Guest guest Posted July 14, 2007 Report Share Posted July 14, 2007 Dear learned members, Namaskar. I am a student of Vedanta. I learn a lot from the group. I have a question to ask: What is rta " ? How is it different from " sat " ? Here is my research: I have seen people define rta as some kind of cosmic-order, and " something more metaphysical than dharma " . It comes up in quite a few daily-recited mantras in the following way: (1) In aghavmarsha-sukta as " rtam ca satyam caBhiDhaTapasoDhyajAyata .... " . (2) As part of the Krishna Yajurveda shanthi mantra " shamno mitraShyam varunah .... " as " rtam vachmi satyam vachmi " . (3) The same line " rtam vachmi satyam vachmi " comes in Ganapathi Atharvasirsha as well. John Grimes (in his Ganapathi: " Song of the Self " ) translates the rta as the scriptural truth, while satya as the experiential-truth. (4) In the entire Bhagavad Gita (as far as I know: the learned members can correct me) it comes only once: in 10-14, when Arjuna exclaims that " sarvam etad ritam manye yan mam vadasi kesava na hi te bhagavan vyaktim vidur deva na danavah " Meaning: O Krishna, I totally accept as " truth " all that You have told me. Neither the demigods nor the demons, O Lord, can understand Your personality. == What do the learned members have to say about rta? Can you please post some more pramaanas for rta and explain how is it different from satya? Is rta is important in the world? If so how? Do we have to preserve it? If so how? Has any classification of rta been done -- by our vedantic teachers -- not unlike the other important vedantic concept of sat (as paaramarthika/vyavaharika/pratibhashika). If so, can you please post some references? Finally, how important is rta from the perspective of Advaita? Dhanyavaad Ramakrishna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 Pranams Shri Ramakrishna-ji I am not sure if this question of yours has been answered yet - I was sure our dear Sunder-ji would have provided his customary scholarly reply and was eagerly awaiting this. In the meanwhile, I can provide you my understanding. Rtam refers to Dharma - the closest transaltion may be the Order, the Cosmic or Divine Order, which is none other than Ishwara. Satyam in this particular context is truthfulness and is one aspect of Rtam. When my thoughts, my speech and my actions are all aligned then my personality is integrated. I enjoy a conflict-free mind. Such a mind is readily attuned to vedantic shravanam and mananam. Why two words - is not what is dharmic what is rta always satyam Yes. However there may be situations where the value of what is dharmic supersedes the relative virtue of truth. Pitamah Bhishma-ji had taken a vow, a hasty one at that, of allegiance to the Hastinapura crown at all costs. In order to uphold the sanctity or satyam of that vow meant being a mute spectator to the disrobing of Draupadi. Had he stepped forth he could have stopped Duryodhana with ease, yet the relative value he attached to upholding his spoken word - his vow - made him a willing propogator of adharma. The irony here is that Bhisma-ji was one of those exalted souls who was considered a veritable encyclopedia of dharma - while he is lying on his deathbed, Lord Narayana asks Dharma-raja Yudhistara to learn some valuable lessons in dharma from him before he departs! What is clear from this is - what is rtam, what is dharmic is thus not always easy to understand for a jiva, even if he be the most exalted and venered - in a flash can tamas blind him from the right action. How can i determine what is rtam then? There is only one way - pray. Pray to the very Order that is Dharma, that is Ishwara, that with my infinitesmally limited intellect and knowledge and power I, a jiva, a member of the society who is called on to act at this given time in this given situation - may what i do, and what i say, be in keeping with Your Order, O Ishwara. [And this Cosmic Will is referred to in other religions as well - " Thy Will be done " or " Insha Allah " etc] Let me not be opposed to dharma either through an act of commission or an act of ommission. Why is this important for a student of vedanta, for a spiritual aspirant? It is because of the law of karma and karmaphala. Any action of mine that violates dharma will lead to consequences - and in my case, as a spiritual aspirant, what would be concern to me would be that conditions conducive to my learning, my growth and maturity, may cease, and for this alone, again, I need His Grace. In order that my journey not take an unexpected turn i firmly strive to uphold these two tenets - righteous action and truthful speech - dharmam chara, satyam vada. Again satyam is what is beneficial to the individual, besides being true. A factually accurate utterance spoken in anger to put down a person is never considered satyam. I look forward to reading Sunder-ji (and other learned scholars) pen their thoughts on this topic. Shri Gurubhyo namah Hari OM Shyam advaitin , " uramakrsna " <ramakrsn wrote: > > Dear learned members, > > Namaskar. I am a student of Vedanta. I learn a lot from the group. > > > I have a question to ask: What is rta " ? How is it different from " sat " ? > > Here is my research: I have seen people define rta as some kind of cosmic-order, and > " something more metaphysical than dharma " . It comes up in quite a few daily-recited > mantras in the following way: > > (1) In aghavmarsha-sukta as " rtam ca satyam caBhiDhaTapasoDhyajAyata ..... " . > > (2) As part of the Krishna Yajurveda shanthi mantra " shamno mitraShyam varunah ... " as > " rtam vachmi satyam vachmi " . > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 Nmaste Shym-Ji: Thank you for sharing your thoughts your We had discussed this before that may provide additional information: advaitin/message/23157 advaitin/message/20526 advaitin/message/20406 Kind Rregards, Dr. Yadu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 Namaste, A complementary resource is at: http://www.ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/sep98/0112.html Regards, Sunder advaitin , " ymoharir " <ymoharir wrote: > > Thank you for sharing your thoughts your > > We had discussed this before that may provide additional information: > > advaitin/message/23157 > > advaitin/message/20526 > > advaitin/message/20406 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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