Gita Satsangh Chapter 11 Verses 3 to 4

[Guest guest]

Namaste dear all:

 

As I have explained before, I will try my level best to follow this

format for posting. This initial post will be followed by additional

comments from me (when needed) and by members at all levels. Satsangh

is the greatest opportunity for a sadhaka (seeker) to raise questions

and share his/her personal experiences with all. Only by sharing and

caring, we can get the 'real' insights of Gita.

 

Harih Om!

 

Ram Chandran

 

Note: Please forgive me for all typos (which are very likely) and

feel free to send the corrections to the list. thanks in advance for

your participation, corrections and additions.

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Gita Satsangh Chapter 11 Verses 3 to 4

 

Evametadyathaattha twamaatmaanam parameshwara;

Drashtumicchaami te roopamaishwaram purushottama. Verse 3

 

Sankara Bhashya (Swami Gambiranda's translation)

 

3. O supreme Lord, so it is, as You speak about Yourself. O supreme

Person, I wish to see the divine form of Yours.

 

Parama-isvara, O supreme Lord

evam, so

etat, it is-not otherwise

yatha, as

tvam, You

attha, speak

atmanam, about Yourself. Still, purusottama, O supreme Person

iccahmi, I wish

drastum, to see

the aisvaram, divine

rupam, form

te, of Yours, of Visnu, endowed with Knowledge, Sovereignty, Power,

Strength, Valour and Formidability.

 

Swami Chinmayanda's Commentary:

 

THE DEMAND OF THE DISCIPLE IS DESCRIBED IN THE FOLLOWING VERSE:

 

3. (Now) O Supreme Lord! As you have thus described Yourself, I wish

to see (actually) Your Form Divine, O PURUSHOTTAMA.

Indicating by a familiar idiom in Sanskrit, " So be it " (evam-etat),

Arjuna accepts the technical thesis that has been declared by the

Lord. Intellectually, it has been satisfactorily proved that the Lord

is immanent in all names and forms. Still the intellect awaits the

baptism of a demonstration. Therefore Arjuna says, " I DESIRE TO SEE

YOUR ISHWARA-FORM. " He is Ishwara who in Himself, expresses

omnipotence, infinite wisdom, strength, virtue and splendor; these

are the six qualities that are described in our shastras as forming

the characteristic features of the God-principle.

This was the occasion on which Krishna decided to show to Arjuna that

the LORD IS NOT ONLY IMMANENT in all forms, but He is also the

vehicle or receptacle in which all names and forms have their

existence and play --- HE IS ALSO TRANSCENDENT.

Though, with the enthusiasm of a fanatic believer in intellectualism,

Arjuna demands a demonstration, he immediately realizes that his

audacity has, perhaps, crossed the frontiers of decency.

 

HE IS TRYING TO SMOOTHEN HIS WORDS OUT IN THE FOLLOWING STANZA:

 

Manyase yadi tacchakyam mayaa drashtumiti prabho;

Yogeshwara tato me twam darshayaatmaanamavyayam. Verse 4

 

4. O Lord, if You think that it is possible to be seen by me, then, O

Lord of Yoga, You show me Your eternal Self.

 

Prabho, O Lord, Master

yadi, if

manyase, You think

iti, that

tat sakyam, it is possible

drastum, to be see

maya, by me, by Arjuna

tatah, then, since I am very eager to see, therefore

yogeswara, O Lord of Yoga, of yogis-Yoga stands for yogis

their Lord is yogeswara

tvam, You

darsaya, show

me, me, for my sake

atmanam avyayam, Your eternal Self.

 

Swami Chinmayanda's Commentary:

 

4. If you, O Lord, think it possible for me to see It, do You please,

then, O Lord of YOGAS, show me Your Imperishable Self-form.

The demand in the previous stanza has been repeated here, with a

dignified humility and pure reverence. In our ordinary life, in all

our respectful appeals and humble petitions we use such phrases

as: " If I may be permitted to say, " " I shall be much obliged if, " " I

have the honor to submit, " " If I may have the leave to say so, " etc.

The Pandava Prince, as a result of a second thought, as it were,

smoothens his solider-like abrupt language used in the previous

stanza and says that the Lord's IMMUTABLE Universal Form may be shown

to him --- " IF YOU THINK I AM CAPABLE OF SEEING IT. "

 

The modesty and reverence shown here are not expressions of a faked

emotion for cheap fulfillment of desires. This is evident from the

term he is using in addressing the Lord in the verse. In the first

line we find Krishna being addressed as " O Lord " (Prabho), and in the

following line He is again addressed as " the Lord of Yogas "

(Yogeshwara). These clearly indicate that Arjuna has come to feel

that Krishna is not a mere mortal teacher, capable of giving only

some intellectual ventilations and spiritual discourses, but that " He

is Himself Divine and a Master-of-Yoga, " and therefore, he is capable

of fulfilling the request, if the " teacher " in Krishna is satisfied

that the " student " in Arjuna will be benefited by such a

demonstration.

