What's in a name! Divine madness & Dementia !

[Guest guest]

Vinayaka-ji Writes : What a question! alzheimer's for a perfected

sage! LOL LOL! :-))

Anyways, I would like to know such cases if they do exist, et al.)

 

Well, my dear Son! Sunderji has already written to you about Richard

Rose, the zen master , who battled for ten years with Alzheimer's.

And what a beautiful poem , Sunderji posted from thsae pen of that

Poet-philosopher and what memorable lines from Someone who lost

his 'memory' years later!

 

" For words, symbols of confusion

Would only increase confusion

But silence, seeming to be vagueness,

Shall be my cadence "

 

Anyway , We are all 'mad' for something or the other ! Some are crazy

about name and fame; others are crazy for power ; Still more covet

wealth and women ' but Thakore Sri RAMAKRISHNA suffered from a

different kind of 'madness called 'Divine ! This was the State of

Krishna premi Mirabai also - She was 'bavali ' ( one smitten with the

love of her Giridhara Gopala) !

 

i wonder if any of the Hindu sages or saints ever suffered from

Alzheimer's ( a form of dementia ) but they did suffer from Divine

madness called 'Pittam' - One such Muruga Bhakta called him 'pithukuli

Murugadas' - he was so mad after Lord Muruga ( son of Lord Shiva ) ,

he was called Pithukuli Murugadas!

 

To read about this great Devotional musician of Muruga SONGS, pl go to

http:// www.chembur.com/muruga/index.htm

 

and you can listen to his songs on

 

http://www.musicindiaonline.com/music/devotional/m/singer.151

 

THE TAMIZH WORD for 'madness ' is 'Paithiyam' -derived from the root

word 'pitta' !

 

Kanchi Mahaperiyavaal has this interesting explanation to offer :

 

" SahasraNaamam calls Ambaal by a name 'Matta'. matta means 'affected

by madness'. We say matta gajam (mad elephant)! The buddhi of an

elephant affected by matta will never be in svAdInam (normalcy).

Intoxicated by lust, its buddhi would have been impaired. matta also

refers to the state of remaining drunk with the cittam (mind)

impaired. mata neer is only pitta neer (bile). mattam and pittam are

one and the same. What happens when the pittam shoots up is paityam,

what we call paittiyam (in Tamil for a madman). We refer to getting

affected with paityam as 'pittam shooting up to the head'. Therefore,

the state of the cittam becoming agitated are these pittam and

mattam. "

 

That is why devotees offer a garland of 'Lemons' to Ambaal to calm her

down!

 

Mahaperiyavaal says further

 

" " Just as the mati (mind) gets agitated by taking madhu (liquor),

with divine matters also if Ananda madhu (the liquor of happiness) is

taken only intoxication would shoot up and result in a similar state!

But then later that would turn to amRutam (nectar). Going the yoga

way, a lot has been said about the nectar of the moon pouring from the

head chakra in the final stage. Even for those bhaktas and jnAnis who

do not go on the yoga path, in a high stage, in the same way, the

amRuta madhu would pour from the shiras chandran (moon in the head).

 

The Purusha Suktam says that Chandran, Suryan, Indran and Agni all

came out from different organs of Bhagavan. There it is said that

Chandran arose from his manas (mind), an inner organ. This is why

Chandran affects the mind in two ways--for good and bad in different

conditions. The term mati in Tamil refers both to the mind and the

moon. The Sanskrit mati is only related to the mind; Chandran is not a

meaning for it. The word 'mattam' is also based on the mati that is

manas. The unmattam that results in that way has a very high,

pAramArthika (lofty) meaning. This manas is the reason for our always

creating thoughts and getting knocked about by a hundred thousand

emotions of pleasure and pain, anger and heat. The individual mind

that everyone of us have is what separates us as Jivatma from

Paramatma. If we lift this mind and throw it away and then rise high,

that is the parama shanta, parama satya state where there is no

cAncalyaM (fickleness). There is no samAcaram (matter) there to get

motthu (knocking about). [Chuckling like a child and admiring it

says.] It will be all be metthu (soft)! No motthu. No mattam, unmattam

like churning with a matthu (beater). It will be metthu, metthu (soft

throughout). Thus, rising above the manas that is also mati, is the

state of unmanam, which is also the unmAtam or unmattam. "

 

http://www.kanchiforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=24972 - 234k

 

 

Yes! Dear hearts ! When you reach the height of Spiritual ecstasy (

what is called Unmatham), you behave like a 'madman' - The KUNDALINI

REREACHES THE SAHASARA CHAKRA ( CROWN OF THE HEAD) ( where there is

union of the divine couple shiva and shakti ) , the debvotees weeps

like a madman or weeps like a child ! Such was Sri Ramakrishna's

state!

