing in the

changing world of phenomena can ever make

a person truly happy.

 

We pursue the acquisition of objects, situations

and experiences, seeking happiness within the

realm of samsara, the world of changing phenomena.

But at some point, a person may come to understand

that none of the above is able to provide what one

actually wants, i.e. lasting happiness. All experiences

are temporary, and they are subject to change.

And often what was once perceived as a source

of great joy, later turns out to be a source of

great sorrow or disappointment.

 

At some point the actual situation may become evident

to a person. And that person may also to realize,

" I don't have an answer to this problem. " If and

when that happens, that person may just throw up

their hands in supplication to God, or the universe,

and with all sincerity pray, " If there is anyway out of this,

please help me, because I cannot figure this out on my own. "

 

Before getting to that point, we may still think

that we have an answer. We may still think we can

figure it on our own, or we may still think that we

can get our samsaric ducks to line up in a row. As

long as we think we have a solution, then we have

not yet recognized the problem, or our inability to

solve it alone.

 

Even in the realm of spiritual seeking we may not

quite understand that the end of seeking is not

the acquisition of better samsaric experiences.

The end of spiritual seeking is the freedom from

taking oneself to be bound by the effects

of changing experiences, not getting better ones.

 

If one has recognized the problem and realized one's

utter helplessness to solve it. And if one in all

sincerity asks for the solution, then at that point,

the teachings of Vedanta say, the teacher will appear.

 

This is said to be the promise woven into the

fabric of the creation, because ultimately this is

a compassionate creation. I need water to drink,

and there is water. I need air to breath, and there is air.

I need food to eat, there is food. And when a person

really 'needs' liberation from samsara, to the same extent

that that person needs food, air and water, the means of

Knowledge, the teacher, appears.

 

So that is the meaning of the saying,

" When the student is ready the teacher appears. "

 

Pranams,

Durga

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " Durga " <durgaji108 wrote:

>

>

> > When the teacher is ready, the student appears...or do I have

that

> > backwards?

>

> Namaste,

>

> The saying is:

> " When the student is ready, the teacher appears. "

>

> What does the word 'ready' mean? According to

> traditional teachings (which this list is dedicated

> to, and as I understand them) the student is 'ready'

> when he or she has come to understand (at least to

> a relative degree) that absolutely nothing in the

> changing world of phenomena can ever make

> a person truly happy.

>

> We pursue the acquisition of objects, situations

> and experiences, seeking happiness within the

> realm of samsara, the world of changing phenomena.

> But at some point, a person may come to understand

> that none of the above is able to provide what one

> actually wants, i.e. lasting happiness. All experiences

> are temporary, and they are subject to change.

> And often what was once perceived as a source

> of great joy, later turns out to be a source of

> great sorrow or disappointment.

>

> At some point the actual situation may become evident

> to a person. And that person may also to realize,

> " I don't have an answer to this problem. " If and

> when that happens, that person may just throw up

> their hands in supplication to God, or the universe,

> and with all sincerity pray, " If there is anyway out of this,

> please help me, because I cannot figure this out on my own. "

>

> Before getting to that point, we may still think

> that we have an answer. We may still think we can

> figure it on our own, or we may still think that we

> can get our samsaric ducks to line up in a row. As

> long as we think we have a solution, then we have

> not yet recognized the problem, or our inability to

> solve it alone.

>

> Even in the realm of spiritual seeking we may not

> quite understand that the end of seeking is not

> the acquisition of better samsaric experiences.

> The end of spiritual seeking is the freedom from

> taking oneself to be bound by the effects

> of changing experiences, not getting better ones.

>

> If one has recognized the problem and realized one's

> utter helplessness to solve it. And if one in all

> sincerity asks for the solution, then at that point,

> the teachings of Vedanta say, the teacher will appear.

>

> This is said to be the promise woven into the

> fabric of the creation, because ultimately this is

> a compassionate creation. I need water to drink,

> and there is water. I need air to breath, and there is air.

