Guest guest Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 hare krishna, namaskarams this morning i was listening to the above mentioned song by thyagaraja swamigal sung by semmangudi and i thought of sending it to the group.if thyagaraja at the highest level of bhakthi yoga asks the lord this way what about people like me be able to grasp the unknowable.only the lord's grace is what i can pray for. the song in telugu is followed with the meaning of the text. Pallavi: Dwaitamu Sukhama ? A – Dvaitamu Sukhamaa ? Anupallavi: Chaitanyamaa Vinu Sarva Saakshi Vistaaramugaanu Delpumu Naato Charanam: Gagana Pavana Tapana Bhuvanaa Dyavanilo Nagadharaaja Sivendraadi Suralalo Bhagavad Bhaktha Varaagresarulalo Baaga Raminche Tyaagaraajaarchita Meaning: (TK Govinda Rao's book): Which conduces to beatitude ( " sukhamaa " ), Dvaita or Advaita ? Dvaita which declares that Jivaatma is different from the Paramaatma or Advaita which asserts that they are identical ? As the Eternal Witness ( " saakshi " ) of cosmos ( " saarva " ), please enlighten me ( " maa vinu " ), Lord ( " Chaitanya " ). Throw light ( " delpumu " ) on this mystery ( " vistaaramugaanu " ) so that I comprehend ( " naato " ) it beyond any doubt. Supreme and Omnipresent, you are declared to be equally manifest ( " dyavanilo " ) in all the worlds ( " gagana, pavana, tapana, bhuvanaa " ) and to delight in sporting in the five elements, Trinity, the celestials and cream of devotees ( " bhagavad bhaktha varaagresarulalo " ). O worshipped ( " archita " ) by Tyagaraaja ! Do enlighten ( " raminche " ) me ! baskaran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 praNAms bhaskaran prabhuji Hare Krishna That supreme & omnipresent Lord would have answered Sri Thyagaraja's question by saying...dvaitam bhayaM & advaitam abhayaM, paramAnandaM & susukhaM... Has thyAgarAja anywhere else composed any kIrthana with regard to Lord's answer to his query?? Hari Hari Hari Bol!!! bhaskar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 - > Hare Krishna > > " That supreme & omnipresent Lord would have answered Sri Thyagaraja's > question by saying...dvaitam bhayaM & advaitam abhayaM, paramAnandaM & > susukhaM. " I beg to differ sri bhaskar prabhuji. neither dwaitam bhayam nor advaitam abhayam since both lead to ultimate- the lord.they are two concepts available for your quest.you realize you are one with the blessings of the lord in as many ways.i am a krishna bhaktha and an advaitin at heart.even if lord had answered the saint i dont think any of us would know. > > " Has thyAgarAja anywhere else composed any kIrthana with regard to Lord's > answer to his query?? " the saint reached the lord singing in praise of the lord rama. > baskaran > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 I beg to differ sri bhaskar prabhuji. neither dwaitam bhayam nor advaitam abhayam since both lead to ultimate- the lord.they are two concepts available for your quest.you realize you are one with the blessings of the lord in as many ways.i am a krishna bhaktha and an advaitin at heart.even if lord had answered the saint i dont think any of us would know. praNAms Sri baskaran prabhuji Hare Krishna I donot want to get into the debate here...anyway,the statement * both dvaita & advaita lead to a *common destination* is more of a catholic view of modern day vEdAntins... Hari Hari Hari Bol!!! bhaskar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 --- baskaran42 <baskaran42 wrote: > > Pallavi: > Dwaitamu Sukhama ? A – Dvaitamu Sukhamaa ? > Anupallavi: > Chaitanyamaa Vinu Sarva Saakshi > Vistaaramugaanu Delpumu Naato > Charanam: > Gagana Pavana Tapana Bhuvanaa Dyavanilo > Nagadharaaja Sivendraadi Suralalo > Bhagavad Bhaktha Varaagresarulalo > Baaga Raminche Tyaagaraajaarchita > > Meaning: (TK Govinda Rao's book): > > Which conduces to beatitude ( " sukhamaa " ), Dvaita or > Advaita ? Dvaita > which declares that Jivaatma is different from the > Paramaatma or > Advaita which