Guest guest Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 With reference to qualification of the Teacher - Shankara has this to say regarding, 'should one learn from Shotriyam who may not be Brahma nishTa or from Brahma nishhTa but who no sampradaaya in teaching the scriptures. Shankara uses this strong language here: 'asampradaayavit muurkhavat upekshaNiiyaH' - having come from gurushishya parampara if he has no sampradaaya in communicating the truth, even if one is maahaa jnaani or brahma nishTa, you can only do namaskaara to him and go away. One can seek his blessing but one cannot seek his guidance. Seeking blessing is one thing but seeking guidance is quite another. It is like a professor who cannot guide his students properly 'what one can do what one cannot do' or practical problems that one encounters on the path- We need a teacher who is compassionate enough and guides the student properly to overcome the obstacles. Arjuna asked the same question again and again - should I practice karma yoga and should I practice jnaana yoga. Hay Krishna, you glorify jnaana yoga on one side and then push me to this terrible action that involves killing. Tell me what exactly to do - is sanyaasa better or performs ones duties here better, etc. Krishna patiently answers every time as though Arjuna is asking it for the first time. After listening to all this, in the eighteenth chapter, the same question is repeated again by Arjuna in one form or the other. Krishna every time answers in a way as though Arjuna is asking it for the first time a very good question and then answers again. Hence the emphasis is not only on guru-parampara but a sampradaaya in teaching method, since the topic is very subtle one; and we miss all the time even after years of learning Vedanta. Some people think Atma itself is a teacher. Atma cannot teach - akartaaham abhoktaaham - it is a non-doer, period. Some people say nature or world itself is a teacher, particularly after listening to Uddhava Gita. World teaches lot of things- but to pick up aatma vidya one needs a subtle intellect or required discriminative facuty which can come only after listening to scriptures systematically from a live teacher for prolonged length of time (shravaNam). There are no other direct paths to knowledge. Hari Om! Sadananda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 Nameste Sri Kuntimaddi, I understand you point, and like the reference to the Gita. My own understanding of this is more from practice, and less from reading (though I have carefully read a number on Sankara works, and especially enjoyed his commentary of the Gita.) So I think of examples to try to illustrate your point. One thing I think is wonderful about Ramana Maharshi is that after Self-realization, he took some years to educate himself in Vedanta, with Sankara, Vasishta, Ribhu and more. So even his earliest teachings, recorded in the small books, " Self-inquiry " and " Who am I " one can see the classic teaching expressed from his 'stand' as a jnani. So I feel Sri Ramana is a great example of the teacher who is both Shotriyam and Brahma nishTa. I have met some who have much mental understanding of Sankara and Advaita Vedanta, but without much in the way of apparent Self- knowledge. I do not feel they would offer much to the seeker. I do not know teachers well enough to give a well-known example of this (and would not do so anyway). In terms of teachers I know of who are Brahma nishTa and NOT Shotriyam, may I suggest an example (at the risk of perhaps upsetting some who love their teacher). Here I know I come from a pretty narrow knowledge of teachers. I am American, and have come to Advaita late in life after the great good fortune of finding a teacher who is both Shotriyam and Brahma nishTa. I know only of some teachers known the West. One example of one not Shotriyam is, I think, Eckhart Tolle. As I listen to him, or read from his books, I can see Self-knowledge, but I miss the teaching from deep knowledge of Vedanta. This teaching can open the direct expereince of the Self to the seeker, and so is a powerful element within nondual teaching. There are other examples, but probably not worth delving any further in this line of discussion. When I first started hearing Advaita teaching, this mind was taken aback by the teaching, 'The world is not real, the Self is real.' Somehow I wanted Nome to 'simplify and modernize' this teaching for Westerners. After years of listening, reflecting and deep meditation, I have come to see that this is a direct expression of the deepest teaching available. And that it is vital, since so long as we hold to the world as a source of happiness, we will stay in illusion, and the practice will not get deeper. I have also come to appreciate that knowing of this teaching has opened up the world of Sankara et al to me. So now I see it as an incredible gift. For me the best of teachers will stand as That, and express the wisdom of Vedanta from direct experience. With such a teacher one can know they speak the Truth. Knowing