Advaita and Kashmir saivism

[Guest guest]

Namaskaar

 

Would you please answer the following questions?

 

 

How should an Advaitin see the Kashmir school of Saivism?

 

Is Ramana Maharshi the represantative of Advaita Vedanta?

 

Is this the same Abhinavagupta of Trika darsana whom Sankara

bhagvatpada had debated and who in turn attacked him with his tantric

devices?

 

Tariq

[Guest guest]

On 26/08/07, ashfaqtariq <ashfaqtariq wrote:

> Namaskaar

>

> Would you please answer the following questions?

>

> How should an Advaitin see the Kashmir school of Saivism?

 

Kashmir Saivism is also a non-dual tradition like Advaita Vedanta, and

in that sense the two traditions are similar. However, there are some

differences in the way duality is typically explained. Within Advaita

Vedanta, the Manasollasa (a commentary by Sureshvaracharya on

Sankara's Dakshinamurti Stotram) is said to have views similar to

Kashmir Saivism.

 

>

> Is Ramana Maharshi the represantative of Advaita Vedanta?

 

Yes. Though Ramana Maharshi was not formally trained in Advaita

Vedanta, his works and teachings make extensive references to Advaita

Vedanta and are in conformity with it. Many of his works are

translations/explanations of Sankara Bhagavatpada's works

(Vivekachudamani, Atmabodha, etc). Also, by family background, he was

close to Advaita Vedanta.

Therefore, modern as well as traditional scholars generally consider

him an advaitin. The contemporary acharya-s of the formal advaitin

mutts also greatly respected him. The then acharya of the Puri mutt

(Bharati Krishna Tirtha of Vedic mathematics fame) is known to have

visited him and sat at his feet.

 

>

> Is this the same Abhinavagupta of Trika darsana whom Sankara

> bhagvatpada had debated and who in turn attacked him with his tantric

> devices?

 

No. Sankara Bhagavatpada and Abhinavagupta were not contemporaries.

Sankara's debate was with Navagupta, a scholar from Kamarupa (Assam).

As an aside, tantric practices are of a wide variety and many of them

are well established within Advaita also. Sankara himself is

traditionally regarded a tantric adept.

 

Ramesh

[Guest guest]

Dear Tariqji,

 

" How should an Advaitin see the Kashmir school of Saivism? "

 

" Kashmir Saivism " is a bit of a misnomer because there are/were a lot

of Saiva sects that are Kashmiri in origin but do not fit into what is

called " Kashmir Saivism. " Kashmir Saivism is normally the name given

to Abhinavagupta's synthesis of four non-dual Saiva Tantric (in the

broad sense of the word) systems (Kula, Krama, Pratyabhijna and

Spanda). All these systems are older than Abhinavagupta but they are

put in a unified framework by Abhinavagupta. Of these systems, the

" Kula " system is not native to Kasmir but began in Kamarupa (Assam)

and is connected with Matsyendranath. All these systems have their own

set of practices and different philosophical expositions on various

topics, but they are believed to not contradict each other in any

major way. The system as a whole is often incapsulated by the terms

Trika (though sometimes this applies only to Kula) or Isvaradvaya.

 

I suggest reading Jaideva Singh's introduction to the

Pratyabhijnahrdayam (by Ksemaraja, Abhinavagupta's disciple) where he

gives in some detail the differences between Isvaradvayavada and

Advaita Vedanta. I do not know of any critiques of Isvaradvayavada by

Advaita Vedantins. Shankara does criticize other teachers who teach

jiva-brahma-aikya while maintaining that the world is real (such as

Bhartrprapanca), but I am not sure how much of it applies to

Isvaradvayavada because of some unusual features of this system.

 

Interestingly, they accept ajata vada. In his commentary on the first

verse of the Spanda Karika, Ksemaraja says: " In reality, nothing

arises, and nothing subsides. It is only the divine Spandasakti which,

though free of succession, appears in different aspects as if flashing

in view and as if subsiding. " So they assert ajata vada while

rejecting the unreality of the world and to explain this they have a

rather sophisticated ontology of time. Such arguments are not used by

Shankara's purvapakshas.