 

THE HUMBLE REQUEST OF AN EARNEST STUDENT NEVER FALLS ON DEAF EARS, IF

IT IS MADE TO A TRUE TEACHER:

[Guest guest]

Pranams

 

My thanks to Ram-ji for initiating this e-satsang on a beautiful and

important chapter in the Gita. Our beloved Bhaskar-ji has also timed

some very interesting posers to lend more context to this chapter.

 

I shall pen some thoughts based on my understanding.

Chapter 11 comes towards the end of the second section of the Guta

which primarily deals with bhakti. Bhakti can be considered at three

levels - per Swami Paramarthananda-ji's terminology - ekarUpa

bhakti, anekarUpabhakti and arUpabhakti.

 

Initially bhakti is typically eka-rUpa bhakti - devotion to a

personal

God, or ishtadevata. And this level of bhakti is extremely important

as well.

 

But one progresses to the next level of bhakti which is anekarupa

bhakti. Not only to I see " Ishwara " in the particular form of my

ishta-devata such as Lord Ganesha, Lord Vishnu etc, I now am able to

see Ishwara in and through everything in creation. Everything that I

see, I perceive, I feel, I observe is sacred, is sacrosanct, is

pious,

is indeed Divine, not because it has a " made by God " tag but because

it verily IS God indeed.

This is also at two levels - one level is relatively easier and the

other extremely difficult.

 

The first level is to able to appreciate the Divinity in everything

that is wonderful, appreciate his Effulgence in everything that is

splendor, in every grandeur spectacle, - and in the previous Chapter

when asked by Arjuna in which way/form should i meditate on You

(10.17), Lord Krishna even helped Arjuna visualize this by giving

him an exhaustive list of wonders (who are not His " creations "

but " He Himself " ) such as I AM the Ocean " sarasam asmi sagarah " and

I AM the Himalayas " sthavaranam himalayah "

 

At the end of this the Benevolent Lord leads Arjuna as it were to

the next level, and says with a twinkle - vistabhyaham idam krtsnam

ekamsena sthito jagat - just a fragment of mine IS all this.

Naturally the child in Arjuna wonders - " hey if this is just a

fragment - what must be the Total - the VirAt -! " and predictably -

without being in the least bit prepared for what is to come - pops

the question - O Lord, now please let me see you as the All "

 

And the Benevolent Lord then proceeds to demonstrate to Arjuna his

Cosmic Form.

As we shall see Arjuna's eyes are again drawn in that vision to what

is wonderful, and splendoros, and grand, but soon after - he cannot

help but come face-to-face with the side of the Total which is All-

devouring - lelihyase grasamanah samantal lokan samagran vadanair

jvaladbhih - where his dear ones are being unmistakably devoured.

Completely shaken by this Arjuna himself asks the Lord to withdraw

this vision immmediately - it is too disconcerting.

 

And it is this level of anekarupa bhakti that is very difficult to

achieve and maintain - to see the Lord not just in the good things,

but in the bad. It is easy to look at the Himalayas and see the

Divine Leela at work - it is hard to see a 6-month old dying from a

hole in the heart and still see the Divine, even if that child be

one's own. It requires tremendous maturity, a magnanimous,

intellectual and stoic viewpoint which is able to appreciate birth

and death, pain and pleasure, all as in reality being of the nature

of the Divine only, being both sides of the same coin, being as

accepting of one as of the other. And for this our own raga-dveshas

need to be annihilated in toto.

 

How can this happen? Only when we move to the next stage of bhakti -

which is aroopa bhakti- in other words - jnanam - i understand the

truth about me - who I am and more importantly who i am not - and in

this understanding, this notional ego, who entertains these raga-

dveshas, gets sublimated - then instead of " i " seeing " The Lord " in

each and everything - I realize that there really is no " i " which is

separate from the totality - then - and only then - is the vision so

complete so as to say - mayyeva sakalam jaatam - From Me alone does

all this manifest, unto Me alone will everything resolve - I am

that, that I am,,, I am,,, I am. This too Krishna will get to - in

the most important 13th and subsequent chapters - 14 and

15. " sarvasya caham hrdi sannivisto " and " brahmano hi pratisthaham

amrtasyavyayasya ca " and " yo mam evam asammudho janati purusottamam

sa sarva-vid bhajati mam sarva-bhavena bharata

 

More details of this aneka-roopa bhakti will unfold as this satsang

proceeds under the leadership of Ram-ji.

