Quoting for authority?-Arundati Darshana Nyaya ?

[Guest guest]

My dear Dennis-ji and my dear Durge!

 

You and Durgaji seem to agree only to disagree on what *vital* issue

and this is my perception - i may be wrong, of course on that count!

 

Dennis-ji , you state " additional knowlege' could also

come from a source other than a living guru. "

 

You know , Dennis-ji , more than anybody else , that this is what i

do - surf the web to dig information on all scriptural texts - what

started as an innocent hobby has now transformed into a lifelong

obseesion - my love affair with 'Truth'

 

IN this sense , you are absolutely right -laymen/laywomen like me

find 'e-groups' like these very 'EDUCATIONAL' as well

as 'entertaining' - This e-group has the collective wisdom of

the 'Best brains' of men/women from all the six continents ! In

this sense , many of us do benefit a lot from a satsangha such as

this - my first exposure to Swami Dayanand/sri ATMANANDA was through

this group only! Sunderji , of couse has been the 'invisible guide

who has directed all of us to many valuble sites on the web over the

years ! ?( that is not to limit his valuable role in any way) Thank

you one and all for all these treasures!

 

but let me ask you rhis , read the following passage from Katha

Upanishad ! Here , Yama is employing the 'Arundati Darshana Nyaya '

effectively to Nachiketa to teach the para -vidya ( higher

knowledge ) of Brahman !

 

pl read :

 

indriyebhyah para hyartha arthebhya & #347;ca param manah;

manasa & #347; ca para buddhir buddher atma para;

mahatah param avyaktam avyaktat purusah parah;

purusan na param kiñcit sa kastha sa para gatih.?( 1-3-10 AND 1-3-

11)

 

Simple translation

 

The sensory objects are subtler than the senses, and subtler than

the sensory objects is mind. But intellect is subtler than mind and

subtler than intellect is Mahat (the Hiranyagarbha).

 

The unmanifested (avyakta) is subtler than Mahat (Hiranyagarbha) and

subtler than the unmanifested is Purusha. There is nothing subtler

than Purusha. That is the end, that is the supreme goal.

 

now , Dennis-ji , i can read this hundred times ( all the

explanations by all the Swamijis - such as Krishnananda , Srila

Prabhupada , Swamijis from the Ramakrishna mutt etc etc ) but is the

meaning that crystal clear ? even if it is clear , has 'knowledge '

dawned on me ?

 

No , dear Dennis-ji , it is only through the grace of the *Living

Teacher* ( who has given you 'diksha' and adopted you as a disciple

when he was still present in his physical body) that a disciple can

grasp the finer nuances of such great upanishdic truths !)

Otherwise. one will be repeating 'parrot' like all these scriptures

without a 'real sense of understanding! BTW , EVEN AFTER THE SO

CALLED LIVING TEACHER QUITS HIS BODY , THE GURU HAS ALREADY DONE

SUCH A WONDERFUL WORK ON HIS DISCIPLE THAT THE SAID DISCIPLE IS

READY AND WELL PREPARED TO TEACH OTHERS WHAT HE HAS ALREADY LEARNED

AND GRASPED FROM HIS VENERABLE GURU! So, in reality , the Guru is

always 'alive' ( eternally present) in the heart and soul of his

sincere disciples!

 

 

Of course , there are always exceptions ! even today , when i sit in

front of Sri Ramana's photo, i feel that sri Ramana's infinite

prsence and feel he is 'there' all the way for devotees like me !' i

felt Sri Ranana's prsence when i was in the 'meditation' hall of

Ramanashram in Thiruvannamalai! This is the same feeling i have when

i see Shri Atmananda's picture ! What is the mystery ? It is

the 'simplicity' that is portrayed in the 'grandeur' of their true

Being! To come to think of it , they are not even wearing any ochre

robes or caste marks .... true renunciates without outward

symbolism ....

 

Faith is a weasel word! Shraddha is 'faith' backed by love and

devotion! Sri Ramakrishna was fond of narrating this story:

 

" One day as I was going through Panchavati I heard the fearful

croaking of some frog. I guessed one must have been caught by a

snake. When after a long time i was returning that way i heard the

same noise again . Peeping through the bushes I saw a water-snake

with a frog in its mouth. The water snake neither swallowed it nor

let the frog go, and there was no end to the agony of the frog. Then

I thought. " well if it had been the victim of a venemous snake, it

would have been silenced for ever after three croaks at the most.

Now the snake's suffering is almost equal to the frog's. "

 

so our beloved shri ramakrishna paramahamsa says , " if an

unenlightened man takes upon in his foolhardiness the responsibility

of saving another, there is no end to the misery of both. Neither is

the ego of the disciple nor his worldly ties will vanish. but, under

a competent guru, the 'egoism' perishes in three croaks. "

 

please join me in meditating on such a sadguru

 

Dhyaana moolam guror murtih;

Pooja moolam guror padam;

Mantra moolam guror vakyam;

Moksha moolam guror kripa

 

" The Guru's form should be meditated upon; the feet of the Guru

should be worshipped; his words are to be treated as a sacred Mantra;

his Grace ensures final liberation " .

 

so durgaji - you are very fortunate to have the guru's grace . so is

Anandaji and many others in this group ! when will THIS

CAGED 'BIRD' join this group of 'Swans' ?

 

love and regards

 

ps - i apologize fr this 'over enthusiastic' post - but this is a

subject 'Guru Kataksham' is close to my heart . A guru can be hard

as a 'diamond ' disciplining you one time and soft as a lotus petal

full of compassion and love ! how i miss my own guru!