 

While talking of divine madness , names of two Tantrik saints come to

mind - Vama khepa , aint of Tarapith and Nengta baba of Khada!

 

To read about Vama Khepa ( the mad saint) pl go to

 

http://darkgoddesses.tribe.net/thread/c67372b4-5773-4878-969c-

54c3eb8a0a18

 

The great Avadhuta , Lord Dattatrya was also considered ;mad' by his

contemporaries ! Lord Dattatreya never cared for social norms or

etiquette ! He often wandered 'naked - sometimes swimming in the

local 'rivers' with women of ill repute, intoxicated with liquor or

eating Hog's meat ! but , Dattatreya was the greatest of al Tantrik

mystics who gave us the most valuable 'Avadhuta Gita' - a great

scriptural text on non-duality!

 

So who is to say Who is mad and who is Sane ?

 

Here i would like to talk about the " dark night of the soul " - this ia

poem written by the Spanish poet and Roman Catholic mystic Saint John

of the Cross, a Carmelite priest in the 16th century. Did you know

that many spiritual seekers pass through many agonizing nights of

darkness before they see the 'light' - those periods of darkness are

sheer hell and these mystics go through a lot of mental agony and

torture almosr bordering on insanity!

 

Since we are talking about 'madness' , may i also mention about

Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche (1844 – 1900), the German Philosopher also

beiived to be atheist and opposed to the Christianity! Well, Nietzsche

suffered from severe mental illness (TOWARDS THE END OF HIS LIFE.

Strangely, Nietzsche mad this wise comment " Friedrich Nietzsche

Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties,

nations and epochs, it is the rule. "

 

So true ! This may explain why we see so many christian

fundamentalists , hindu extremists and islamic fanatics ! They are all

prepared to die for religion but do not want to live for it!

 

Yes! DEAR ONES! JNANIS do not suffer from 'dementia ' - they are

parama bhaktas who suffer from Divine madness !

 

Let us leave 'Alzheimer's ( a form of dementia )' TO THE MORE RICH AND

THE FAMOUS AMONGST US ALTHOUGH IT AFFECTS RICH AND POOR ALIKE!

President Ronald Reagan , Actress Rita Hayworth, Singer Perry Como,

African american activist Rosa Parks , Boxer Sugar Ray Robinson and

Author Abe Burrows etc etc ....

 

But, folks ! THE WORD 'LUNACY IS DERIVED FROM THE WORD 'LUNAR' WHICH

STANDS FOR 'MOON' -on a full moon night , we are affliced with

moonlight madness ! This is the state of Lovers ! They are madly in

love ! But when you are in love with 'chitta chora' ( one who steals

your chitta) , your 'madness' can nver be cured except by His Divine

vision ! The jivatma gets cured of his/her madness when he/she

eternally unites with the paramatma in Divine union!

 

As my beloved Rumi sings in longing and yearning

 

" I have lived on the lip

of insanity, wanting to know reasons,

knocking on a door. It opens.

I've been knocking from the inside! (Rain: 75)

 

LOVE AND REGARDS

[Guest guest]

Dear hearts :

 

pl try this link for Vama Kshepa , the mad saint of Tarapith!

 

http://www.om-guru.com/html/saints/vama.html

 

and if the pithukuli murgadas link does not work just cut and paste

the web addrerss in search !

 

btw, read this poem on :

 

In losing all, the soul has risen (from Self-Annihilation and

Charity Lead the Soul...)

 

 

In losing all, the soul has risen

To the pinnacle of the measureless;

Because it has renounced all

That is not divine,

It now holds in its grasp

The unimaginable Good

In all its abundance,

A loss and a gain impossible to describe.

