What is realization

[Guest guest]

PraNams to all

 

I am putting two mails together since I see the

central question about waking from a waking state

which is lucid dream from the waker’s point.

 

Realization of my true nature is not ‘waking up’ – as

in waking up from a dream. If it is so then it is

just a movement of states. ‘Chaturtham manyante’ –

when the scripture says it is only called a ‘fourth

state’ to differentiate from the normal undersanding

of the three states that we are familiar. Suutra 7 of

MAnDUkya nails this down completely and effectively.

Each word is precious gem in that mantra. –‘ na

ubhayataH prajnaH ‘ – includes both lucid dreams as

well as the snooze conditions – where you are not

fully awake or fully asleep.

 

Let us address clearly what is realization for the

record. It is realization of my true nature that is

independent of any state. It exists in all states, but

as substantive of all the states, but does not change

with the changing things in a state or with the

changing of states either.

 

What is needed in realization is only shifting my

attention from identification of my self with the

changing things to the changeless entity that is there

in all states. The viveka or discriminative analysis

is only to achieve this shift from changing things

(anitya) to the substantive that is changeless

(nitya). This viveka is lacking in the deep sleep

state hence no realization can be possible in the deep

sleep state or in a state where the mind is absent if

that is what involves in nirvikalpa state. A

mindless-ignorant state is not a state of realization.

In the dream state the intellect is also at its low

web, and therefore subtle intellect needed to shift my

attention from anitya to nitya is not in its full

potential. In principle no realization can occur in

the dream state either.

 

“ I am’ is present all the time and in all states and

in all circumstances. ‘I am this’ – keeps changing

with the changing ‘this’. I am not ‘this’ is the

essence of teaching of neti, neti. – Our ego centered

in the past or in future imaginary (lucid or

otherwise) or past events is not fully available in

the present where ‘I am’ exists. Concentrated effort

is required to disciple the mind to move from the past

and future to the present that really counts. Past was

the present and future will be present and present

alone is real and is ‘eternal’ in the sense it is

beyond the concept of time and hence concept space

too. Hence the scripture says ‘ihaiva’ – right now

and right here – where the realization is.

 

The discussion of avastaatrayam or three states of

consciousness – all that is – only to understand that

‘I am’ forms the substratum that pervades all the

three states and therefore ‘I am’ is beyond the three

states, in the sense that I do not change with the

states. For me to understand ‘who I am’ – in and

through the changing states requires a very subtle

mind – which does not hold on to the changing things

in each state.

 

The discussion of the dream world helps to identify

few important things: - 1. To recognize that the dream

world that appears to be real to the subject in the

dream is not really real and there is no material

validity for all the things that are seen. The

concept of mityaa to the world can easily be

understood with the analogy of the dream. 2. There is

truly only one subject – seer, although there appears

to many subjects in the dream. 3. Dream provides a

concrete example that upaadaana kaarana or material

cause and the intelligent cause, nimitta kaarana can

be one and the same unlike the creation of a pot. 4.

For the purpose of meditation, to see oneness that is

pervading the multitude of plurality, dream world of

plurality and the pervading one ness of the waking

mind can help for those who are tuned.

 

To whose mind the waking world as a dream corresponds

to. MAnDUkya addressed this aspect too. Just as a

jiiva goes into laya – the whole universe goes into

total mind as pralaya – the mind of the Iswara. But

Iswara is not different from ‘I am’

existence-consciousness since He is sat-chit

swaruupam. Thus sat-chit swaruupam ‘as though’

identified with the total mind is called Iswara and

identified with the individual mind is called ‘jiiva’.

This is illustrated by one stroke in the parallelism

presented in the MAnDUkya while discussing the waking

and dream world. By saying one said – ekonavishati

mukhaH – the nineteen gateways – comes down to jiiva

level and by saying ‘saptaangaH’ – shift to macrocosm

or Iswara level. Thus ‘I am’ is independent of micro

or macro – jiiva or Iswara – or independent of any

states – that is pure and auspicious, Shivam,

non-dual, advaitam, that which pervades all the

worlds of plurality, ekaatma praytaya saaram, where

all the worlds dissolve into, prapanchopashamam – that

is the self that I am has to be recognized.

 

Hence the purpose of the discussion of the three

states of consciousness is only to understand the

substratum that is common to all the three states,

including any other lucid states that one can imagine.

 

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

 

 

--- Madathil Rajendran Nair <madathilnair >

In conclusion, therefore, from my own personal

> experience of lucid

> dreams, I would say that the realization that " I am

> dreaming " within

> a dream may have nothing to do with our `actual

> waking situation',

> i.e. where we are sleeping. We have the realization

> of our dreaming

> only because dreams are almost an exact replica of

> waking with its

> own elements of sleep, dreams and waking within it

> and can,

> therefore, logically generate a feeling of " I am

> dreaming " with

> reference to `wakings' imagined in the dream which

> have nothing to do

> with our `actual waking reality'.

 

--- baskaran42 <baskaran42 wrote:

 

> In jagrath avastha with a world of millions of jeeva

> rasis active so

> much in every way, Who wakes up from this jagrath

> dream? Ishwara?

> Since you are part of the dream, the dreamt cannot

> wake up; it can be

> resolved only in pralayam. One may close his eyes or

> shut his ears etc

> yet the jagrat world cannot be dismissed as unreal.

> How do you dismiss

> this world as mithya/unreal? Can you dismiss the

> beautiful mountains,

> dancing rivers, singing birds and thousands of

> planes, trains, Cars

> and whole of living beings criss crossing in the

> world. Can you

> dismiss the sun, the moon, and stars etc, all god's

> creation that is

> an order of Ishwara's dharma?

[Guest guest]

Namaste Shri Sada-ji.

 

This refers to your very long post 37241 which is purported in part

to answer an earlier mail of mine.

 

May I humbly point out that the mail of mine excerpted by you at the

end of yours has nothing to do with Realizaton per se or the Mandukya

Upanishad/Karika on which yours dwells in detail? I was only

answering a query by Mouna-ji / Dennis-ji about what is currently

known as lucid dreaming and only relying on my personal experience

and observations.

 

I have a general idea of avastAtraya prakriya imbibed through reading

and listening to several Vedanta teachers. I don't, however, think

or in fact ever thought that I do understand Mandukya / Karika

fully. As such, I would never ever venture a foray into it on my own.

 

PraNAms.

 

Madathil Nair