Mechanical and organic

[Guest guest]

Dear Br. Vinayaka,

I have not seen anywhere in the upanishads anything on this point. They do

not say anything on whether the same tanmatras continue or they go on

changing.

S.N.Sastri

 

In the similar fashion, is there any hard and fast rule that the same

tanmAtras should persist in the subtle body until the knowledge dawns?

What do the scriptures say on this point? If it is accepted that the

subtle body too consumes food, the answer would be obvious. We hindus

when we perform shrAddha do offer food and it is told in our

scriptures that it does reach them.

 

Individuality, of course, as in the case of the gross body, should

remain intact.

 

I have a faint recollection of something I have read on this topic. It

goes like this: jIva is compared to a force just like a force which

propels a wave in the ocean. It pulls up water at different places and

leaves when it moves, the content of the wave is different at

different point of time, but the force which propels it remains the same.

 

Hope I have conveyed my question to you correctly.

 

Yours in Sri Ramakrishna,

 

Br. Vinayaka.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " S.N. Sastri " <sn.sastri wrote:

>

> Dear Br. Vinayaka,

> I have not seen anywhere in the upanishads anything on this point.

They do

> not say anything on whether the same tanmatras continue or they go on

> changing.

> S.N.Sastri

 

================

 

namaskAram SrI SAstri gAru,

 

mahASaya, doesn't SrI Sankara seem to refute the view of pUrvapakshin

that the tanmAtras are easily available anywhere and hence the organs

alone depart to take next birth wherein new tanmAtras are taken up by

these departed organs?

 

SrI Sankara in his brahma sUtra bhAshya seems to anticipate the

possible objections from pUrvapakshin. In the same way, he himself

says that such an argument of pUrvapakshin to say that all the subtle

elements do not go with the organs is unfounded.

 

AchArya refutes the views of all other darshanas by saying that they

are contradicted by Sruti as I have quoted in the post:

advaitin/message/37948

 

In spite of that, if we say that the tanmAtras change all the time, we

would find *no reason* in denying the thesis(of pUrvapakshin) that the

organs alone go with the departed soul and that these organs can take

up the new subtle elements when they take up a new gross body. Thus we

would be contradicting Sri Sankara directly who refuted such a view!

If the respected members here show some other possibility of

establishing SrI Sankara's thesis along side of accepting a continuous

change in tanmAtras, I would be highly delighted to know it.

 

Nonetheless, if we say that the tanmAtras of a subtle body keep

changing continuously, such an exchange doesn't bring any change in

the ahamkAra as we never experience such a change in I-ness. But we

experience such a change in the gross body as it is obvious that we

observe its growth and decay. And still we are the same body we think,

because of the unchanging ahamkAra. This ahamkAra reincarnates as long

as it doesn't attain brahmavidyA.

 

One may argue that even our personality is changing everyday. And yes,

it is here that we need to recognize the I-ness that is even behind

our personality. Just asking ourselves, " Whose personality is

changing? " would reveal to us the unchanging " I " . There is absolutely

no change/gradation in ahamkAra since it demonstrates the

self-revealing nature of Atman.

 

Further, no one thinks that he is made up of matter with respect to

the subtle body. Only the I-sense is felt by us and is someone ready

to dare to say that ahamkAra ultimately is made up of subtle elements??

 

 

Kindly correct my mistakes if any.

 

Yours,

Sampath

 

 

>