Guest guest Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 Namaskarams Venkatji ! You write: ( Adi Sankaracharya singing those numerous stutis in praise of almost all 'prominent Gods and ) Goddesses " . Can you visualize what state he might have been in ? ) Yes! Here is your answer from none other than Sri Ramana Bhagwan himself! " There is the Tantric Advaita which admits three fundamentals jagat, jiva, Isvara - world, soul, God. These three are also real. But the Reality does not end with them. It extends beyond. That is the Tantric Advaita. The Reality is limitless. The three fundamentals do not exist apart from the Absolute Reality. All agree that Reality is all-pervading; that Isvara pervades jiva; therefore the jiva has eternal being. His knowledge is not limited. Limited knowledge is only imagined by him. In truth, his is infinite knowledge. Its limit is Silence. This truth was revealed by Dakshinamurti. For those who still perceive these three fundamentals they are said to be realities. They are concomitant with the ego. True, the images of gods are described in great detail. Such description points only to the final Reality. Otherwise why is the special significance of each detail also given? Think. The image is only a symbol. Only that which lies beyond name and form is Reality. Saiva Siddhanta and Vedanta have the common aim of the same Truth. *Otherwise how could Sri Sankaracharya, the greatest exponent of Advaita, sing praises of gods? Obviously he did so knowingly.* http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~alfar2/ramana.htm Read furthermore When one of Adi Shankara's disciples questioned him: " mumukSunNA kiM tvaritaM vidheyam? " " What should the seeker who is desirous to attain Salvation do immediately? Acarya's reply: " satsangatir nirmamateza bhaktiH " Adi Shankaracarya replied " that the bonds of material attachment should be broken, and the mind attached to God and the aspirants should seek the Association of Saints. " The desciple again asked: " kiM karma kRtvA na zocanIyaM? " " What is that work which a wise man performs and does not repent? " Adi Shankaracarya immediately said: " kAmAri-kaMsAri amarcanAkhyam " " One who is devoted to God (Lord Krishna) is carefree. In fact Acharya Shankara, the greatest advicate of Advaita doctrine, advised his Own Mother Aryambaal to practice devotion to Lord Krishna and Blessed her with the Vision of the Lord at the time of her leaving this mortal world ! . Not only that, listen to his next proclamation - " kAmyopAsana yArthayanty anudinaM kincit phalaM svepsitam,kecit svargam athApavargam apare yogAdi yajnAdibhiH,asmAkaM yadunandanAMghri yugala dhyAnAvadhAnArthinAm,kiM lokena damena kiM nRpatinA svargApavargaizca kiM? " " Those who waste their time for the attainment of celestial joys or Liberation (mukti- apavarga) are Fools! I DO not want any of that ! O I only desire to remain engrossed in the Sweet Remembrance of the Lotus Feet of Lord Krishna. What is the need for heaven or Mukti to Prema Bhaktas of Lord? " Thus Sri Shankara appears to consider all objects, including final Liberation as insignificant in comparison to constant Loving Meditation of the Lotus Feet of Lord Krishna! One needs to read 'Prabodha Sudhakara' to understand the Acharya's Divine Love for the lotus feet of the Lord Krishna!In this beautiful composition , Adi Shankara bhagavadapada combines both bhakti and vedanta . here is one verse from that text ... nity-Anand-aikarasaM sach-chinmAtraM svayaM-jyotiH . purushhottamam-ajam-IshaM vande shrii-yAdav-AdhIsham.h .. I adore Krishna, the Supreme Person, the Unborn Lord, the Self-effulgent One, the Supreme Lord of the descendents of Yadu, Whose nature is that of existence and consciousness, and Whose essence is entirely that of eternal bliss. But in this same treatise ( Prabodha Sudhakara) Acharya also talks about 'vairagya' .. Some of the greatest vedantins are also great bhaktas . Madhusudana saraswati was one . Venkatji , you mentioned about Ramalinga Adigal. This is what he says about ENLIGHTENMENT! " Mukthi enbadhu nilai munnuru sadhanam, Siddhi enbadhu nilai serndha anubhavam " do you know Tamizh! Yes the great shaiva siddhas like Ramalinga Adgal or vallalar called this state of enlightenment as 'Arul perum jyoti " ( infinite grace and light) i don't think you should ever apologize for being a 'bhakta' - a