> I need food to eat, there is food. And when a person

> really 'needs' liberation from samsara, to the same extent

> that that person needs food, air and water, the means of

> Knowledge, the teacher, appears.

>

> So that is the meaning of the saying,

> " When the student is ready the teacher appears. "

>

> Pranams,

> Durga

>

Thanks for your replies. And I apologize. I meant the statement as a

joke but realize now that no one could SEE inflection on a computer

screen. Still, though, it seems that teacher/student " meeting "

requires readiness on both sides. I wonder if the bee might not be a

cause for the flower to open. If there is only One, then where is the

cause and effect? I wonder if we can really say one thing causes

another...teacher/student, cause/effect, bee/flower opening. These

seem to be halves of a whole, where neither can exist without the

other in their roles...best wishes and I apologize again. I won't

make jokes anymore.

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " otnac6 " <otnac6 wrote:

>

Still, though, it seems that teacher/student " meeting "

> requires readiness on both sides. I wonder if the bee might not be a

> cause for the flower to open. If there is only One, then where is the

> cause and effect? I wonder if we can really say one thing causes

> another...teacher/student, cause/effect, bee/flower opening. These

> seem to be halves of a whole, where neither can exist without the

> other in their roles...best wishes and I apologize again. I won't

> make jokes anymore.

 

Namaste,

 

Although Vedanta tells us that there is one alone, we also

for teaching purposes and for clarity, have a word called

'mithya.' We also use words such as, 'relative order of

reality' and 'absolute order of reality.'

 

On the absolute order of reality there is Brahman or

(the absolute) alone, but from the apparent/dependent

level of reality where action takes place, there is

cause and effect.

 

If you say 'halves of a whole' then you have divided

up the absolute. Once you have done that, you may

as well include cause and affect in the division,

because it's there.

 

In truth the absolute cannot be divided, and yet as

we look around all we see is diversity, and cause

and effect. How does that which is in truth indivisible

appear as diversity having a complex order, which

includes cause and effect?

 

This is the conundrum which the teachings seek to

make clear, and we have a words which account for it.

One word is 'mithya.' Mithya is what is called

a 'reality' word. As the word is 'unfolded' the

teacher and the scriptures seek to make clear how all

of this which we see and perceive is in the end

only one.

 

This isn't easy to understand. It takes a lot

of teaching and much unfoldment to 'get it.'

 

We also talk about 'level mixing' in these teachings.

Level mixing is taking that which only applies to

the absolute order of reality and applying it to

the relative, and vice versa.

 

An extreme example of level mixing is to say, 'I can

do anything I want because there is only oneness

here.' Such a statement does not take into account

the laws of cause and effect, or the consequences of

one's actions.

 

So the teachings first separate out the orders or

levels of reality. Explaining what applies to

the relative (dharma, adharma, right and wrong

action, cause and effect, etc), and what applies

to the absolute order of reality, which always

remains the same, immutable.

 

Once these two orders are properly understood, (at

least to a certain extent), then we examine, what

changes and what does not. This helps us recognize

that I indeed am that unchanging Brahman, 'the witness'

of this changing, and highly ordered world.

 

Only after all of this has been done, can we really go

back and successfully examine the creation in terms

of 'oneness.' How it is that all of this diversity

has only my self (Brahman)as its reality?

 

You cannot properly say, 'There is no cause and effect,

there is only oneness here.' To properly say that you

can only speak in terms of absolute reality, not about

flowers, bees, halves, teachers or students, to which

the words 'cause and effect' apply in spades.

 

To say 'There is no cause and effect, there is only

oneness here,' is to mix levels, or orders of reality,

taking that which applies only to the absolute order

of reality,and applying it to the relative.

 

So the teachings seek to unravel and explain all of

that to the student. To show you directly that you

are that unmoving Brahman, that you are not that which

comes and goes, to which the words 'cause and effect'

apply.

