Book Of The One - Qualification of a teacher

[Guest guest]

--- Dennis Waite <dwaite wrote:

 

>

> It follows from both of these that the 'final piece

> of knowledge' could come

> just as well from one who is not enlightened as from

> one who is. You may

> argue relative probabilities but I don't see how you

> can argue the fact.

>

> Best wishes,

> Dennis

 

PraNAms to everyone

 

Here is my understanding:

 

Three requirements are prescribed by the scriptures

for jnaana to take place.

 

Shravanam, mananam and nidhidhyasanam

 

Shravanam involves consistent systematic study of the

scriptures for a prolonged length of time under a

competent live teacher. Competent teacher is one who

has done shravanam, mananam and nidhidhyaasaanam under

a competent teacher - thus both sampradaaya (a

methodology of teaching) and guru parampara ( a

lineage of teacher-taught) are established.

 

Mananam involves reflecting on the teachings received

from a competent teacher until there are no more

doubts. One should be absolutely certain about one's

knowledge.

 

Nidhidhyaasana is contemplating on the teachings until

it is internalized as a fact rather than an

intellectual concept that can be appreciated.

 

Scripture advises to approach a teacher who is

shrotriam and brahmanishTam - the one who has both

knowledge of the scriptures ( which also means one who

has heard the teaching from his teacher) and one who

has established in that Brahman.

 

Now question arises- how do we know one is

BrahmannishhTa or not. That kind of inquiry will not

lead us any where.

 

There is absolutely no litmus test to tell us whether

the other person has realized or not. Krishna's

teachings in the Sthitaprajnaa lakshanas are not meant

for evaluating whether some X,Y,Z has realized or not

but to evaluate on self. The bottom line is one

cannot know if the one who is teaching is realized or

not. Even if the teacher says, yes, there is no way

you can confirm that statement. Hence no teacher with

the right mind would declare that he is realized. Only

the student declares that my master is realized. Even

Bhagavaan Ramana maharshi - that name was given by one

Shastri who felt he is the great sage who has

realized.

 

Then how to solve this puzzle. It is said that an

appropriate teacher will come when one is ready. It

is only by the grace of god that one is lead to a

proper teacher - manushyatvam, mumukshatvam,

mahaapurusha samsrayam daivaanugraha hetukam- It is

graceful way of saying - ultimately one's own sadhana

will lead him to appropriate teacher.

 

One has to discover that one is my teacher since no

teacher will declare that 'I am your teacher'. There

will be many great souls that one encounters in his

pursuit of knowledge. When one discovers that because

of this particular person I am able to understand

fully and completely, one will feel extremely grateful

for that teacher and He is the right teacher. In

Vedanta a right teacher is the one who directs his

disciples to the scriptures as the authority for the

right knowledge rather to himself. The reason is

simple; personal experiences of the teacher do not

form a pramaaNa or a means of knowledge. It is the

scripture that alone is the pramaaNa. It is like any

science - text book or published literature - which

forms the pramaaNa and not the unpublished individual

subjective experiences, unless they are confirmed and

passed by the peer-review. Vedas are recordings of

time-tested experiences of the great souls who left

their knowledge in condensed form - hence shrotriam is

the requirement for the teacher.

 

The best thing to do is to listen to the scriptural

discourses available without worrying about whether

the teacher is realized or not, since that kind of

question will lead no where. The teaching has to be

intellectually convincing, yet based on the scriptural

confirmation. Without the later, the former can be

invalidated. With that kind of faith, even if the

teacher is not realized, the student can. That is the

glory of the teaching. We have instances in the past

where the teacher himself later became the disciple of

his own student.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

[Guest guest]

advaitin , kuntimaddi sadananda

<kuntimaddisada wrote:

 

>

> Then how to solve this puzzle. It is said that an

> appropriate teacher will come when one is ready. It

> is only by the grace of god that one is lead to a

> proper teacher - manushyatvam, mumukshatvam,

> mahaapurusha samsrayam daivaanugraha hetukam- It is

> graceful way of saying - ultimately one's own sadhana

> will lead him to appropriate teacher.