 

To lose and to hold tightly,

To love and take delight in,

To gaze upon and contemplate,

To possess utterly,

To float in that immensity

And to rest therein --

That is the work of unceasing exchange

Of charity and truth.

 

There is no other action at those heights;

What the questing soul once was it has ceased to be.

Neither heat nor fiery love

Nor suffering has place here.

This is not light as the soul has imagined it.

All it had sought it must now forget,

And pass on to a new world,

Beyond its powers of perception.

 

-- from Jacopone da Todi:Translated by Serge and Elizabeth Hughes

 

http://www.Poetry-Chaikhana.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In advaitin , " bhagini_niveditaa "

<bhagini_niveditaa wrote:

[Guest guest]

Maybe the fact that we took birth--again, and for the

millionth time???---indicates we had Alzheimer's

BEFORE we were " born " ??? Do we forget again and again

and keep coming back to this place???? Hmmm....I can't

seem to remember...

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Namaste Steve-ji.

 

Well, that happens even between dreaming and waking. We don't

remember most of our dreams! Freud explains it as morality-based

defence mechanism.

 

Alzheimer's is certainly tragic for those who look on. We can't

guess how it is for those who suffer from.

 

I remember a devotee of Lord Krishna who underwent extreme misery in

his last days. Those who attended to him were horrified and wondered

if such suffering was warranted for all his devotion. However, the

devotee seemed to be oblivious to his suffering and passed away

chanting constantly the name of his Lord. We don't know anything,

Steve-ji. Our guesses don't take us anywhere. In fact, we, the

onlookers are the ones really suffering and Alzheimer's is our

prArabdha!

 

PraNAms.

 

Madathil Nair

________________

 

advaitin , Steve Stoker <otnac6 wrote:

>

>

> Maybe the fact that we took birth--again, and for the

> millionth time???---indicates we had Alzheimer's

> BEFORE we were " born " ??? Do we forget again and again

> and keep coming back to this place???? Hmmm....I can't

> seem to remember...

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " bhagini_niveditaa "

<bhagini_niveditaa wrote:

 

 

> Well, my dear Son! Sunderji has already written to you about Richard

> Rose, the zen master , who battled for ten years with Alzheimer's.

> And what a beautiful poem , Sunderji posted from thsae pen of that

> Poet-philosopher and what memorable lines from Someone who lost

> his 'memory' years later!

 

Dear mAtAji,

 

The sages whom I revere say that the intuition of reality is an utter

impossibility if one does not practice yama,niyama and especially

brahmachArya for a considerable length of time. And they say that

those who follow strict brahmacharya, the chances of getting afflicted

with mental disorders is very less. The memory, intelligence is

directly related with the celibecy. That is why in our hindu tradition

a student is supposed to be a brahmachAri or a celibate. They do

accept that they are very much prone to other diseases like cancer,

diabetes etc., which was suffered by jnAnis like ramaNa, and Sri

Ramakrishna.

 

But it really sounds very strange to indian student like me if one

says that a real sadguru looses the memory of his jnAna. Of course, he

may forget couple of slokas and name of the so called disciples. But

until their last moment they have taught this brahma vidyA and when

they leave the body they are fully conscious unlike the worldly

people. Of course, rare exceptions may be there which I am not aware of.

 

I am always very much interested to study the last part of life of the

illumined beings. There is something special in the teachings of those

mahatmas imparted at that time. As someone told rightly, for us

disciples they are unconscious they are fully 'aware'.

 

Is there any great tragedy if a true bhakta of sri krishna dies

without recalling him due to some mental disorder? Will the lord allow

such things to happen?

 

Yours in Sri Ramakrishna,

 

Br. Vinayaka.

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " bhagini_niveditaa "

<bhagini_niveditaa wrote:

 

mAtAji, sAshTAnga danDa praNAmaH,

 

I have no words to express my feelings after reading your post. It was

simply awesome. You have shown us a multitude of instances of the

greatest of saints intoxicated with god-love - divine madness.