 

Then the teachings go back and revisit the creation,

once having successfully separated you from it. Then

we put it all back together in again, but in a way that

is completely different. Then we see that there is cause

and effect, and there is indeed only Brahman, to whom

nothing has ever happened.

 

But this cannot be done in one e-mail on an e-list. Nor

am I a teacher, or qualified to unfold the teachings.

To properly understand takes years and years of gradual

unfoldment and correct teaching by a qualified teacher.

And one needs to ask oneself, " Am I willing to make such

a commitment? Do I have enough confidence in the teacher

and the teaching and my own ability to understand that

I feel it will work? "

 

So prior to making this commitment and having the great

good fortune to find such a teacher, we can misunderstand a

lot, (and this is the voice of experience speaking).

 

Speaking personally (from the relative order of reality, which

is where speech takes place), I can only say it was well

worth making the commitment, and I'm glad that I was

blessed with the good fortune to do so, (although I would say

it was a commitment born of a combination of sheer despair

and great good fortune).

 

But prior to making such a commitment, and based upon

reading available materials on the subject, one might

say 'there is no cause and effect, there are only two

halves of a whole.' But once we divided the whole

into halves, we have let in cause and effect. :-)

 

To paraphrase (and change) a Buddhist saying,

'Once we have made the slightest distinction,

we have set heaven and earth infinitely apart,' or

I would say we have admitted their existence.

 

So first Vedanta actually teaches us is how to

distinguish the absolute from the relative,

how to set them apart, then we put them back together

again, but when we do, we can account for cause and effect,

and we can account for there being in truth only

oneness.

 

Pranams,

Durga

[Guest guest]

Hi Otnac6 (can we not have a more friendly name?),

 

I smiled when I saw your 'student appearing when the teacher is ready' and

it didn't occur to me that it would not be taken as a joke. But of course

you are right - this is a (usually) serious group and it is not possible to

read the face and voice from the written word. But what you say subsequently

is also thought provoking. Indeed the flower and the bee combination has to

be anyonya Ashraya (of which, as I recall, Sadananda-ji was just speaking).

It is just like the chicken and egg situation. The bee and the flower have

evolved in step so as to be interdependent. The bee needs the pollen and the

flower needs to be pollinated. And the flower does indeed open 'in

anticipation' of the bee coming, so that the bee could be considered as a

cause!

 

When everything is One, interdependency is an inevitability!

 

Best wishes,

Dennis

 

 

 

advaitin [advaitin ] On Behalf

Of otnac6

26 May 2007 14:14

advaitin

Re: RES: Having no teacher

 

 

..

 

<http://geo./serv?s=97359714/grpId=15939/grpspId=1705075991/msgId=3

6114/stime=1180185269/nc1=4507179/nc2=3848585/nc3=3848569>

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Dennis,

 

The name behind otnac6 is Steve. I'm not

sure what the name behind Steve is. Thanks for your

answer to my query earlier today! I like this

cyberplace!

 

Best wishes,

Steve and whatever may be behind it all...

--- Dennis Waite <dwaite wrote:

 

> Hi Otnac6 (can we not have a more friendly name?),

>

> I smiled when I saw your 'student appearing when the

> teacher is ready' and

> it didn't occur to me that it would not be taken as

> a joke. But of course

> you are right - this is a (usually) serious group

> and it is not possible to

> read the face and voice from the written word. But

> what you say subsequently

> is also thought provoking. Indeed the flower and the

> bee combination has to

> be anyonya Ashraya (of which, as I recall,

> Sadananda-ji was just speaking).

> It is just like the chicken and egg situation. The

> bee and the flower have

> evolved in step so as to be interdependent. The bee

> needs the pollen and the

> flower needs to be pollinated. And the flower does

> indeed open 'in

> anticipation' of the bee coming, so that the bee

> could be considered as a

> cause!

>

> When everything is One, interdependency is an

> inevitability!

