vijnAnavAda and advaita

[Guest guest]

--- ombhurbhuva <ombhurbhuva wrote:

 

>

> I am taking as text Brh.Up.II.iv.11,12 and

> Shankara's comm.

> What is the primal situation that we are cast into

> according to Sutra 11?

>.

 

Michel PraNAms.

 

Yes you are right - I do not see any disagreements

from what I wrote and your notes. Brahman or self as

defined is janma,sthiti and laya kaaraNam, as

emphasized also in the maitreyii Brahmana that you

have quoted. Hence the world as samaShTi is projected

on Brahman due to Maaya shakti - Hence it is adhyaasa

and underlying truth is Brahman without any

modifications. Hence objects and the world is

projection of the total mind - Brahman with total mind

is Iswara.

 

The point of discussion is with reference to the

vyaShTi mind or individual mind - Yes it is organ. But

it is also a reflective medium through which pramaa or

knowledge takes through chidaabhaasa (ahankaara). I

discussed how the pramaa takes place - that the mind

gathers the input from the senses which are the

attributes of the objects (since substantive is

Brahman which is beyond senses) - pramaa is

modification of the mind (as idam vRitti) for

cognitive process to take place.

 

Question I posed was if the individual mind has gone

to sleep - is there world from the point of the

observer. Yes there is from the point of total mind

based on shaastra, but as individuals we cannot

perceive the total mind. From the individual mind, the

problem is indeterminate - first the ahankaara that

pramaata himself is folded and second the perceptions

through the senses are also folded. Hence world is or

world is not cannot be established other than by

shastra pramaaNa. Hence I mentioned about mantaras 5

and 6 of Mandukya. From advaita point - the world as

seen is unreal any way - satya anRita mithuniikaraNam

adhyaasam - mixing of real (Brahman) and unreal(names

and forms) is adhyaasa. Hence it is anirvacaniiya even

when the jiiva's miind is awake, as the discussion is

now going on.

 

Now from the point of totality too - Brahman is one

without a second and any projection of plurality is by

maayaa - and that maayaa is ontologically not real

either. Hence world is real only as Brahman but not

real from the point of apparent projection due to

maaya. But within vyavahaara, the world is as real as

the observer of the world or as real the orgons or

upaadhiis as you mentioned .

 

I do not think any of this is contradicted by Vedanta

paribhaaSha. If so I would like to know.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

[Guest guest]

advaitin , ombhurbhuva <ombhurbhuva wrote:

 

> This is a difficult passage but the gist of it is, I think, the

> following. The object is simply the object as smelt, tasted, heard

etc.

> There are not two categories of object (a) the felt, sensed object

(b) the

> occult object. To be an object is to be an object-for-me. The

object is

> the sensible, tastable, smellable etc. according to whatever senses

apply

> to it. The organs are in that sense wrapped up in the objects and

hence

> there is no special care to be taken in their progressive dissolving

back

> into pure consciousness.

 

Dear Advaitins,

 

Swami Vivekananda says:

 

" When men are in a certain frame of mind, they see this very existence

as the earth, as the sun, the moon, the stars; and all those who are

in the same state of mind see the same things. Between you and me

there may be millions of beings on different planes of existence. They

will never see us, nor we them; we only see those who are in the same

state of mind and on the same plane with us. Those musical instruments

respond which have the same attunement of vibration, as it were; if

the state of vibration, which they call " man-vibration " , should be

changed, no longer would men be seen here; the whole " man-universe "

would vanish, and instead of that, other scenery would come before us,

perhaps gods and the god-universe, or perhaps, for the wicked man,

devils and the diabolic world; but all would be only different views

of the one universe. It is this universe which, from the human plane,

is seen as the earth, the sun, the moon, the stars, and all such

things — it is this very universe which, seen from the plane of

wickedness, appears as a place of punishment. And this very universe

is seen as heaven by those who want to see it as heaven. Those who

have been dreaming of going to a God who is sitting on a throne, and

of standing there praising Him all their lives, when they die, will

simply see a vision of what they have in their minds; this very

universe will simply change into a vast heaven, with all sorts of

winged beings flying about and a God sitting on a throne. These

heavens are all of man's own making. So what the dualist says is true,

says the Advaitin, but it is all simply of his own making. "

 

Swami Shivananda says:

 

" The astral plane, or Bhuvarloka, interpenetrates the earth plane and

extends for some distance beyond it. The mental plane interpenetrates

the astral but also extends further into space than does the latter.

The vibrations of the astral world are more rapid or quicker than

those of the physical plane. The vibrations of the mental plane are

more rapid or quicker than those of the astral plane. The vibrations

of the Satyaloka are more rapid or quicker than those of the mental

plane. In each plane the soul develops a new and higher sense of power.

 

When you pass from one plane to another you do not **move in space**.

You simply change your consciousness. You change your focus of

consciousness. You can have different sorts of vision through the

telescope or microscope by using lenses of different degrees of

potency or power. You have got different vehicles within yourself

which correspond to different planes and which can function in

different planes. "

 

http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/The_Seven_Planes/id/9824

 

Here I would like to ask (as mentioned by sadaji earlier), Is there

any real object whose nature can be strictly defined and which lies

'out there' and exists 'independent of mind'?

 

Shankara also says in sUtra bhAshya:

 

" Fictitiously **imagined** by avidyA as though they were identical

with the omniscient lord, name and form **undefinable** either as

(ishwara)himself of distinct from Him, the cause of this manifold

world of mundane life, are called in the shruti and smriti, mAyA,

causal potentiality and prakriti. "

 

S.Bh.2-1-14

 

Considering all these can't we say that we perceive same brahman or

consciousness as objects/name and form according to our own state of

mind/level of evolution which gets sublated for each jiva(?) on the

dawn of knowledge?

 

Or as I had quoted sometime earlier, do we have to accept that

according to vEdAnta there is no 'absolute and total return' of the

universe to its source in time. Only 'individuals' return at the

completion of their evolution; i.e. when they attain liberation?

 

Comments are welcome.

 

Yours in Sri Ramakrishna,

 

Br. Vinayaka.