 

I wish you a happy journey to India. I request you to take part in the

discussions even after coming to India if possible. SrI Ramachandran

ji has rightly said, " When some member asks some doubts on subject

matter, you always volunteer to clear them with available information

from the homepages. " We will miss a lot if you quit from writing in

this forum. But somewhere I am a bit happy to know that you are coming

to India. You are coming nearer to me. :-)

 

With all hope that you will resume your nectarine words in this forum.

 

Yours loving child,

 

SAMPATH.

 

P.S. I shall write my opinion about the mental disorders of jnAnis in

a separate post wherein I would try to reconcile my views with Sruti.

 

 

=============================

> Well, my dear Son! Sunderji has already written to you about Richard

> Rose, the zen master , who battled for ten years with Alzheimer's.

> And what a beautiful poem , Sunderji posted from thsae pen of that

> Poet-philosopher and what memorable lines from Someone who lost

> his 'memory' years later!

>

> " For words, symbols of confusion

> Would only increase confusion

> But silence, seeming to be vagueness,

> Shall be my cadence "

>

> Anyway , We are all 'mad' for something or the other ! Some are crazy

> about name and fame; others are crazy for power ; Still more covet

> wealth and women ' but Thakore Sri RAMAKRISHNA suffered from a

> different kind of 'madness called 'Divine ! This was the State of

> Krishna premi Mirabai also - She was 'bavali ' ( one smitten with the

> love of her Giridhara Gopala) !

>

> i wonder if any of the Hindu sages or saints ever suffered from

> Alzheimer's ( a form of dementia ) but they did suffer from Divine

> madness called 'Pittam' - One such Muruga Bhakta called him 'pithukuli

> Murugadas' - he was so mad after Lord Muruga ( son of Lord Shiva ) ,

> he was called Pithukuli Murugadas!

>

> To read about this great Devotional musician of Muruga SONGS, pl go to

> http:// www.chembur.com/muruga/index.htm

>

> and you can listen to his songs on

>

> http://www.musicindiaonline.com/music/devotional/m/singer.151

>

> THE TAMIZH WORD for 'madness ' is 'Paithiyam' -derived from the root

> word 'pitta' !

>

> Kanchi Mahaperiyavaal has this interesting explanation to offer :

>

> " SahasraNaamam calls Ambaal by a name 'Matta'. matta means 'affected

> by madness'. We say matta gajam (mad elephant)! The buddhi of an

> elephant affected by matta will never be in svAdInam (normalcy).

> Intoxicated by lust, its buddhi would have been impaired. matta also

> refers to the state of remaining drunk with the cittam (mind)

> impaired. mata neer is only pitta neer (bile). mattam and pittam are

> one and the same. What happens when the pittam shoots up is paityam,

> what we call paittiyam (in Tamil for a madman). We refer to getting

> affected with paityam as 'pittam shooting up to the head'. Therefore,

> the state of the cittam becoming agitated are these pittam and

> mattam. "

>

> That is why devotees offer a garland of 'Lemons' to Ambaal to calm her

> down!

>

> Mahaperiyavaal says further

>

> " " Just as the mati (mind) gets agitated by taking madhu (liquor),

> with divine matters also if Ananda madhu (the liquor of happiness) is

> taken only intoxication would shoot up and result in a similar state!

> But then later that would turn to amRutam (nectar). Going the yoga

> way, a lot has been said about the nectar of the moon pouring from the

> head chakra in the final stage. Even for those bhaktas and jnAnis who

> do not go on the yoga path, in a high stage, in the same way, the

> amRuta madhu would pour from the shiras chandran (moon in the head).

>

> The Purusha Suktam says that Chandran, Suryan, Indran and Agni all

> came out from different organs of Bhagavan. There it is said that

> Chandran arose from his manas (mind), an inner organ. This is why

> Chandran affects the mind in two ways--for good and bad in different

> conditions. The term mati in Tamil refers both to the mind and the

> moon. The Sanskrit mati is only related to the mind; Chandran is not a

> meaning for it. The word 'mattam' is also based on the mati that is

> manas. The unmattam that results in that way has a very high,

> pAramArthika (lofty) meaning. This manas is the reason for our always

> creating thoughts and getting knocked about by a hundred thousand

> emotions of pleasure and pain, anger and heat. The individual mind

> that everyone of us have is what separates us as Jivatma from

> Paramatma. If we lift this mind and throw it away and then rise high,

> that is the parama shanta, parama satya state where there is no

> cAncalyaM (fickleness). There is no samAcaram (matter) there to get

> motthu (knocking about). [Chuckling like a child and admiring it

> says.] It will be all be metthu (soft)! No motthu. No mattam, unmattam

> like churning with a matthu (beater). It will be metthu, metthu (soft

> throughout). Thus, rising above the manas that is also mati, is the

> state of unmanam, which is also the unmAtam or unmattam. "

