The three states

[Guest guest]

Dear Shri Nair-ji,

 

You have asked—

 

1. Mind is a flow of thoughts, we are told. A mind that has stopped

functioning would mean an absence of thoughts - a void. Right?

2. Avidya is a something. How can a something take the place of a

void? Besides, we need the mind to know that there is avidya.

My answer---

 

You say that the mind is a flow of thoughts. When we are discussing Vedanta

we have to go by the definition of terms and concepts in Vedanta as given by

authoritative works on vedanta and not by definitions given by others for

other purposes. The text considered by scholars as authoritative in the

matter of definition of Vedantic terms is 'Vedanta paribhaasha' by

Dharmaraja Adhvarindra. It says that the mind is a substance (dravya).

Desire, resolve, doubt, faith, knowledge, etc., are vrittis or modifications

of the mind. It is the mind which receives the reflection of consciousness

and therefore appears as sentient. So how can it be a mere flow of thoughts?

The mind is dormant during deep sleep. It being a substance and not just a

flow of thoughts, it cannot become a void during sleep. The settled view in

Vedanta is that in sleep the mind remains in its causal or seed form, which

is avidyA. In the waking state all experiences are produced by vrittis of

the mind. In sleep since the mind is in the form of avidyA, the experience

of happiness and ignorance is due to avidyavritti. This is also

specifically stated in Vedantaparibhasha. Sri Sankara has said in his

bhAshya on Br. up. that a man on waking up from deep sleep says, " I slept

happily, I did not know anything " . This statement has been understood by

subsequent Acharyas as meaning that happiness and ignorance were experienced

in deep sleep. We have to go on the basis of these settled conclusions in

advaita. If we start questioning even these established and accepted

conclusions it will amount to creating a new theory of advaita for which I

have neither the capacity nor the inclination. .

 

You have asked how avidyA and happiness can co-exist in sleep. Sankara's

statement quoted above clearly says that they co-exist. Moreover, in the

waking state avidyA is there and at the same time we experience happiness at

least now and then. It is the established conclusion in Vedanta, based on

upanishadic statements themselves that the happiness we experence in the

waking state is only a reflection of the bliss that is the very nature of

Brahman. It is the same happiness that is experienced in sleep. So why can

happiness and avidyA not co-exist in sleep? I can quote authority for every

one of the statements I have made here, but it will make this note very

long. If you are so inclined, you may please see paras 165 and 166 of my

translation of Madhusudana Sarasvati's Siddhanta Bindu which deal with these

points, on my website.

 

You have asked –

 

3. How does the knowledge of " happiness and ignorance " in sleep

transfer from avidyA to the void when the latter becomes functional

as mind on waking? Secondly, how can a knowledge occur in avidyA?

My answer---

 

As I have said above, it is the mind itself that is in the form of avidyA in

sleep and becomes the mind again on waking up. So it is the same entity,

though in different forms and there is no need for any transfer of

knowledge. I said knowledge occurs through avidyAvritti, which is the vritti

of the mind in the the causal form in which it is during sleep. This

avidyAvritti cognizes in the same way as the vritti of the mind cognizes

during waking. Vedanta paribhasha says that this avdyavritti has as its

object of cognition the avidyA which is always present till realization of

the Self takes place. This may be a difficult point to understand, but it is

the established view in vedanta. You have to understand the difference

between avidyA and avidyavritti.

 

Avidyavriti is not confined to the sleep state alone. It arises in the

waking state also in certain circumstances. The Vedantic view is that when a

person sees silver where there is only nacre, the cognition of silver is not

brought about by a vritti of the mind like cognitions in general, because

the mind can cognise anything only through one of the sense-organs. The eye

is not in contact with the nacre-silver for the simple reason that silver is

not physically there. So the nacre-ailver cannot be cognized by a normal

vrtti of the mind So it is said that the cognition of silver arises not

through a mano-vritti, but through an avidyAvritti. I have given this as a

note under para 90 in my translation of Madhusudana Sarasvati's

Siddhantabindu, which I have posted on my website. These are higly abstruse

points and I did not want to bring them out, but I had to bring it because

of your questions.

 

4.Happiness in waking is experienced due to the mind being behind

enjoyment. Is it in a similar manner that avidyA-vritti functions in

sleep?

Answer- Happiness is experienced during the waking state by a vritti or

modification of the mind. AvidyAvritti takes the place of mano-vritti in

sleep

 

5. Ignorance means " I did not know anything " . How can that co-exist

with " happiness " in sleep where " happiness " is a something known?

Answer- Ignorance is avidya. It exists in the waking state also though there

is also happiness now and then . There is no conflict between the two.

 

S.N.Sastri

 

 

 

Namaste Respected Shri Sastri-ji,

 

I don't normally bother about such details. But, this is getting

really complicated. Your clarification to Br. Vinayaka raises some

questions:

 

1. Mind is a flow of thoughts, we are told. A mind that has stopped

functioning would mean an absence of thoughts - a void. Right?

 

2. Avidya is a something. How can a something take the place of a

void? Besides, we need the mind to know that there is avidya.

 

3. How does the knowledge of " happiness and ignorance " in sleep

transfer from avidyA to the void when the latter becomes functional

as mind on waking? Secondly, how can a knowledge occur in avidyA?

 

4. Happiness in waking is experienced due to the mind being behind

enjoyment. Is it in a similar manner that avidyA-vritti functions in

sleep?

 

5. Ignorance means " I did not know anything " . How can that co-exist

with " happiness " in sleep where " happiness " is a something known?

 

Sorry for the bother. I am afraid we are getting really mired.

 

PraNAms and best regards.

 

Madathil Nair

______________

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Respected Shri Sastri-ji.

 

Thanks for the very painstaking explanations. I can appreciate your

stand.

 

PraNAms.

 

Madathil Nair

______________________

 

 

 

advaitin , " S.N. Sastri " <sn.sastri wrote:

......>We have to go on the basis of these settled conclusions in

>advaita.