>

> Best wishes,

> Dennis

>

>

>

> advaitin

> [advaitin ] On Behalf

> Of otnac6

> 26 May 2007 14:14

> advaitin

> Re: RES: Having no teacher

>

>

> .

>

>

<http://geo./serv?s=97359714/grpId=15939/grpspId=1705075991/msgId=3

>

6114/stime=1180185269/nc1=4507179/nc2=3848585/nc3=3848569[Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

 

 

 

 

______________________________\

____

Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play

Sims Stories at Games.

http://sims./

[Guest guest]

> Thanks for your replies. And I apologize. I meant the statement as

a

> joke but realize now that no one could SEE inflection on a

computer

> screen. Still, though, it seems that teacher/student " meeting "

> requires readiness on both sides. I wonder if the bee might not be

a

> cause for the flower to open. If there is only One, then where is

the

> cause and effect? I wonder if we can really say one thing causes

> another...teacher/student, cause/effect, bee/flower opening. These

> seem to be halves of a whole, where neither can exist without the

> other in their roles...best wishes and I apologize again. I won't

> make jokes anymore.

>

 

Hari Om. Salutations.

 

I have to tell you honestly, I really had a big laugh when I read

your 'backwards statement' LOL. :-) I am still smiling every time i

remember it. There is such an irony in that statement. It was really

a good joke. The only reason I didn't write because I thought if it

was not meant as a joke, then it would be very unkind to hurt

somebody by saying that 'it was very funny' . I also admired those

who responded to you and corrected you, because I couldn't have done

it with 'level head' because it was just plain funny ! :-)

 

Actually, like Dennisji, I too feel that the statement is valid even

other way round. As a students I can tell you, if any Masters is

visiting in the area where I live, I run to bask in Satsang like a

bee to flower. Company of Saints is very beautiful. They teach so

much, without saying much, and it leaves deep impact on us. Radical

lasting changes happen within, in company of Saints. You can only

experience them.

 

P.S. I wouldn't mind occasional jokes like these :-) of course I

don't know what this group's policy is.

 

Love and Respect

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " pjoshi99 " <pjoshi99 wrote:

>

> > Thanks for your replies. And I apologize. I meant the statement

as

> a

> > joke but realize now that no one could SEE inflection on a

> computer

> > screen. Still, though, it seems that teacher/student " meeting "

> > requires readiness on both sides. I wonder if the bee might not

be

> a

> > cause for the flower to open. If there is only One, then where is

> the

> > cause and effect? I wonder if we can really say one thing causes

> > another...teacher/student, cause/effect, bee/flower opening.

These

> > seem to be halves of a whole, where neither can exist without the

> > other in their roles...best wishes and I apologize again. I won't

> > make jokes anymore.

> >

>

> Hari Om. Salutations.

>

> I have to tell you honestly, I really had a big laugh when I read

> your 'backwards statement' LOL. :-) I am still smiling every time i

> remember it. There is such an irony in that statement. It was

really

> a good joke. The only reason I didn't write because I thought if it

> was not meant as a joke, then it would be very unkind to hurt

> somebody by saying that 'it was very funny' . I also admired those

> who responded to you and corrected you, because I couldn't have

done

> it with 'level head' because it was just plain funny ! :-)

>

> Actually, like Dennisji, I too feel that the statement is valid

even

> other way round. As a students I can tell you, if any Masters is

> visiting in the area where I live, I run to bask in Satsang like a

> bee to flower. Company of Saints is very beautiful. They teach so

> much, without saying much, and it leaves deep impact on us. Radical

> lasting changes happen within, in company of Saints. You can only

> experience them.

>

> P.S. I wouldn't mind occasional jokes like these :-) of course I

> don't know what this group's policy is.

>

> Love and Respect

>

Thanks, Pjoshi, for your sensitivity! I assure you, though, I

wouldn't have been offended. Laughter, humor is worthwhile even when

it's been at my " expense " . Not a personal issue. If Nasrudin had been

a " real person " , I think I would very much like to have been him! To

get everything wrong and backward...and to apparently care so little

about what others think.

