Need for a proper teacher

[Guest guest]

This is with reference to some of the points raised under this subject.

 

The word shrotriya means 'one who is well-versed in the shruti' To become a

shrotriya it is not necessary that one should have learnt the shruti under a

teacher in this birth. Br. up. 4.4.2 says that when a person dies his subtle

body carries with it 'knowledge, work and past experience'. So what was

studied in past births comes with the subtle body in the present birth. In

his bhAshya on this mantra Sri Sankara refers to child prodigies and says

that such exceptional proficiency in a certain field is traceable to the

proficiency acquired by that jIva in past births. This idea is also

contained in the gIta. So when a person like Bhagavan Ramana is born he has

in him what he learnt in past births. It is said that when vedAntic pandits

went to Ramana he would tell them some thing and they would say, " This is

exactly what the upanishad says " . But he would reply that he had not read

any upanishad. Thus he knew what was in the shruti because of what he had

learnt in past births. He can therefore be said to be a shrotriya. The

attainment of enlightenment is the result of gradual spiritual progress over

innumerable births. This is clearly stated in the bhAshya on gItA,

7.19—Itis only after many births that a person acquires jnAna. So we

should not

look at the present birth alone.

 

As regards teaching through silence, people have testified that when they

went to the maharshi's presence their doubts were answered. How can we

ignore this? There are instances when people went to Swami Chandrasekhara

Bharati of Sringeri mutt and he knew what they had come for without their

telling them. Spiritually evolved people have such powers. So communicating

to the mind of another person directly is also possible for them. It would

be taking a very materialistic view to deny it.

 

Tradition holds that Dakshinamurty who was God Shiva Himself taught his four

disciples who were all sages through silence, because they had the capacity

to receive such instruction. Swami Vidyaranya, in his Sankara digvijaya says

that the same Dakshinamurty incarnated as Sri Sankara Bhagavatpada but he

gave up silence as a means of teaching because people in this world in

general do not have the capacity to receive teaching through silence. Bu

there still may be gurus like Ramana Maharshi who could teach through

silence as some have testified.

 

S.N.Sastri

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

kuntimaddi sadananda wrote:

> Shree Ramesh - thanks for the input - from my

> understanding advaita experience in deep sleep and NS

> cannot be different otherwise we are making dvaita in

> advaita experience.

 

*Dear Sada-Ji:

 

What you say above is true. From the absolute perspective, the two (deep

sleep and nirvikalpa samadhi) are not different. From the vyavahaara

perspective, the two appear to be different because of the nature and

state of the mind. The mind infers the bliss in deep sleep after having

awakened (I slept happily). After nirvikalpa samadhi, the mind need not

infer bliss as it consciously knows itself as bliss or having bliss as

its source.

 

The difference between deep sleep and nirvikalpa samadhi is from the

perspective of the mind. After deep sleep, mind upon awakening infers

continuity of consciousness. After nirvikalpa samadhi, there is no need

to infer continuity of consciousness as that continuity is fully known

not broken to begin with. Although the nondual experience of bliss is

identical in deep sleep and nirvikalpa samadhi, nondual realization

requires an awakened quality of consciousness in order to enjoy the

bliss as one's very nature.

 

Here is an example: If I am drinking lemonade but am reading the

newspaper, after finishing the glass, I do not recall drinking it. I say

to myself, I must have had this lemonade, because my stomach is full and

the glass is empty. That is like saying after getting up in the morning,

" I slept well and feel refreshed " .

 

However, if I am drinking the lemonade and consciously quenching my

thirst and tasting the sweetness of the honey in it, then I need not

infer afterwards that I must have drank the lemonade because the glass

is empty and my stomach is full. I know I drank the lemonade and

consciously enjoyed it and there still may be that residual taste of

enjoyment. So the need to speculate is not there because I know that I

drank the lemonade and enjoyed the bliss. That is like nirvikalpa samadhi.

 

Although deep sleep and nirvikalpa samadhi are essentially the same,

they are also opposite to each other. One is deep sleep and the other is

Deep Awake. The Deep Awake consumes the deep sleep, includes the deep

sleep, assimilates the deep sleep, and is the deep sleep. And yet it is

Deep Awake, fullness of consciousness of pure being, from the point of

entering the deep sleep and coming out of deep sleep, unbroken

continuity made explicit and not subject to inference.

 

The analysis of deep sleep is considered crucial in Advaita as it gives

the clue to the mystery of the Self.

 

Happy Holidays to everyone.

 

Namaste and love to all

Harsha*

[Guest guest]

Bhaskarji - PraNAms

 

Shree Shastriji answered beautifully about some rare

teachers and students who can teach or learn in

silence and about shotriam too. There is not too much

I can add to it but just address the questions you

have raised just from my point.

 

 

--- bhaskar.yr wrote:

 

> bhaskar :

>

> Yes, sarvajnA does not mean he knows

> everything...but at the same time

> atleast I think he would be in a position to teach

> the subject (Atma jnAna)

> in which he has mastery :-))

 

Bhaskarji - I am sure you must have lot of people who

know the subject but they are sometimes the worst

teachers. One can have faith in that teacher and with

the teaching that 'you are that' and 'not this that

you think', is sufficient as in the case of

Nisargadatta Maharaj - to realize - Of course as

Shastriji pointed out the purity of the mind, saadhana

chatushTaya, must have been acquired in the past

lives, as in sapta vaDanyaaya - the logic of 7 vaDAs.