asserts that they are identical ? PraNAms to all. Here is what I make out from the song. First, Bhakti does not give a choice of dvaita vs. advaita doctrine. What is normally called Bhakti is upaasana which is essentially an ingredient of karma yoga only - involving kaaya, vak and mana, body, speach, and mind. The actually choice is between karma or jnaana – lokesmin dvividhaa .. two paths have been provided by me depending on the qualification of the student. karma yoga and jnaana yoga. says Krishna - no bhakti yoga discussion here. The reason is Bhakti is not a separate yoga and is the central ingredient for both karma and Jnaana yoga. Karma yoga prepares one for jnaana yoga- there is no choices here, either. Karma including upaasana prepares the mind for jnaana yoga. The moksha or realization or freedom from limitation comes only by jnaana - 'bhramaatmaikatva bodhena mokshaH sidhyati na anyathaa' - only by the teaching oneness of oneself and the total self, one gains the liberation. Coming to Shree Tyagaraja keerthana - Which is more sukham - or enjoyable here - he asks -is it dvaitam or advaitam? . I would not interpret the choice here as between dvaita or advaita DOCTRINS, since the choice he is providing is between chaitanyamaa vinu sarva sakshii - So the choice is between objectless awareness that is - chaitanya swaruupam - or the second choice is as witnessing principle, sarva saakhsyatvam, witnessing the beauty and glory of the Universe or the beauty of the Lord and His manifestations - which one of the two provides the best enjoyment or entertainment. One can say that the choice is between aatma rati vs. aatma kreeDa. telupumu (t becomes d in sandhi)please explain - vistaaramugaanu in detail - addressing his Lord Rama who revels as the indweller among gaganaadi, sky, etc. Rama means - sarveshu ramati saH raamaH – one who revels in everywhere is Rama as the adhishhTanam or substantive– also sarvaaH ramanti teshu saH RamaH – in whom all revel is Rama since He is the ananda swarauupa. During the worship, Lord is seen external to oneself and reveling in the beauty and glory of the Lord one forgets himself as separate entity. In that there is beauty and happiness- even when one realizes all that is within oneself. Lord provides both ways of looking in the 6th Ch. 'sarva bhuutastham aatmaanam sarva bhuutaani ca aatmani' recognizing oneself in all and all in oneself - and also 'yo maam pasyati sarvatra and sarvanca mayi pasyati' one sees me (the Lord) everywhere and everything in Me' Both see the truth as the truth. Interestingly both slokas occur one after the other. He is asking which of the two gives more happiness - Choice is given to the Lord to decide not to dvaitins or advaitins. One can sit in the seat of meditation and revel in the beauty of oneness. Or one can see the world and see the beauty of the Lord in the multitudes as one sees His manifestations among the many. One is being in the swa swaruupam - chaitanya swaruupam or ones own nature and the other is the witnessing the all pervading beauty and glory of the Lord. Which is more enjoyable? I do not see that there is any discussion of jiivanmukta or advaita vs. dvaita in the keerthana, of course, as I see. Hari Om! Sadananda > As the Eternal Witness ( " saakshi " ) of cosmos > ( " saarva " ), please > enlighten me ( " maa vinu " ), Lord ( " Chaitanya " ). Throw > light ( " delpumu " ) > on this mystery ( " vistaaramugaanu " ) so that I > comprehend ( " naato " ) it > beyond any doubt. > > Supreme and Omnipresent, you are declared to be > equally manifest > ( " dyavanilo " ) in all the worlds ( " gagana, pavana, > tapana, bhuvanaa " ) > and to delight in sporting in the five elements, > Trinity, the > celestials and cream of devotees ( " bhagavad bhaktha > varaagresarulalo " ). O worshipped ( " archita " ) by > Tyagaraaja ! Do > enlighten ( " raminche " ) me ! > > baskaran > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 