Roles of a teacher and Vedanta

[Guest guest]

--- Durga <durgaji108 wrote:

 

> advaitin , " Dennis Waite "

> <dwaite wrote:

 

> >

> > Secondly, it seems unarguable that the problem is

> self-ignorance and it

> > seems unarguable that the only solution is

> self-knowledge. Also I would invite any other

> member

> to join in and add their own understanding to this

> discussion.

>

> Pranams,

> Durga

 

PraNAms to both of you

 

I just changed the title of the discussion to reflect

the content.

Here is my understanding of the roles of the

scriptures and the teacher.

 

First let us address why Vedanta is pramaaNa or means

of knowledge.

 

One can gain the self-knowledge by questioning who am

I? and rejecting that which can be objectified as not

‘I’. This can be accomplished by self inquiry - as

some of the Direct-Method-Teachers teach.

 

Vedanta provides a pramaaNa to establish the self that

‘I am’ is the ‘Self in All’- aham braahmaasmi - tat

tavam asi - prajnaanam brahma - and ayam aatamaa

brahma - these are called mahaa vaakyas only because

they establish the identity of Self that ‘I am’ with

Brahman that is the infiniteness consciousness that

is Self that I am is the total self that pervades

everything. It provides a means to know that the

consciousness that ‘I am’ is the very substantive or

the material cause for the universe too. To establish

that, VedAnta is required. The unreality or mithyaava

of the universe is established by the fact that

Brahman alone is real and can be real, since it is

infiniteness and sat-chit-ananda swaruupam – negating

any suunyavaadas or nothingness or some of the

Buddhistic concepts. If one can gain that knowledge

by reading the books - that is OK. That means Vedanta

has worked, since it is the source for that knowledge

in those books. Original reference for those books is

not some individual experience but Vedanta as

pramaaNa.

 

Role of a teacher: Since it is subjective

investigation, and mind always is involved in

objective analysis, it is important to turn the mind

in wards to the very source because of which the very

mind works. Words - and there fore books and language

in general tries to communicate that which cannot be

communicated. The problem becomes even more difficult

as Durgaji rightly pointed out- how can ‘I’, the

little me is the source of the entire universe that I

see. The sublation of subject and object distinction

can work only if one understands Vedanta properly.

The teacher has to unfold this systematically and

clearly. This is one place where the role of the

teacher becomes very important.

 

Second point is the study of Vedanta books becomes a

problem, unless someone can explain properly. Only a

live teacher can address the questions that arise in

the minds of the disciple. The reason is apparent

contradictions even in Vedanta and contradictions

exist because the teaching involves - adhyaaropa

apavaada - systematic negation in steps as the mind of

the student evolves. The apparent contradictions also

exist since the truth is being pointed out from

different relative references. Unless one understands

the clearly, it will be very confusing for a student

who is on his own.

 

Third point is one is advised not to study vedanta by

himself since he can get thoroughly confused like

finding the directions in the forest

(VivekachuuDaamani says that). It is like doing a Ph.D

in any subject - without a guide, it is very

difficult, even though one can study and do that

research himself. Subjective inquiry is even more

subtle than objective analysis to acquire a Ph.D. If

for a silly Ph.D one requires a guide, what to talk of

the very subtle inquiry of the very subject that

cannot be objectified.

 

Fourth point, any body cannot be a teacher - since

what the teacher is teaching is not just his own

experience, however true that may be, but that which

is time-tested and well established knowledge in the

Vedas. Hence faith in the teacher and faith in the

interpretation of the scriptures by the teacher and

faith in the scriptures are all important for the

teaching to be successful.

 

Now this is the general requirements for the knowledge

of the self. As I have mentioned we do not take

exceptions as the rule.

 

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

[Guest guest]

Fourth point, any body cannot be a teacher - since what the teacher is

teaching is not just his own experience, however true that may be, but that

which is time-tested and well established knowledge in the Vedas.