 

I do try to look at everything backwards. I even read words

backwards. Sdrawkcab. Try to look at situations " in reverse " . The

Native Americans have a role in the tribe called " Contrarian " . This

person walks backwards, says " Goodbye " upon seeing someone,

says " Hello " when taking leave, stays up when others are asleep,

sleeps when others are awake, says food tastes horrible when he means

delicious, and vice versa. Everything backwards. Some have even died

in contrarian activities...imagine how our perceptions would change

engaging in such " practice " ...Seems to me Advaita is very

much " contrarian " ....best wishe, Steve.

[Guest guest]

Hey Steve ! Welcome aboard! who says " Vedanta is all work and no

play " ? In fact your statement on 'When the teacher is ready, the

student appears...or do I have that backwards? reminded me of a joke

which Swami Vishnu Devananda of Sivananda Ashram used to narrate in

his Satsanghs !

 

" Have you heard of the dyslexic cow who attained enlightenment? A.

It kept on repeating OOOOMMM! "

 

Smile :-)

 

In any case , you are not entirely off the mark when you say " when

the Teacher is ready , the student appears ... "

 

in fact , Guru Govindapada was totally ready to impart Brahmavidya

to young Adi shankara when the sanyasin appeared before him - here

is the story in a nutshell :

 

Adi Shankara bhagvadapada had already 'masically ( in mind) accpted

the great saint Govindapada as his Guru . One day , ADi shankara

while travelling with his disciples reached the banks of the narmada

river . There were some caves nearby where many greeat saints were

meditating for years and years ! Adi shankara Bhagvadpada reached

one such cave in Badrinath and saw the unique vision of the feet of

one such saint hanging out of the cave - Adi shankara clutched the

feet of the Saint and held on to them ! The saint was touched by

this show of great devotion and asked ' Who are you ? " Adi Shankara

replied " O revered Guru! I am neither fire nor air nor earth nor

water-none of these, but the Immortal Atma (Self) that is hidden in

all names and forms " . He also added " I am the son of Sivaguru, a

Brahmin of Kerala. My father died in my childhood. I was brought up

by my mother. I have studied the Vedas and the Shastras under a

teacher. I took Apath-sannyasa when a crocodile caught my foot while

I was taking bath in the river. Kindly initiate me formally into the

holy order of Sannyasa " .

 

Swami Govinda was very much pleased with the truthful narration

given by Sankara. Govindapada accepted YOUNG SHANKARA as his

disciple and TAUGHT HIM THE FINER NUANCES OF ADVAITA VEDANTA !

 

SO, STEVE , DO YOU SEE HOW THE GURU WAS READY TO RECEIVE HIS SISYA

WITH OPEN ARMS ?

 

 

There are many instances in the life of sufi bhakt Kabir das ji also

where you will see that the sisya ( Kabir) was able to instruct his

Guru ( Ramanand) on the finer nuances of Spirituality !

 

Incidentally , Sadaji 's analogy of the bee and the flower reminded

me of the following statement :

 

Religions are like flowers. Each religion is having its own nectar.

A bee shouldn't miss the nectar from different flowers. One should

act like a bee, which collects and stores the essence from different

flowers, and makes its own special honey. Like that, each one should

study all religions and all philosophies, digest them properly,

prepare his own philosophy according to his conscience and practice

it throughout his lifetime. But the more important thing is, the bee

should have its own freedom to wander wherever it wants. Like that,

each one should have the freedom of thinking, practicing, and

preaching whatever he believes. Like a bee which does not damage the

flower, he should not harm any religion. At the same time, he should

not be threatened or tempted to restrict his thinking or wandering.