true bhakta always prays to lord thus " let me be born again and again so i can worship your lotus feet " - in fact , Kunti devi even goes to this extent while praying to Lord Krishna ' Oh Lord! Give me so much sorrow that i can never forget you " - Human tendency is to forget lord in good times! Venkat-ji , God may even grant you 'mukthi' but to have ' bhakti' in your heart, you need to take countless janmas! In this kali yuga , nama japa is the easiest way! Lord Krishna says in chapter 11 , verse 54 bhaktya tv ananyaya sakya aham evam-vidho 'rjuna jnatum drastum ca tattvena pravestum ca parantapa My dear Arjuna, only by undivided devotional service can I be understood as I am, standing before you, and can thus be seen directly. Only in this way can you enter into the mysteries of My understanding. Vasudevam Sarvam iti! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 Sadanandaji, What a masterpiece of a reply ! No doubt the world looks for Bharat and its wise thinkers for guidance to this day. So to conclude, I take it that, a true Gnani can also be a Bhaktha to an equal degree and vice versa. Bhakthi bestows Gnana (of the absolute) and Vice versa. Yes, I know and adore Tamil (not in the fanatic way!) and love its subtlety. My awakening has been only recent and now only have started the Divya prabanda and some originals of Tamil works. Sankrit is equally demanding. So much to do. Life seems so short. Hare krishna Venkatasubramanian advaitin , " dhyanasaraswati " <dhyanasaraswati wrote: > > Namaskarams Venkatji ! > > You write: > > ( Adi Sankaracharya singing those numerous stutis in praise of > almost all 'prominent Gods and ) Goddesses " . Can you visualize what > state he might have been in ? ) > > Yes! Here is your answer from none other than Sri Ramana Bhagwan > himself! > > " There is the Tantric Advaita which admits three fundamentals jagat, > jiva, Isvara - world, soul, God. These three are also real. But the > Reality does not end with them. It extends beyond. That is the > Tantric Advaita. The Reality is limitless. The three fundamentals do > not exist apart from the Absolute Reality. All agree that Reality is > all-pervading; that Isvara pervades jiva; therefore the jiva has > eternal being. His knowledge is not limited. Limited knowledge is > only imagined by him. In truth, his is infinite knowledge. Its limit > is Silence. This truth was revealed by Dakshinamurti. For those who > still perceive these three fundamentals they are said to be > realities. They are concomitant with the ego. > > True, the images of gods are described in great detail. Such > description points only to the final Reality. Otherwise why is the > special significance of each detail also given? Think. The image is > only a symbol. Only that which lies beyond name and form is Reality. > Saiva Siddhanta and Vedanta have the common aim of the same Truth. > *Otherwise how could Sri Sankaracharya, the greatest exponent of > Advaita, sing praises of gods? Obviously he did so knowingly.* > > http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~alfar2/ramana.htm > > Read furthermore > > When one of Adi Shankara's disciples questioned him: > > " mumukSunNA kiM tvaritaM vidheyam? " > > " What should the seeker who is desirous to attain Salvation do > immediately? > > Acarya's reply: " satsangatir nirmamateza bhaktiH " > > Adi Shankaracarya replied " that the bonds of material attachment > should be broken, and the mind attached to God and the > aspirants should seek the Association of Saints. " > > > The desciple again asked: " kiM karma kRtvA na zocanIyaM? " > > " What is that work which a wise man performs and does > not repent? " > > Adi Shankaracarya immediately said: " kAmAri-kaMsAri amarcanAkhyam " > > " One who is devoted to God (Lord Krishna) is carefree. > > In fact Acharya Shankara, the greatest advicate of Advaita doctrine, > advised his Own Mother Aryambaal to practice devotion to Lord > Krishna and Blessed her with the Vision of the Lord at the time of > her leaving this mortal world ! . > > > Not only that, listen to his next proclamation > > - " kAmyopAsana yArthayanty anudinaM kincit phalaM svepsitam,kecit > svargam athApavargam apare yogAdi yajnAdibhiH,asmAkaM > yadunandanAMghri yugala dhyAnAvadhAnArthinAm,kiM lokena damena kiM > nRpatinA svargApavargaizca kiM? " > > " Those who waste their time for the attainment