advaitin , " baskaran42 " <baskaran42 wrote: > Which conduces to beatitude ( " sukhamaa " ), Dvaita or Advaita ? > Dvaita which declares that Jivaatma is different from the > Paramaatma or Advaita which asserts that they are identical ? Pranams. " Sukham " is joy and is a positive aspect, while verily its opposite also exists which is " dukhaM " meaning misery. Only in duality-Dvaita, would it be possible to experience dualities and even tell some one else about it. In Advaita I don't know who else is there to even tell if there is " Sukham " or not! Lord, who is the fountain of all bliss- " Satchidananda " , " Paramananda " , seems to be blissful in Himself, by Himself and for Himself! May be, a true Dvaitin might know the difference and true Advaitin knows no difference. Hari OM -Srinivas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 Dear Srini i would encourage you to read the following link in Professorji's post number 36264 Re: Differences Between Dwaita,Visistadwaitha and Adwaita. http://www.geocities.com/profvk/gohitvip/74.html also pl read Paramacharya's article on Devotion is common to all faiths http://www.kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part1/chap5.htm Btw , dennisji i am happy to note that you are quoting Swami Paramarthananda (The one who is now enlightened but does not have the peace of mind etc. (themadhyamA adhikArI) must perform nididhyAsana to recover the situation. This will convert the emotional blockage into j~nAna phalam. This practice should take the form of repeatedly listening to, reading or writing scriptures or discussion or teaching. (Alternatively, Vedantic meditation, as per Patanjali yoga, may be practiced.)) WONDERFUL ADVICE! THIS IS WHAT CHAPTER 12 OF SRIMAD BHAGAVAD GITA SAYS ! CHAPTER 12 , VERSE 6 But those who worship Me, renouncing all actions in Me, regarding Me as the Supreme Goal, meditating on Me with single-minded devotion (YOGA) . . . YES! BHAKTI YOGA AND KARMA YOGA AND dhyana yoga - all in one capsule ! love and regards ( advaitin , " Srinivas Nagulapalli " <srini_nagul wrote: > ! > > May be, a true Dvaitin might know the difference and true Advaitin > knows no difference. > > Hari OM > -Srinivas > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2007 Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 advaitin , " dhyanasaraswati " <dhyanasaraswati wrote: > > Dear Srini > > i would encourage you to read the following link in Professorji's > post number 36264 Re: Differences Between Dwaita,Visistadwaitha and > Adwaita. > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/profvk/gohitvip/74.html > > also pl read Paramacharya's article on > > Devotion is common to all faiths > > http://www.kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part1/chap5.htm > > Btw , dennisji i am happy to note that you are quoting Swami > Paramarthananda > > (The one who is now enlightened but does not have the peace of mind > etc. (themadhyamA adhikArI) must perform nididhyAsana to recover the > situation. This will convert the emotional blockage into j~nAna > phalam. This practice should take the form of repeatedly listening > to, reading or writing scriptures or discussion or teaching. > (Alternatively, Vedantic meditation, as per > Patanjali yoga, may be practiced.)) > > WONDERFUL ADVICE! THIS IS WHAT CHAPTER 12 OF SRIMAD BHAGAVAD GITA > SAYS ! > > CHAPTER 12 , VERSE 6 > > But those who worship Me, renouncing all actions in Me, regarding > Me as the Supreme Goal, meditating on Me with single-minded devotion > (YOGA) . . . > > YES! BHAKTI YOGA AND KARMA YOGA AND dhyana yoga - all in one > capsule ! > > > love and regards Namaste, Dvaita first level of consciousness. Visishtadvaita second level of consciousness. Advaita third level of consciousness. Deep sleep etc. Fourth state indescribabe no appearance, no consciousness........Hu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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