Mechanical and organic

[Guest guest]

Dear Br. Vinayaka,

Each subtle body is a separate unit which goes on from birth to birth taking

different gross bodies. Old karma gets erased by experience and new karma is

added during every life, but the iindividuality of each subtle body remains

intact. The subtle body ceases to exist when Self-knowledge dawns.

I do not understand what you mean by 'interchangeable with the elements'.I

suppose what I have said answers your doubt.

S.N.Sastri

 

 

Dear Shastri-ji,

 

I have a question here. Just like the gross matter of the stUla

sharIra is the subtle matter of the sUkshma sharira is interchangeable

with the elements/tanmAtras outside of it? Is there any references for

this question in the upanishads/bhAshya?

 

Though this question is not related with the self-knowledge, if it is

true, it would be one more pointer to show us that, there is nothing

called 'mine'. :-)

 

Yours in Sri Ramakrishna,

 

Br. Vinayaka.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " S.N. Sastri " <sn.sastri wrote:

>

> Dear Br. Vinayaka,

> Each subtle body is a separate unit which goes on from birth to

birth taking

> different gross bodies. Old karma gets erased by experience and new

karma is

> added during every life, but the iindividuality of each subtle body

remains

> intact. The subtle body ceases to exist when Self-knowledge dawns.

> I do not understand what you mean by 'interchangeable with the

elements'.I

> suppose what I have said answers your doubt.

> S.N.Sastri

 

Dear Shastri-ji,

 

What you say is true. Until death, gross body persists and until the

dawn of the knowledge the subtle body persists.

 

What I wanted to ask specifically is, though gross body persists till

death, the matter with which body is composed in not the same, its

under constant change. It is interchangeable with the matter/energy

available to us. For ex: We get energy from food and with the help of

it food our body produces blood, cells etc.

 

In the similar fashion, is there any hard and fast rule that the same

tanmAtras should persist in the subtle body until the knowledge dawns?

What do the scriptures say on this point? If it is accepted that the

subtle body too consumes food, the answer would be obvious. We hindus

when we perform shrAddha do offer food and it is told in our

scriptures that it does reach them.

 

Individuality, of course, as in the case of the gross body, should

remain intact.

 

I have a faint recollection of something I have read on this topic. It

goes like this: jIva is compared to a force just like a force which

propels a wave in the ocean. It pulls up water at different places and

leaves when it moves, the content of the wave is different at

different point of time, but the force which propels it remains the same.

 

Hope I have conveyed my question to you correctly.

 

Yours in Sri Ramakrishna,

 

Br. Vinayaka.

[Guest guest]

--- Vinayaka <vinayaka_ns wrote:

 

>

> In the similar fashion, is there any hard and fast

> rule that the same

> tanmAtras should persist in the subtle body until

> the knowledge dawns?

 

 

Vinayakji - PraNAms.

 

I think you are using grosser laws to the subtle

matter. In the Ch. Up. Uddalaka gives an exercise to

his son -Svetaketu - to stop eating for 15days. The

subtle body, besides the gross body becomes week since

the subtle body is preserved by subtle food extracted

from the gross food (gross has subtle elements due to

panceekaraNa).

 

Jiiva is the reflected consciousness in the mind -

chidaabhaasa and death involves gathering all the

subtle body components that include jnaanedriyas and

praaNas and exiting using udaana.

 

Traveling subtle body does require only subtle forces

not gross forces and energies. The force is provided

by the pressure of vaasanas. The movement of the

subtle body occurs due to that pressure.

 

It is just like movement of dream objects in the

dream. What forces moves the tiger in the dream? The

movement of the subtle matter (in this case may be

thoughts) occurs by the subtle energies extracted from

the pancabhuutas that have all the elements required

due to panceekaraNa.

 

Transmigration of the soul is only in the subtle

fields which are lokas - the movement again is

provided by the force or pressure of vaasanas. The

model is self consistent. All in all, the experiences

and the movement are similar to that of dream - hence

they are bhoga bhuumis. ksheene punye martryu lokam

vishanti - says Gita - One is pushed back to this

grosser world once the forces that contribute to

movement in the subtler world are exhausted.

 

From your point, yes the subtle body along with the

jnaanedriyas and karmendriays - total package remains

with the jiiva until the jiiva realizes that he is

none other than the totality that pervades. Then there

is no movement since movement can occur for finite and

not infinite.

 

This is the gist- about the actual references to the

scriptures, you may have to dig or Shree Basker or

shree paramahamsavivekananda may be able to help.

 

 

Hope this helps.

Sadananda