of celestial joys or > Liberation (mukti- apavarga) are Fools! I DO not want any of that ! O > I only desire to remain engrossed in the Sweet Remembrance of the > Lotus Feet of Lord Krishna. What is the need for heaven or > Mukti to Prema Bhaktas of Lord? " > > Thus Sri Shankara appears to consider all objects, including final > Liberation as insignificant in comparison to constant Loving > Meditation of the Lotus Feet of Lord Krishna! > > > One needs to read 'Prabodha Sudhakara' to understand the Acharya's > Divine Love for the lotus feet of the Lord Krishna!In this beautiful > composition , Adi Shankara bhagavadapada combines both bhakti and > vedanta . here is one verse from that text ... > > nity-Anand-aikarasaM sach-chinmAtraM svayaM-jyotiH . > purushhottamam-ajam-IshaM vande shrii-yAdav-AdhIsham.h .. > > I adore Krishna, > the Supreme Person, > the Unborn Lord, > the Self-effulgent One, > the Supreme Lord of > the descendents of Yadu, > Whose nature is that of > existence and consciousness, > and Whose essence is > entirely that of eternal bliss. > > But in this same treatise ( Prabodha Sudhakara) Acharya also talks > about 'vairagya' .. > > Some of the greatest vedantins are also great bhaktas . Madhusudana > saraswati was one . > > Venkatji , you mentioned about Ramalinga Adigal. This is what he > says about ENLIGHTENMENT! > > " Mukthi enbadhu nilai munnuru sadhanam, Siddhi enbadhu nilai > serndha anubhavam " > > do you know Tamizh! Yes the great shaiva siddhas like Ramalinga > Adgal or vallalar called this state of enlightenment as 'Arul perum > jyoti " ( infinite grace and light) > > i don't think you should ever apologize for being a 'bhakta' - a > true bhakta always prays to lord thus " let me be born again and > again so i can worship your lotus feet " - in fact , Kunti devi even > goes to this extent while praying to Lord Krishna ' Oh Lord! Give me > so much sorrow that i can never forget you " - Human tendency is to > forget lord in good times! > > Venkat-ji , God may even grant you 'mukthi' but to have ' bhakti' in > your heart, you need to take countless janmas! In this kali yuga , > nama japa is the easiest way! > > Lord Krishna says in chapter 11 , verse 54 > > bhaktya tv ananyaya sakya > aham evam-vidho 'rjuna > jnatum drastum ca tattvena > pravestum ca parantapa > > > My dear Arjuna, only by undivided devotional service can I be > understood as I am, standing before you, and can thus be seen > directly. Only in this way can you enter into the mysteries of My > understanding. > > Vasudevam Sarvam iti! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2007 Report Share Posted July 17, 2007 Venkatji: Oh! Oh! This humble 'one ' is not Sadaji - although , for a moment - i felt 'elated' being addressed like that ! Sadaji is one of the Moderators of this list - He is best recognized as the Venerable Gita 'teacher ' of Chinmaya mission of the Washington area - he is y learned and knowledgeble - though Sadaji's father is from the visishtadvaitin tradition, Sadaji himself is a staunch ' ADVAITIN who believes in the Jnana marga ! But in my heart , i know he is a great bhakta too after i heard his cd on 'bhakti ' that he sent me! Sadaji is endowed with 'buddhi yogam' from Birth due to KRISHNA PARAMATMA'S INFINITE MERCY ! SRIMAD BHAGAVAD GITA tesam satata-yuktanam bhajatam priti-purvakam dadami buddhi-yogam tam yena mam upayanti te ( CHP 10 , VERSE 10) To the ever-steadfast, worshipping Me with love, I give the " BUDDHI YOGA, " by which they come to Me. ( SWAMI CHINMAYAJI'S TRANLATION) yes! he IS BLESSED WITH THE BUDDHI YOGA - " " the right knowledge gained through meditation upon the Infinite Nature of the Self. " ( Venkataji , my gurudeva who is from the Ramakrishna paramahamsa lineage told me that 'Para bhakti and para jnani are one and the same' in the final analysis! and swami vivekanandaji also says that in his lectures on all four yogas! i am glad you know Tamizh ! that is a great language ! All the shaiva saints are from the Tamizh lineage! and Sanskrit is the deva bhasha -the purifying language ! btw , this piece is no masterpiece but came from the heart , not the head! best wishes advaitin , " J.venkatasubramanian " <apexpreci2000 wrote: > > Sadanandaji, > What a masterpiece of a reply ! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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