 

With regards to dear Bhaskar-ji's poser - why can't we see Krishna -

I personally think the answer is simply - " Because I dont want to "

There was some comment made about not being able to see a " dead "

person, and with due respect - I will disagree. A jiva and avatara

differ in one crucial aspect - the avatara is Ishwara with complete

control of his Maya-shakti - not a jiva who is a byproduct as it

were of the same. If avatara can bless us as humanity with a

particular form like Krishna Kanhaiya then certainly He has full

freedom to re-appear as that form to bless a Meera-bai, a Surdas, a

Namdeo, as he has consistently and repeatedly shown.

The question is - do we really want to see Lord Krishna?

 

The plain answer for most of us is simply " no " . I am more concerned

about " my " family, " my " work, " my " property, " my " bank balance, " my "

future, " my " health, " my " children's future, " my " in-laws, " my "

taxes, " my " boss, " my " pay, - who has the time to stand and stare -

let alone want to see the Lord!!!

 

If i wanted to see Lord Krishna, if I truly in my heart of hearts

had that and ONLY that aim, that burning desire, that sense of

wonton longing, then i daresay even Lord Krishna Himself does not

have the power to deny me His own vision - it is ever there for the

asking...the asking is what is easier said than done....

 

My humble pranams

Hari OM

Shri Gurubhyo namah

Shyam

[Guest guest]

Namaste Dr. Shyam-ji.

 

Thanks for detailing the various types of bhakti.

 

A person has ekarupabhakti with an ishtadevata. This bhakti has

resulted from his helplessness in this world and he is in it on the

advice of other reverred persons. He remains devoutly devoted to the

ishtadevata for a long time. Will he then spontaneously progress into

the higher levels of bhakti without any external input of advaitic

knowledge, say through reading, listening and contemplation?

 

Your kind clarirication, I am sure, will be helpful to all of us here.

 

PraNAms.

 

Madathil Nair

[Guest guest]

hare krishna, namaskarams

 

a true bhaktha with absolute fatih in the lord reaches the lord by

lords'grace. There are several bhakthas/saints who have reached the

lord without any formal qualified knowledge for example shri

Nanadanar. one can read about such saints in Maha bhaktha vijayam.when

you walk one step towards the lord he walks ten towards you to

bless,what to say about such true devotees of the lord. Was the

external input/advaitic kowledgs required for them?

 

baskaran

 

 

 

 

advaitin , " Madathil Rajendran Nair "

<madathilnair wrote:

Will he then spontaneously progress into

> the higher levels of bhakti without any external input of advaitic

> knowledge, say through reading, listening and contemplation?

>

[Guest guest]

Namaste Madathil-Ji:

 

Here is my thought on this.

 

I had written something few years ago in Marathi may help you

understand the " iShjThadevataa " and it's significance.

 

j~naana hecii guru, ba.ndhu, pitaa aaNi culataa |

tiica ase aamaci eShThadevataa ||

trikaala yadunatha raxitaa |

anaayase ||

 

Meaning - Knowledge is the real guru, brother, father and uncle (all

these relationships help you become knowledgeable). That knowledge is

my " iShThadevaa " (Especially when it comes to upaasanaa). It is the

knowledge (in the form of iShThadevataa) that has protected me (the

Yadunath, the upaasaka) in the past, present and will continue to do

so in the future (all three periods), without any special effort.

 

When it comes to ekaruupa bhakti (also known as ananya bhaktai). If

we take an illustration of knowledge from a book.

 

What ever the knowledge written in the book belongs to the author (a

living entity at some point) in the form of encapsulated words in a

non-living thing (the Book). When one understands the knowledge from

the written text then the reader becomes " ONE " with the author's

knowledge.

 

That is why Acharys says in daxiNaamuurti stotra

 

yaH saaxaatkurute prabodhasamaye svaatmaanamevaadvayaM

 

If one does not become ONE then there will be no reckoning.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regards,

 

Dr. Yadu

 

advaitin , " Madathil Rajendran Nair "

<madathilnair wrote:

>

> Namaste Dr. Shyam-ji.

>

> Thanks for detailing the various types of bhakti.

>

> A person has ekarupabhakti with an ishtadevata. This bhakti has

> resulted from his helplessness in this world and he is in it on the

> advice of other reverred persons. He remains devoutly devoted to

the

> ishtadevata for a long time. Will he then spontaneously progress

into

> the higher levels of bhakti without any external input of advaitic

> knowledge, say through reading, listening and contemplation?

>

> Your kind clarirication, I am sure, will be helpful to all of us

here.

>

> PraNAms.

>

> Madathil Nair

>