 

praNAms Sri Sadananda prabhuji

Hare Krishna

 

That is really well said prabhuji...Yes, anybody cannot be a teacher & more

importantly, his own experiences & teachings sprout out of those

experiences cannot be a valid pramANa. vEda is the antya pramANa (ultimate

means of knowledge) in brahma jignAsa. Whatever shrOtrIya, brahmanishTa

guru teaches as *his* teachings should be in line with shruti pramANa & it

should not be based on his *own* experiences. Hence, in our tradition,

there is no hierarchical stages between *gurUpadEsha* and *shrutyupadEsha*

to treat gurUpadEsha as primary & shrutypadEsha as secondary or supportive

authority. It always goes hand-in-hand without any deviations.

 

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!'

bhaskar

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna, Namaskarams

 

 

 

 

 

I only wish to add to what Sri Sadananda has written but

what I experienced since he along with Durgaji, Mr.Dennis and

Smt.Dyanasaraswathy

have quoted enough references from scriptures.

 

 

Way back in 60’s when I first read the Bhagavat Geetha by Swami

Chithbavananda it gave me so much peace to my turbulent mind and further

reading it three or four times gave me a kind of serene feelings for quite a

number

of days. Slokas like “Yo mam pasyathi, Ananya chintayantho. and Antha kaleca

mameva etc got embedded in me all these days. But what I understood was very

little at that time to what I understood later in the 90’s after attending

Bhagavat

Geetha classes by Swami Paramarthananda.

 

 

It is not just the meaning of the slokas verbatim but the

depth in which it is analyzed by the teacher. By the time I had attended all the

classes covering the 18 chapters it was not just Geetha alone but I learnt the

Upanishads

and tattvabodha and other scriptures that were given in reference along with...

The constant reminding of the knowledge of self that has been taught by him in

all the classes is the reason a guru is required.

 

 

 

 

 

It is the “sravanam” hearing the voice of the guru that

impacts you and books cannot give that. After covering Upanishads like Katha,

Mandukya, & mundaka which

itself took some three to four years of

attending classes by weekends I resorted to hear the cassettes of all his

earlier

teachings of other Upanishads etc by

hearing two to three cassettes per day covering some seven to eight years of

his teachings

 

 

 

 

 

But an exception with regard to reading book is the home

study course by Swami Dayananda Sararaswthy because he “speaks” in his books

and it is so effective. Hence if one cannot access a Guru in his place he could

at least resort to cassettes recorded direct in the classes that are available.

..

 

 

 

BASKARAN.C.S

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hello Baskaran!

 

But an exception with regard to reading book is the

> home

> study course by Swami Dayananda Sararaswthy because

> he “speaks” in his books

> and it is so effective. Hence if one cannot access a

> Guru in his place he could

> at least resort to cassettes recorded direct in the

> classes that are available.

>

 

Yes! Then there would be reading--seeing--as well as

hearing. That would be a step further for one without

access to a teacher. Are the tapes in English? Thanks, Steve.

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

dear steev,

 

the casettes are availble in english. hera in chennai it is available with

satyaprakasa trust.also cassettes and vcd's of swami dayananda saraswathe most

be avalible with Arsha Vidya Gurukulam at sayiios borg C.A. USA.

you may get in touch with Sri Sadannda who can enlighten you further on this.

 

BASKARAN.C.S

 

 

 

Steve Stoker <otnac6

advaitin

Tuesday, 17 July, 2007 5:11:43 PM

Re: Roles of a teacher and Vedanta

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hello Baskaran!

 

 

 

But an exception with regard to reading book is the

 

> home

 

> study course by Swami Dayananda Sararaswthy because

 

> he “speaks” in his books

 

> and it is so effective. Hence if one cannot access a

 

> Guru in his place he could

 

> at least resort to cassettes recorded direct in the

 

> classes that are available.

 

>

 

 

 

Yes! Then there would be reading--seeing- -as well as

 

hearing. That would be a step further for one without

 

access to a teacher. Are the tapes in English? Thanks, Steve.

 

 

 

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Thanks!

 

 

 

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