This is the essence of Hinduism and also Shreemad Bhagavad Geethaa,

which is in dire need for the time. In Geethaa, Lord Shree Krishna

preached extensively to Arjuna about the pros and cons of his

options, and left the decision to his

conscience. " Vimrushaithadasheshena Yatheechhasi Thathaa Kuru. " He

said, " It is left up to you to make a decision. "

(His Holiness Shree Shree Sugunendra Theertha Swamiji of Jagadguru

Shree Madhwaachaarya Moola Mahaa Samsthaanam Udupi Shree Puthige

Math from India said on his concluding speech, in the world

conference assembly on religion and peace in Amman , Jordan , dec

18, 1999)

 

Steve , enjoy your stay in this cyber satsangha !

 

love and regards

 

 

advaitin , " otnac6 " <otnac6 wrote:

>

[Guest guest]

Lol...dyslexic cow! Ha! Love that! Thanks for the

welcome and the story. I look forward to this! Best

wishes!

--- dhyanasaraswati <dhyanasaraswati wrote:

 

> Hey Steve ! Welcome aboard! who says " Vedanta is all

> work and no

> play " ? In fact your statement on 'When the teacher

> is ready, the

> student appears...or do I have that backwards?

> reminded me of a joke

> which Swami Vishnu Devananda of Sivananda Ashram

> used to narrate in

> his Satsanghs !

>

> " Have you heard of the dyslexic cow who attained

> enlightenment? A.

> It kept on repeating OOOOMMM! "

>

> Smile :-)

>

> In any case , you are not entirely off the mark when

> you say " when

> the Teacher is ready , the student appears ... "

>

> in fact , Guru Govindapada was totally ready to

> impart Brahmavidya

> to young Adi shankara when the sanyasin appeared

> before him - here

> is the story in a nutshell :

>

> Adi Shankara bhagvadapada had already 'masically (

> in mind) accpted

> the great saint Govindapada as his Guru . One day ,

> ADi shankara

> while travelling with his disciples reached the

> banks of the narmada

> river . There were some caves nearby where many

> greeat saints were

> meditating for years and years ! Adi shankara

> Bhagvadpada reached

> one such cave in Badrinath and saw the unique vision

> of the feet of

> one such saint hanging out of the cave - Adi

> shankara clutched the

> feet of the Saint and held on to them ! The saint

> was touched by

> this show of great devotion and asked ' Who are you

> ? " Adi Shankara

> replied " O revered Guru! I am neither fire nor air

> nor earth nor

> water-none of these, but the Immortal Atma (Self)

> that is hidden in

> all names and forms " . He also added " I am the son of

> Sivaguru, a

> Brahmin of Kerala. My father died in my childhood. I

> was brought up

> by my mother. I have studied the Vedas and the

> Shastras under a

> teacher. I took Apath-sannyasa when a crocodile

> caught my foot while

> I was taking bath in the river. Kindly initiate me

> formally into the

> holy order of Sannyasa " .

>

> Swami Govinda was very much pleased with the

> truthful narration

> given by Sankara. Govindapada accepted YOUNG

> SHANKARA as his

> disciple and TAUGHT HIM THE FINER NUANCES OF ADVAITA

> VEDANTA !

>

> SO, STEVE , DO YOU SEE HOW THE GURU WAS READY TO

> RECEIVE HIS SISYA

> WITH OPEN ARMS ?

>

>

> There are many instances in the life of sufi bhakt

> Kabir das ji also

> where you will see that the sisya ( Kabir) was able

> to instruct his

> Guru ( Ramanand) on the finer nuances of

> Spirituality !

>

> Incidentally , Sadaji 's analogy of the bee and the

> flower reminded

> me of the following statement :

>

> Religions are like flowers. Each religion is having

> its own nectar.