this, the teacher can draw the seeker into the Truth, with the knowledge that there is no difference between the Truth and the seeker. Not two, Richard advaitin , kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada wrote: > > With reference to qualification of the Teacher - > Shankara has this to say regarding, 'should one learn > from Shotriyam who may not be Brahma nishTa or from > Brahma nishhTa but who no sampradaaya in teaching the > scriptures. Shankara uses this strong language here: > > 'asampradaayavit muurkhavat upekshaNiiyaH' - having > come from gurushishya parampara if he has no > sampradaaya in communicating the truth, even if one is > maahaa jnaani or brahma nishTa, you can only do > namaskaara to him and go away. One can seek his > blessing but one cannot seek his guidance. Seeking > blessing is one thing but seeking guidance is quite > another. > > It is like a professor who cannot guide his students > properly 'what one can do what one cannot do' or > practical problems that one encounters on the path- We > need a teacher who is compassionate enough and guides > the student properly to overcome the obstacles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 Shree Richard - PraNAms There are always exceptions to the rule, but we cannot make rules out of exceptions. The point is one cannot evaluate if the other is BrahmanishhTaa or not. We need a teacher who has clearly understood the scriptures and is able to communicate that to the benefit of the student. Normally the teacher should have full conviction before he can communicate that to a student. Student will discover his teacher as well, once the student is full convinced without any doubts - shravanam and mananam. The teacher's job is done with that. The student has to contemplate on the teachings until that truth becomes one with him - nidhidhyaasanam. Anyway, what is important is that one requires a consistent systematic study of scriptures under a competent live teacher for a prolonged length of time - and that is what is called shravanam. There are no short cuts to that. I am familiar with Ekhart Tole's teaching as well as that of Peace pilgrim. Hari Om! Sadananda --- Richard Clarke <richard wrote: > > I understand you point, and like the reference to > the Gita. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2007 Report Share Posted June 3, 2007 Dear Shri Sadananda. Namakarams. I have been following all your posts and files in this group ever since I became a member a few months back. All your writings are simple, precise and to the point. There is certainly no shortcut to vedanta and sravanam,mananam,and nidityasanam is must for any sincere seeker. To start with a shrotriya is enough and to get a brahmanishta as your guru needs the blessing of the lord. That happens at a time choosen by the lord. As for knowing a person whether he is a brhamanishta again is also a blessing. When you meet such a person the very presence of him impacts you in a way that cannot be described. I have personally experienced this when I saw my manaseega guru Swami Dayananda Saraswathyy and I could prostrate right in the passage of kamaraj hall years back. Many a time what I thought is the answer to many a question raised in this group synchronises with yours in your posts. Your writings reflect the indepth knowledge of yours in the subject, I am blessed by lord krishna to know you through this group. May lord krishna bless us all baskaran Recent Activity 5 New Members 2 New Files Visit Your Group Finance It's Now Personal Guides, news, advice & more. Photos Easy Upload Share photos now Y! Messenger All together now Host a free online conference on IM. . BASKARAN.C.S Did you know? You can CHAT without downloading messenger. Know how! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 2007 Report Share Posted June 3, 2007 Shree Baskaran - PraNAms. Thank you for your kind words. I have learned a lot from Shree Swami Dayanandaji when he was with Chinmaya Mission (in fact I used to organize his talks) and I learned a lot from Swami Paramarthanandaji in Chennai, who studied under Swami Dayanandaji when he was a student at Sandeepany Sadhanalaya in Bombay. When I spend my 6 months every year in Chennai, I associate myself with Swami Paramarthanandaji as much as I can. I have written notes on Brahmasuutra based on his talks and they are stored in the advaitin archives. I am ever grateful to all the teachers who helped me to grow to the degree I could. Yes only with the grace of God one gets acquaintance of Mahatmaas and that is rare indeed. When one sees the beauty and light of that consciousness enlivening in every being, the vision of vedanta is complete and the teaching is fulfilled. That teacher who provides that vision through teaching is indeed the right teacher. Hari Om! Sadananda --- Baskaran <baskaran42 wrote: > Dear Shri Sadananda. > > Namakarams. I have been following all your posts > and files in this group ever since I became a > member a few months back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.