Guest guest Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 Dear Sadanandaji, You have said:-- " The point is inferential bliss is different from experiential bliss. That is an inference we can reach! " By the above I suppose you mean that the statement on waking up that one slept happily and knew nothing is an inference, like the inference that you must have eaten the laddu. Madhusudana Sarasvati says specifically in Siddhantabindu that this is a recollection of actual experience of happiness and ignorance in sleep and not an inference. Inference is one of the six pramanas accepted by Advaita. It requires certain conditions to become applicable. The following extract from Siddhantabindu makes this clear:---- The person waking up from sleep recollects that he slept happily and did not know anything. Recollection is not possible of a thing not previously experienced. Even though the recollection is not accompanied by the 'that-ness' (the details of the experience such as the time, place, nature, etc.,) it cannot be said that it is not a recollection, since the absence of such details is attributable to the fact that the experience (of happiness and ignorance in deep sleep) was not caused by a vritti of the mind (but by a vritti of avidya). Moreover, there is no invariable rule that in every recollection such details must be present. Besides, in the waking state, experience in the form 'I slept' is not possible (as a perception). Inference is also not possible because both the reason (middle term) and the locus (minor term) are absent. The ego-sense is experienced only at the time of waking up. Since the mind is dormant in deep sleep the ego-sense (which is a vritti of the mind) is not experienced then and so there can be no recollection of any such ego-sense (after waking up). The above passage means that happiness and ignorance were actually experienced in sleep. S.N.Sastri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2007 Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 advaitin , " S.N. Sastri " <sn.sastri wrote: > The person waking up from sleep recollects that he slept happily and did > not know anything. Recollection is not possible of a thing not previously > experienced. Even though the recollection is not accompanied by the > 'that-ness' (the details of the experience such as the time, place, nature, > etc.,) it cannot be said that it is not a recollection, since the absence of > such details is attributable to the fact that the experience (of happiness > and ignorance in deep sleep) was not caused by a vritti of the mind (but by > a vritti of avidya). Dear Sri Shastri-ji, Here Sri MS is telling that happiness/ignorance experienced during the deep sleep is caused by avidya vritti. What is the difference between avidya vritti and vritti of the mind? Can there be avidya vritti independent of the mind? Kindly clarify. Yours in Sri Ramakrishna, Br. Vinayaka. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2007 Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 H.N.Sreenivasa Murthy Pranams to all. Respected Sirs, When the states themselves are negated and are thrown overboard, what is the use of discussing about the various individual items which also get thrown overboard along with the states? With warm and respectful regards, Sreenivasa Murthy. advaitin , " Vinayaka " <vinayaka_ns wrote: > > advaitin , " S.N. Sastri " <sn.sastri@> wrote: > > > The person waking up from sleep recollects that he slept happily > and did > > not know anything. Recollection is not possible of a thing not > previously > > experienced. Even though the recollection is not accompanied by the > > 'that-ness' (the details of the experience such as the time, > place, nature, > > etc.,) it cannot be said that it is not a recollection, since the > absence of > > such details is attributable to the fact that the experience (of > happiness > > and ignorance in deep sleep) was not caused by a vritti of the > mind (but by > > a vritti of avidya). > > Dear Sri Shastri-ji, > > Here Sri MS is telling that happiness/ignorance experienced during > the deep sleep is caused by avidya vritti. What is the difference > between avidya vritti and vritti of the mind? Can there be avidya > vritti independent of the mind? Kindly clarify. > > Yours in Sri Ramakrishna, > > Br. Vinayaka. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2007 Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 Dear Br. Vinayaka, In deep sleep the mind does not function, but it remains in its causal or seed form which is avidya. So in the place of mano-vritti there is avidya-vritii which experiences happiness and ignorance during sleep. S.N.Sastri On 9/26/07, Vinayaka <vinayaka_ns wrote: > > advaitin <advaitin%40>, " S.N. > Sastri " <sn.sastri wrote: > > > The person waking up from sleep recollects that he slept happily > and did > > not know anything. Recollection is not possible of a thing not > previously > > experienced. Even though the recollection is not accompanied by the > > 'that-ness' (the details of the experience such as the time, > place, nature, > > etc.,) it cannot be said that it is not a recollection, since the > absence of > > such details is attributable to the fact that the experience (of > happiness > > and ignorance in deep sleep) was not caused by a vritti of the > mind (but by > > a vritti of avidya). > > Dear Sri Shastri-ji, > > Here Sri MS is telling that happiness/ignorance experienced during > the deep sleep is caused by avidya vritti. What is the difference > between avidya vritti and vritti of the mind? Can there be avidya > vritti independent of the mind? Kindly clarify. > > Yours in Sri Ramakrishna, > > Br. Vinayaka. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2007 Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 Namaste Respected Shri Sastri-ji, I don't normally bother about such details. But, this is getting really complicated. Your clarification to Br. Vinayaka raises some questions: 1. Mind is a flow of thoughts, we are told. A mind that has stopped functioning would mean an absence of thoughts - a void. Right? 2. Avidya is a something. How can a something take the place of a void? Besides, we need the mind to know that there is avidya. 3. How does the knowledge of " happiness and ignorance " in sleep transfer from avidyA to the void when the latter becomes functional as mind on waking? Secondly, how can a knowledge occur in avidyA? 4. Happiness in waking is experienced due to the mind being behind enjoyment. Is it in a similar manner that avidyA-vritti functions in sleep? 5. Ignorance means " I did not know anything " . How can that co-exist with " happiness " in sleep where " happiness " is a something known? Sorry for the bother. I am afraid we are getting really mired. PraNAms and best regards. Madathil Nair ______________ advaitin , " S.N. Sastri " <sn.sastri wrote: > > Dear Br. Vinayaka, > In deep sleep the mind does not function, but it remains in its causal or > seed form which is avidya. So in the place of mano-vritti there is > avidya-vritii which experiences happiness and ignorance during sleep. > S.N.Sastri > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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