> A bee shouldn't miss the nectar from different

> flowers. One should

> act like a bee, which collects and stores the

> essence from different

> flowers, and makes its own special honey. Like that,

> each one should

> study all religions and all philosophies, digest

> them properly,

> prepare his own philosophy according to his

> conscience and practice

> it throughout his lifetime. But the more important

> thing is, the bee

> should have its own freedom to wander wherever it

> wants. Like that,

> each one should have the freedom of thinking,

> practicing, and

> preaching whatever he believes. Like a bee which

> does not damage the

> flower, he should not harm any religion. At the same

> time, he should

> not be threatened or tempted to restrict his

> thinking or wandering.

> This is the essence of Hinduism and also Shreemad

> Bhagavad Geethaa,

> which is in dire need for the time. In Geethaa, Lord

> Shree Krishna

> preached extensively to Arjuna about the pros and

> cons of his

> options, and left the decision to his

> conscience. " Vimrushaithadasheshena Yatheechhasi

> Thathaa Kuru. " He

> said, " It is left up to you to make a decision. "

> (His Holiness Shree Shree Sugunendra Theertha

> Swamiji of Jagadguru

> Shree Madhwaachaarya Moola Mahaa Samsthaanam Udupi

> Shree Puthige

> Math from India said on his concluding speech, in

> the world

> conference assembly on religion and peace in Amman ,

> Jordan , dec

> 18, 1999)

>

> Steve , enjoy your stay in this cyber satsangha !

>

> love and regards

>

>

> advaitin , " otnac6 "

> <otnac6 wrote:

> >

>

>

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi Steve,

 

Just a reminder to yourself and others that we are fairly strict on the

group about deleting previous messages and just leaving any specific bits to

which we are responding. Helps to keep our inboxes light and, for those who

receive digests, means they don't have to keep their finger hard-down on the

scroll button.

 

Best wishes,

Dennis

 

 

 

advaitin [advaitin ] On Behalf

Of Steve Stoker

26 May 2007 19:07

advaitin

Re: RES: Having no teacher

 

 

..

 

<http://geo./serv?s=97359714/grpId=15939/grpspId=1705075991/msgId=3

6123/stime=1180202806/nc1=4507179/nc2=3848633/nc3=3848583>

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Okay, will do. Tks.

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

advaitin , " otnac6 " <otnac6 wrote:

>

 

>

> I do try to look at everything backwards. I even read words

> backwards. Sdrawkcab. Try to look at situations " in reverse " ...

 

..Seems to me Advaita is very

> much " contrarian " ....best wishe, Steve.

 

Hi Steve,

 

If you like seeing everything 'backwards' try this.

It is said that what appears as day for a jnani

(one with self-knowledge) appears as night for an ajnani

(one without self-knowledge) and vice versa.

 

So that's a thought worth pondering, although I'm not

sure that from the perspective of ajnana (lack of self-knowledge)

a person could figure it out On the other hand for a jnani,

it's meaning is said to be clear as day. :-)

 

Hari Om,

Durga

[Guest guest]

Hi Durga,

Self Inquiry seems to be a " backwards " activity, turning the

mind " inward " , rather than " outward " . To ask " Who am I " ? rather than

saying, thinking or pretending to know who I am. Of course those are

relative terms. Guess I can't really find the outward or inward! Best,

Steve

[Guest guest]

Hey Steve :

 

René Descartes ((1596 – 1650), the great French Philosopher

mathematician, scientist, and writer, said " I Think, Therefore I Am "

( as cogito ergo sum ) but Advaitins say " I am , therefore I think "

 

AS SRI RAMANA BHAGWAN SAYS :

 

Do not meditate – be!

Do not think that you are – be!

Do not think about being – you are!

 

Love and Regards

 

ps One of these days i will share my Mulla Nasuruddin jokes - i have a

huge repertoire .

 

 

 

advaitin , " otnac6 " <otnac6 wrote:

>

> Hi Durga,

> Self Inquiry seems to be a " backwards " activity, turning the

> mind " inward " , rather than " outward " .

[Guest guest]

Hi Dhyan,

 

Sounds " right " to me!

Best wishes, Steve.

 

 

 

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