mahAvAkyaratnAvaliH- Translation No.24

[Guest guest]

Dear Shri Richard,

You have asked a very good question.

In the mahAvAkya in question Rudra stands for Siva.

But it has to be pointed out that brahmA, vishNu and Siva are not three

different Gods. They are all the one supreme brahman considered as

associated with each one of the three guNas.

Another important feature is that when a particular hymn is in praise of

say, vishNu, he is described as supreme and the other two as subordinate to

him.

In other places one of them is described as the creator, sustainer and

dissolver of the world. For example in the mantra for invoking Lord Ganesha,

Ganesha is described as the creator, sustainer and dissolver of the

universe. (viSvotpatti-vipatti-samsthitikaraH). The idea is to depict the

particular god who is being worshipped by a particular hymn or mantra as

brahman itself and therefore the creator, sustainer and dissolver. In

Sivanandalahari, Lord Siva is praised as the highest, in Saundaryalahari the

Devi is praised as the highest. In one hymn Sri Sankara says " I know no God

other than Guha (Subrahmanya) " .

Saivites consider Siva to be supreme, Vaishnavaites consider VishNu to be

supreme. In the bhAgavata purANa Siva is depicted as the foremost among the

devotees of vishNu. In this purANa in one place VishNu says that Siva and

brahma arenot different from him.

Thus the idea is that all the gods worshipped are none other than brahman.

Only the names are different.

In the Lalitasahasranama, in addition to creation, sustenance and

dissolution, two more functions are mentioned after dissolution. These are

concealment (tirodhAna) and blessing (anugraha).. The gods for these are

named, respectively, ISvara and Sadasiva. This is where the name sadasiva is

given this special significane. Normally Sadasiva is used as a synonym for

Siva. Siva means auspicious and Sadasiva means'ever auspicious'.

 

This may not be accepted by those who hold sectarian views. There are people

who will never worship Siva and there are others who never worship vishNu.

They will not accept what I have said above. But the above is the view

according to advita Acharyas.

 

S.N.Sastri

 

Question: Isn't Rudra another name for Shiva?

 

The Shaivites believe it is Shiva alone who is the Supreme and, " This

Lord Shiva, who is completely independent (svatantra), has the

diversity of creation and destruction existing in His own nature "

(quote from a Kashmir Shaivism text by Abhinavagupta)

 

To put it in simple terms with my limited understanding (and obviously

I'm not being modest here) Shiva is similar to Brahman except Shiva

creates change, if looked at from one perspective, and is changeless

if looked at the perspective that it is all He.

 

Also Shiva is said to create and destroy Sadashiva. Would the latter

be what has been called Rudra?

 

All replies and answers will be appreciated.

 

Richard

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear S.N.Sastri,

 

Thank you for your informative answers to my questions. They clarified

things for me.

 

I realize I am out of my element in this group but if during my

reading a question arises and I can't find the answer through other

means, someone from this learned group is usually gracious enough to

supply an answer.

 

Best wishes,

Richard

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " S.N. Sastri " <sn.sastri wrote:

 

praNAmaH SrI Sastriji,

mahASaya,

 

You Wrote:

> This may not be accepted by those who hold sectarian views. There

are people

> who will never worship Siva and there are others who never worship

vishNu.

> They will not accept what I have said above. But the above is the view

> according to advita Acharyas.

 

## SrI Ramakrishna paramahamsa used to tell the story of a bigot

called Ghantakarna.

 

There was a man who worshiped Siva but hated all the other deities.

One day Siva appeared to him and said, " I shall never be pleased with

you so long as you hate other gods. " But the man was inexorable. After

a few days Siva again appeared to him. This time He appeared as

Hari-Hara--a form, of which one half was Siva and the other Vishnu. At

this the man was half-pleased and half-displeased. He laid offerings

on the side representing Siva, but nothing on that representing

Vishnu. When he offered the burning incense to Siva, his beloved form

of the Deity, he was audacious enough to press the nostrils of Vishnu

lest he should inhale the fragrance. Then Siva said: " Your bigotry is

ineradicable. By assuming this dual aspect I tried to convince you

that all gods and goddesses are but the various aspects of the One

Being. You have not taken the lesson in good part, and you will have

to suffer for your bigotry. Long must you suffer for this. " The man

went away and retired to a village. He soon developed into a great

hater of Vishnu. On coming to know this peculiarity of his, the

children of the village began to tease him by uttering the name of

Vishnu within his hearing. Vexed by this, the man hung two bells on

his ears, and when the boys cried out, " Vishnu, Vishnu " , he would ring

the bells violently and make those names inaudible to his ears. An

thus he came to be known by the name Ghantakarna or the Bell-eared. :-))

 

YOURS,

SAMPATH.

