brahma jnAni & his prArabdha karma

[Guest guest]

Humble praNAms respected Sri Sastri prabhuji

Hare Krishna

 

prabhuji, I have changed the subject heading which, I think, is relevant to

the on going discussion.

 

Thanks a lot for quoting shankara bhAshya to substantiate the claim that

vidEha mukti is the ultimate one & jnAni (after realization) carries the

prArabdha karma till he leaves his body. I have noted all your quotes from

bhAshya & would like to discuss all these bhAshya bhAga in a separate mail

off line coz. I think discussion of this nature would be too technical &

most of the members would not be interested in it. However, I would like

to present some general observation with some relevant bhAshya quotes with

regard to *prArabdha karma's influence on jnAni...

 

 

The first & foremost question needs to addressed here is, if jnAna is

connected only with the jIvAtma's (or whatever it is) upAdhi-s (I hope you

agree with me that there is no jnAna and ajnAna business in absolute

non-dual brahman), how exactly does it matter whether the embodiedness or

otherwise for brahma jnAni? Dont we says brahma jnAna is upAdhi bAdhita

jnAna?? jnAna is the realisation of unity (Ikyata) of the Self and Brahman

or the realization of the truth that THERE IS ONLY BRAHMAN NOTHING ELSE.

When this truth has been realized, there is nothing else to achieve. Under

these circumstances, the presence or absence of a body & related prArabda

karma & its influence etc. etc. are totally immaterial is it not?? Here

brahma jnAna is verily the identity with the Absolute. It is the final

realisation that only the Absolute exist. And there was/is/will be no time

a jnAni think that he was/is/will be an embodied one!!!...He realizes the

truth that it was only due to ajnAna he was seeing the snake in place of

rope..nothing else...Since the Absolute (brahman) is nothing but the true

nature of the jignAsu, it is just the realisation of one's own real nature

through the removal of ignorance. The notion of jIva who is capable of

action, who is seeking liberation, who's doing sAdhana are all in the realm

of ignorance only. And prArabda karma & its effect also in the realm of

ajnAna only is it not? considering this, how can we say jnAni has to

undergo prArabhda karma phala?? Liberation is the complete eradication of

this very wrong notion / ignorance is it not??

 

Same thing shankara quotes in sUtra bhAshya (4-1-13) :The knower of brahman

will have come to this conclusion that " I am brahman devoid of *all*

agentship and experiencing fruits of actions for all the three periods of

time. I was never an agent or experiencer even before this, nor am I such

now, nor shall I be such in future " . Now tell me prabhuji, how prArabhdha

can have a say on jnAni?? How can a jnAni still maintain pramAtrutva when

the jnAna sublates the very knowership of pramAtrutva?? That is the reason

why shankara clearly says in his preamble to sUtra bhAshya that all

vyavahAra (loukika, shAstra/vaidika) including mOksha are in the realm of

avidyA.

 

 

Again, shankara observes in gIta bhAshya as well as in sUtra bhAshya that :

 

gIta 5.1 : the knower of brahman is free from *all* types of ajnAna,

karma-yOga since mis-apprehension cannot find a place in him...

 

sUtra bhAshya : 1-1-28 : For the absolute destruction of *all* karma-s is

well known to result from the knowledge of brahman, in shruti-s like the

following " And his karma-s are destroyed when that brahman which is both

the higher and the lower (both the cause and the effect) is realized as

one's own self (muNdaka-2-2-8)...

 

Elsewhere in gIta bhAshya shankara says, the yOgi, having become Brahman,

*even while he is still alive* (or in socalled body) realizes brahman &

gets absolute liberation "

 

It is clear from above quotes that a brahma jnAni doesn't have to wait for

anything

after the realisation of the Unity of the Self. Whatever is there in

*vidEha mukti* will be experienced by him here in this very life. Though

his body which is the effect of the merits and demerits of past lives will

continue its course just like a wheel set in motion or arrow that left the

bow, the jnAni does not get affected by it in anyway..that is the reason

why his body has been compared to valmIka (ant hill) in bruhadAraNyaka

shruti. When there is complete annihilation of doership on his part,

whether it is sadEha mukti or vidEha mukti hardly matters for him.

 

Hence, bhagavatpAda, says in tattusamanvayAt sUtra (1-1-4):

 

" Therefore, since being embodied is the result of false notions, it is

proved that the enlightened person is not embodied even while alive "

 

Moreover, if we accept that there is an influence of prArabdha karma even

on brahma jnAni, How can this jnAni be called brahma jnAni or brahman?

(brahmavit brahmaiva bhavati...says shruti). How can this absolute jnAni

still carry agnAna (ignorance)in the form of prArabdha karma when he has

attained his *own* state i.e. ekIbhUta or sarvAntaryAmItva. What is the

locus of agnAna in this state?? who is going to experience this

prArabdha?? since there is no jIvahood as such & it is ekIbhUta, should we

say then brahman is the locus of avidya and the experiencer of this

prArabdha karma phala?? pls. clarify.