 

Regards,

 

Rishi.

[Guest guest]

On 26/08/07, risrajlam <rishi.lamichhane wrote:

>

> Interestingly, they accept ajata vada. In his commentary on the first

> verse of the Spanda Karika, Ksemaraja says: " In reality, nothing

> arises, and nothing subsides. It is only the divine Spandasakti which,

> though free of succession, appears in different aspects as if flashing

> in view and as if subsiding. " So they assert ajata vada while

> rejecting the unreality of the world and to explain this they have a

> rather sophisticated ontology of time.

>

 

Rishi-ji, could you briefly explain the ontology of time as per Kshemaraja?

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " Ramesh Krishnamurthy "

<rkmurthy wrote:

Sankara himself is

> traditionally regarded a tantric adept.

>

> Ramesh

>

 

Dear Ramesh-ji,

 

He seems to be adept in almost everything! There is a commentary on

Yoga Sutras attributed to him as well. I was searching for this

book for quite some time and finally got it. I am giving the

relavant info. for the benifit of the interested members.

 

Shankara on the Yoga Sutras by Trevor Leggett Published by Motilal

Banarasidas.

 

One can buy the book online through their website-http://www.mlbd.com

 

The best way to find out the book in the site is to serach by

author " Trevor Leggett " The book will appear as the 2nd item in the

list.

 

I was surpised to see Sri abhinava vidyAthirta swamigal's name in

the book. The trasnlator says in the book that:

 

" The late shankarAchArya of shringEri, H.H. abhinava vidyAthirtha,

showed much interest in this vivaraNa and encouraged the present

translator to tackle this difficult text, which (he said) might be

of great importance in the study of shankara. "

 

The translator also acknowledges the help he got from Sri Hari

Prasad Shastri in the book.

 

Hope it will be of some interest to some.

 

Yours in Sri Ramakrishna,

 

Br. Vinayaka.

[Guest guest]

On 26/08/07, Vinayaka <vinayaka_ns wrote:

> He seems to be adept in almost everything! There is a commentary on

> Yoga Sutras attributed to him as well. I was searching for this

> book for quite some time and finally got it. I am giving the

> relavant info. for the benifit of the interested members.

>

> Shankara on the Yoga Sutras by Trevor Leggett Published by Motilal

> Banarasidas.

 

Yes, this is the yogasUtrabhAShyavivaraNa, a sub-commentary on Vyasa's

commentary on the Yoga sutra-s. I believe the manuscript was

discovered only in the early 20th century somewhere in southern India.

So this is not a traditionally well known text.

 

> I was surpised to see Sri abhinava vidyAthirta swamigal's name in

> the book. The trasnlator says in the book that:

>

> " The late shankarAchArya of shringEri, H.H. abhinava vidyAthirtha,

> showed much interest in this vivaraNa and encouraged the present

> translator to tackle this difficult text, which (he said) might be

> of great importance in the study of shankara. "

>

 

Yes, the Sringeri acharya-s are known to have showed considerable

interest in the book. I have not read it but I am told that it is very

much in line with Advaita Vedanta. Of course, authorship issues can be

debated ad nauseam.

 

On Sankara's tantric works, the biggest is probably the prapancasAra,

which is an encyclopedic work similar to other well known tantra-s

such as SAradA-tilakam, mantra-mahodadhi, tantra-samuccaya, etc.

Traditionally, the prapancasAra is regarded as having been revealed by

Vishnu to Brahma and compiled by Sri Sankara.

 

Of course, the saundaryalaharI is very well known.

 

For more insights on yogic & tantric practices within Advaita Vedanta,

please read the book " Yoga Enlightenment & Perfection " that describes

the spiritual disciplines followed by Sri abhinava vidyAtIrtha. It

gives a very different picture of Advaita as compared to what we

usually discuss on this list. At the very least, people will stop

dismissing mantra-s and samadhi

 

Note that both the Sringeri & Kanchi mutts are traditional centres for

shrikula tantra.

 

Ramesh