>

> One has to discover that one is my teacher since no

> teacher will declare that 'I am your teacher'. There

> will be many great souls that one encounters in his

> pursuit of knowledge. When one discovers that because

> of this particular person I am able to understand

> fully and completely, one will feel extremely grateful

> for that teacher and He is the right teacher. In

> Vedanta a right teacher is the one who directs his

> disciples to the scriptures as the authority for the

> right knowledge rather to himself. The reason is

> simple; personal experiences of the teacher do not

> form a pramaaNa or a means of knowledge. It is the

> scripture that alone is the pramaaNa. It is like any

> science - text book or published literature - which

> forms the pramaaNa and not the unpublished individual

> subjective experiences, unless they are confirmed and

> passed by the peer-review. Vedas are recordings of

> time-tested experiences of the great souls who left

> their knowledge in condensed form - hence shrotriam is

> the requirement for the teacher.

>

 

>

> Hari Om!

> Sadananda

 

Namaste,

 

Just to add to this great post of Sadanandaji's,

 

Here is my understanding, which was told to me by

my teacher, who is a Brahmanistha and a Shrotriya.

 

According to the tradition, it is best if the teacher

is both a Brahmanishtha and a Shrotriya. However, it

is held that if you have to choose between the two,

it is better to choose a Shrotriya, (who is not a

Brahmanishta), over someone who is a Brahmanistha,

but cannot wield the pramana or unfold the vision.

 

This is a very simple either or statement, and IMO, and

in my experience, it doesn't take into account the

personal student/teacher relationship, which is also

extremely important.

 

One can meet someone who is both a Shrotriya and a

Brahmanishta, and yet, for some reason (IMO karmic),

that highly qualified teacher might not be the correct

teacher for that student, even though the student

is a mumukshu.

 

So, although the vision is one, the truth is the truth,

and the self is the self, still it seems to me, and in my

experience, the skill of the teachers can vary widely, and also

vary in terms of matching up with the needs of a

particular student.

 

And some teachers might be better in different areas

of unfoldment than others.

 

Perhaps one teacher is really skilled in explicating

drig/drisha viveka, and another in helping the student

to see that 'I am the whole.' Another might be better

at certain psychological examinations that need to

take place. Then there are cultural considerations

as well.

 

Luckily it's all in Ishwara's hands, and if our karmas

are ripe and good, we will be led to the proper teacher,

who can offer us just what we need, at the proper time.

And if we feel that we are not getting what we need,

we can always offer a prayer and make a humble request.

 

Pranams,

Durga

 

>

[Guest guest]

Sadaji writes :

 

( We have instances in the past where the teacher himself later

became the disciple of his own student. )

 

In this context , i would like to bring to you an incident that

occurred in the life of Sufi bhakta Kabir das ji and his guru

Ramanand !

 

One day , Guru Ramanand was praying in the puja room and Kabir was

in the other room meditating ! There was a wall between the two

rooms !

 

The guru started doing puja to Lord Ram - one by one the guru started

decorating the idol of Sri Rama . When the guru started to put the

flower garland around Sri Rama's neck '. he was unable to do so!

Kabir , who was in the other room, shouted ' Gurudeva! please take

out the crown on Sri Rama's head, put the garland first and then put

on the crown'

 

RAMANAND WAS TAKEN ABACK - HOW CAN KABIR WHO IS IN THE OTHER ROOM

KNOW WHAT WAS HAPPENING ?

 

Ramanand IMMEDIATELY realized Kabir is no ordinary disciple but one

endowed with the makings of a great jnani . Ramanand was overcome

with joy and hugged kabir and said ' you are the most qualified

among all my disciples to receive my instructions' - This is

specially significant because Ramanad was a hindu Guru and Kabir was

a muslim weaver and in the India of those days , it was quite

revolutionary for a hindu guru to accept a muslim as a disciple !

 

Kabir das ji pays this wonderful tribute to a guru

 

 

Guru Govind donu khade, kisko laagu paay, Balihari Gurudevaki jinhe

Govind diyo bataay.

 

" The Guru and Govind (God), are both in front of me, whose feet

shall I touch first? Glory to the Guru since he showed me God. "

 

Adi Shankara Bhagvadapada also says

 

" If a person, despite possessing a handsome, disease-free body,

fame, a mountain of wealth, and even if s/he has studied the Vedas

and all other scriptures, and has composed many scriptures, but has

not surrendered at the feet of a Guru, then s/he has achieved

nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing. "

 

Sri Gurave Namaha !