 

Now, coming back to your quote from br. bhAshya, the arrow that has been

shot. Here the purpose of life in the body is meant only for the

exhaustion of momentum of

the effect which has already started its course. It doesn't anyway come in

the way of absolute jnAna of a brahma jnAni or has any other effect on the

jnAni. It doesn't affect the jIvanmukta in any way to say that he has to

*actually experience* the prArabhdha karma & he attains absolute only after

giving up his body etc..

As said by shankara in sUtra bhAshya, the jnAni is already liberated while

in this body. If liberation in the absolute sense is possible only after

the death of physical body of jnAni then it would mean that for a jnAni

absolute final liberation is only death, which is, in my opinion quite

absurd.

 

As you know, what is called mukti/liberation/salvation in the advaita

school, unlike other schools, is the full and immediate at the very

instant of the rise of brahma-Atma vijnAna coz. in the elimentary lesson

itself we learn that this *dEha* & identity with it is kEvala avidyA

vyavahAra. So, IMHO, it is not just a question of influence prArabdha karma

or continuance of the physical body of a jnAni (if jnAni=brahman, how can

brahman have a body?? dont this question arise in our mind!!)

due to prArabdha karma. It is just meant to say that there is no further

impetus

towards action of any type, from the very instant of the dawn of non-dual

knowledge (saMyag jnAna). There is no further becoming, no more body, no

more individual identity...for he is indifferent to the effects of even

prArabdha karma.

His all wishes have been fulfilled and after death there is no going

anywhere - AptakAma AtmakAma ... na tasya prANA utkrAmanti - bRuhadAraNyaka

shruti. There is no more individual soul either to say that he carries

prArabdha karma, for the jnAni knows his sarvAtmatva fully. jnAni' body &

related issues etc. all said and done only for the sake of people who are

still seeing the continued embodiment of jnAni. It does not anyway mean

that jnAni has to really under go the effects of prArabdha karma..

 

With the light of the above we have to study & understand the quotes from

br.bhashya 1.4.7 & 1.4.10 prabhuji. Shankara, in 1.4.7 says, bhAvinI

pravruttir vAng-manaH-kAyAnAM and jnAna-pravRtti-daurbalyam etc.. In this

case, he says sAdhana-s like tyAga and vairAgya are necessary to counter

the effects of prArabdha karma. Shankara talks about *jnAna

daurbalyaM*...can absolute Atma jnAna become weak under the influence of

karma?? is it acceptable?? But this weakness of jnAna is said for those

whose jnAna is not riped fully, for them manana and nididhyAsana are

necessary.

 

Since it is already getting lengthy, I shall stop after one final quote

from shankara's sUtra bhAshya-1-1-4 with regard to vidEha mukti. Here,

shankara clearly says the jnAni who knows the Atman that is embodied even

while he is in the bodies, changeless among the changeful bodies. For that

matter, Shrutis also says that mOksha transpires *immediately* (jnAna

samakAle) after the dawn of knowledge of brahman.

 

Kindly pardon me for the length of this mail prabhuji...Kindly do correct

me if I said anything bhAshya viruddha...It is indeed my pleasure & fortune

to discuss shankara siddhAnta with your goodself prabhji.

 

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

bhaskar

 

PS : Most probably, this week end I shall try to send you a separate

personal mail with regard to your bhAshya quotes from chAndOgya &

bruhadAraNyaka quotes... & Sri SSS's observations on that...Kindly bear with

me till then prabhuji.

[Guest guest]

Namaste Bhaskar-ji and Sastriji.

 

Reference Bhaskar-ji's post #38020.

 

Bhaskar-ji's thoughts on mukti are very important to all of us. In

fact, without any thorough knowledge of the bhASyAs, I have espoused

a similar kind of understanding here. So, kindly keep the List

posted of the progress on this issue. If a debate is too technical

for the List to remain interested, I would much appreciate reading a

final summary here when you both hit common ground.

 

PraNAms.

 

Madathil Nair

______________

 

advaitin , bhaskar.yr wrote:

 

> Thanks a lot for quoting shankara bhAshya to substantiate the claim

that vidEha mukti is the ultimate one & jnAni (after realization)

carries the prArabdha karma till he leaves his body. I have noted all

your quotes from bhAshya & would like to discuss all these bhAshya

bhAga in a separate mail off line coz. I think discussion of this

nature would be too technical & most of the members would not be

interested in it.

[Guest guest]

Dear Bhaskarji,

 

I am not sure I understand what specifically is your point. From the

Paramarthika perspective, the Self alone exists and nobody has any

karma of any kind. The jnani's perspective is the paramarthika

perspective and so the jnani does not think that he (or anyone else

for that matter) is subject to prarabdha. From the vyavaharika

perspective, the jnani is a person who is free from ignorance. This

person has a body, which, like all other bodies,is subject to

prarabdha. Are you denying any of this or are you just saying that it

is not particularly useful to discuss a jnani's prarabdha because it

neither affects a jnani nor an ajnani?

 

Regards,

 

Rishi.