[Guest guest]

-Thank you, this helps me alot. I do not hate other Gods but was

feeling a bit like, if I welcome other Gods other than Siva am I

abandoning Siva? I guess not, so this helps alot.-- In

advaitin , " paramahamsavivekananda "

<paramahamsavivekananda wrote:

>

> advaitin , " S.N. Sastri " <sn.sastri@> wrote:

>

> praNAmaH SrI Sastriji,

> mahASaya,

>

> You Wrote:

> > This may not be accepted by those who hold sectarian views. There

> are people

> > who will never worship Siva and there are others who never worship

> vishNu.

> > They will not accept what I have said above. But the above is the view

> > according to advita Acharyas.

>

> ## SrI Ramakrishna paramahamsa used to tell the story of a bigot

> called Ghantakarna.

>

> There was a man who worshiped Siva but hated all the other deities.

> One day Siva appeared to him and said, " I shall never be pleased with

> you so long as you hate other gods. " But the man was inexorable. After

> a few days Siva again appeared to him. This time He appeared as

> Hari-Hara--a form, of which one half was Siva and the other Vishnu. At

> this the man was half-pleased and half-displeased. He laid offerings

> on the side representing Siva, but nothing on that representing

> Vishnu. When he offered the burning incense to Siva, his beloved form

> of the Deity, he was audacious enough to press the nostrils of Vishnu

> lest he should inhale the fragrance. Then Siva said: " Your bigotry is

> ineradicable. By assuming this dual aspect I tried to convince you

> that all gods and goddesses are but the various aspects of the One

> Being. You have not taken the lesson in good part, and you will have

> to suffer for your bigotry. Long must you suffer for this. " The man

> went away and retired to a village. He soon developed into a great

> hater of Vishnu. On coming to know this peculiarity of his, the

> children of the village began to tease him by uttering the name of

> Vishnu within his hearing. Vexed by this, the man hung two bells on

> his ears, and when the boys cried out, " Vishnu, Vishnu " , he would ring

> the bells violently and make those names inaudible to his ears. An

> thus he came to be known by the name Ghantakarna or the Bell-eared. :-))

>

> YOURS,

> SAMPATH.

>

[Guest guest]

There

are people

> who will never worship Siva and there are others who

never worship

vishNu.

> They will not accept what I have said above.

 

Siva and vishNu and all the deities seem to be

aspects of Brahman that carry certain qualities. I

wonder if an individual jiva will want to worship that

deity who has the qualities of the jiva?

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hari Om,

Steve Stocker ji,

Pranams.

The issue you have regarding the position of Deities in Advaita

Vedanta is pivotal and deserves elaborate discussions. First of all

we have to clearly understand the difference between the Devatas and

Iswara. Iswara is Upahita caitanya, or the Maya Sabalita Caitanya,

the first causal Being, who assumes his form at his own volition (by

the Viksepa Sakti of Maya). He is Ekam Evam Advitiyam Again. Such a

Sa'Guna Iswara is omni present, Omnipotent and Omniscient. Bagavad

Pada calls this Saguna Iswara as Narayana or Vasudeva. Even while

refuting the PancarAtra school Acharya clearly insists on the view

that Vasudeva as the Supreme Being. He is jagat kArana. He creates

the world with Nirvisesa Brahman (his own aspect) as the upAdAna

kArana. He as the controller of his own Maya

(Sv.Up) contemplates its Avarana Sakti, to 'condition' the pure

conscious with the Antahkarana. Deities are those with antahkarana

which as an adjunt limits their Caitanya. In the Srsti krama,

PrajApati is said to have had the desire to create the world; that

desire which was due to his 'mind' which he expressed as

'Vak'. This Vak manifested itself to names and forms that

conglomerated the world. Sabda Brahma Vadins assert that the world

is nothing but Sabda.

 

Here Siva Vishnu and Brahma represent three Gunas, where Vishnu is

Suddha sattva. others are misra Sattva devatas. for the tranquility

of Mind, satva is prescribed to be meditated upon. The sAkAra Suddha

tattva, the Visnu tattva is the reality that exists in its pure

form. In ParamArta sAra, AdiSesa with repeated references to

Vasudeva, Hari etc elaborates on the doxology of Vishnu, alongside

the its significant appellations. Adisesa the pre-Gaudapada Advaitin

offers all epithets to Vishnu, conveying the appropriatness to

appeal Vishnu as the sole refuge. Vasudeva the Saguna Iswara, is the

inner Self, antharyami of all devatas and Jivas. Bagavad pada in Br.

Up Bashya in AntharyAmi brahmana calls the inner Self as all

pervading Narayana. The Final end is the Supreme Cause.

Shankaracarya refers the final resort as 'paramam Vaishnavam Padam'

and comments the term Vaishnavam to 'Vasudevam' iti.