>

> http://www.kanchiforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=24972 - 234k

>

>

> Yes! Dear hearts ! When you reach the height of Spiritual ecstasy (

> what is called Unmatham), you behave like a 'madman' - The KUNDALINI

> REREACHES THE SAHASARA CHAKRA ( CROWN OF THE HEAD) ( where there is

> union of the divine couple shiva and shakti ) , the debvotees weeps

> like a madman or weeps like a child ! Such was Sri Ramakrishna's

> state!

>

> While talking of divine madness , names of two Tantrik saints come to

> mind - Vama khepa , aint of Tarapith and Nengta baba of Khada!

>

> To read about Vama Khepa ( the mad saint) pl go to

>

> http://darkgoddesses.tribe.net/thread/c67372b4-5773-4878-969c-

> 54c3eb8a0a18

>

> The great Avadhuta , Lord Dattatrya was also considered ;mad' by his

> contemporaries ! Lord Dattatreya never cared for social norms or

> etiquette ! He often wandered 'naked - sometimes swimming in the

> local 'rivers' with women of ill repute, intoxicated with liquor or

> eating Hog's meat ! but , Dattatreya was the greatest of al Tantrik

> mystics who gave us the most valuable 'Avadhuta Gita' - a great

> scriptural text on non-duality!

>

> So who is to say Who is mad and who is Sane ?

>

> Here i would like to talk about the " dark night of the soul " - this ia

> poem written by the Spanish poet and Roman Catholic mystic Saint John

> of the Cross, a Carmelite priest in the 16th century. Did you know

> that many spiritual seekers pass through many agonizing nights of

> darkness before they see the 'light' - those periods of darkness are

> sheer hell and these mystics go through a lot of mental agony and

> torture almosr bordering on insanity!

>

> Since we are talking about 'madness' , may i also mention about

> Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche (1844 – 1900), the German Philosopher also

> beiived to be atheist and opposed to the Christianity! Well, Nietzsche

> suffered from severe mental illness (TOWARDS THE END OF HIS LIFE.

> Strangely, Nietzsche mad this wise comment " Friedrich Nietzsche

> Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties,

> nations and epochs, it is the rule. "

>

> So true ! This may explain why we see so many christian

> fundamentalists , hindu extremists and islamic fanatics ! They are all

> prepared to die for religion but do not want to live for it!

>

> Yes! DEAR ONES! JNANIS do not suffer from 'dementia ' - they are

> parama bhaktas who suffer from Divine madness !

>

> Let us leave 'Alzheimer's ( a form of dementia )' TO THE MORE RICH AND

> THE FAMOUS AMONGST US ALTHOUGH IT AFFECTS RICH AND POOR ALIKE!

> President Ronald Reagan , Actress Rita Hayworth, Singer Perry Como,

> African american activist Rosa Parks , Boxer Sugar Ray Robinson and

> Author Abe Burrows etc etc ....

>

> But, folks ! THE WORD 'LUNACY IS DERIVED FROM THE WORD 'LUNAR' WHICH

> STANDS FOR 'MOON' -on a full moon night , we are affliced with

> moonlight madness ! This is the state of Lovers ! They are madly in

> love ! But when you are in love with 'chitta chora' ( one who steals

> your chitta) , your 'madness' can nver be cured except by His Divine

> vision ! The jivatma gets cured of his/her madness when he/she

> eternally unites with the paramatma in Divine union!

>

> As my beloved Rumi sings in longing and yearning

>

> " I have lived on the lip

> of insanity, wanting to know reasons,

> knocking on a door. It opens.

> I've been knocking from the inside! (Rain: 75)

>

> LOVE AND REGARDS

>