If one has already eaten 6 vaDas at home, one more

vaDa in this life is stuffiest for him to be full. But

if you not eaten before, you have to eat six vaDas

before you can eat the seventh one to be completely

full.

 

'bahuunaam janmanaamante jnaanavaan mam prapadyate'

says Krishna to that effect.

 

 

..To become brahmanishTa

> whether shrOtrIyatva or shAstrajnAna is required or

> not??

 

To become brahma nishTa - sravanam is required not

necessarily shotriam. Everybody is qualified to hear

the teaching but only some are qualified to study the

shaastras - is it not - at least according to Vedic

tradition. Everybody can realize - but few are

qualified to teach. Those who are gone through the

adhyaaropa-apavaada will be able to guide the students

properly. It is like many can get Ph.Ds but not all

can guide the others towards Ph.D.s If this works in

simple objective knowledge, it is much more for

knowledge of all knowledge, is it not?

 

For shravaNam to work - faith in the teacher is

essential - this is what happened in the case of

Nisargadatta Maharaj if you read his biography.

 

Now I can go back to mind my mind!

 

Hari Om

Sadananda

[Guest guest]

Shastriji :

 

First, let me congratulate you on taking an active participation in

the group forum and fielding the questions from members with such

ease , simplicity and apt quotations from scriptural sources. We are

really in 'awe' of your wonderful presence ....

 

now , Shastriji , may i add a few points to your erudite commentary

on the method of Teaching through Silence ! The word 'Mauna' comes

from the root word 'muni' which refers to a Sage who

practices 'silence' - if one reads the upanishads , it is is an

unwritten rule that a student of Brahmavidya should

practice 'silence' peridically ! ( chandogya upanishads)

 

Silence does not mean absence of 'speech' - it means 'austerity' of

speech - it means a period of time when a sadhak withdraws from the

external world and gets into a state of introspection and

reflection . It is a period of time when the spiritual seeker

completes abandons all ego sense ( i-ness or mamakara) and gets into

a state of oneness of Self!

 

in fact , Bhagwan Ramana maharishi described Silence thus :

 

" Silence is ever-speaking; it is a perennial flow of language; it

is interrupted by speaking. These words obstruct that mute language.

There is electricity flowing in a wire. With resistance to its

passage, it glows as a lamp or revolves as a fan. In the wire it

remains as electric energy. Similarly also, silence is the eternal

flow of languageobstructed by words. . . . What one fails to know by

conversation extending to several years can be known in a trice in

Silence, or in front of Silence - e.g., Dakshinamurti, and his four

disciples. That is the highest and most effective language. "

(Talk 246.))

 

In this context Sri Ramana also NARRATED a famous story .... here it

goes ...

 

There is an old story, which demonstrates the power of the Guru's

silence. Tattvaraya composed a Bharani, a kind of poetic composition

in Tamil, in honour of his Guru Swarupananda, and convened an

assembly of learned Pandits (pundits) to hear the work and assess

its value.

 

The Pandits raised the objection that a Bharani was only composed in

honour of great heroes capable of killing a thousand elephants in

battle and that it was not in order to compose such a work in honour

of an ascetic.

 

Thereupon the author said, " Let us all go to my Guru and we shall

have this matter settled there. "

 

They went to the Guru and, after they had all taken their seats, the

author told his Guru the purpose of their visit. The Guru sat silent

and all the others also remained in mouna (silence). The whole day

passed, the night came, and some more days and nights, and yet all

sat there silently, no thought at all occurring to any of them and

nobody thinking or asking why they had come there. After three or

four days like this, the Guru moved his mind a bit, and the people

assembled immediately regained their thought activity. They then

declared, `Conquering a thousand elephants is nothing beside this

Guru's power to conquer the rutting elephants of all our egos put

together. So certainly he deserves the Bharani in his honour! "

 

PLEASE VISIT

 

http://www.hinduism.co.za/silent.htm

 

to read about the power of teaching through Silence!

 

thus , my friends , Mauna is not 'absence of speech' .... Mauna is a

state beyond speech and thought " it is living without the ego

sense . " MAUNA IS THUS MORE ELOQUENT THAN SPEECH!

 

When Sri Ramana spoke , it was 'paravani ' not vaikhari !

 

Mauna vyakhya prakatita Parabrahma tatvam!

 

A verse in Vivekachudamani goes thus :

 

" Vaagvaikharee, Sabdajharee, Saastra vyakhyana kausalam

Vaidushyam, Vidushaam, Tadvad-bhuktaye, Na tu mukataye. " ( verse 60)

 

" Loud speech consisting of a shower of words, the skill

in expounding the scriptures, and likewise erudition

- these merely bring on a little personal enjoyment

to the scholar, but are no good for liberation. "

 

( " Bhukti " also means the earning of one's bread. Erudition

helps in earning one's bread - )

 

 

Mauna , please read Subbuji's series on Sri Dakshinamurthystrom in

the archives .... one will get a good idea of what constitutes

Silent Teaching !

 

WITH THIS POST , I AM ALSO GOING ON AN INNER PILGRIMAGE TILL THE NEW

YEAR !

 

 

wishing you all a very happy and wonderful Holiday season !

 

ps thank you shastriji once again for all your divine and knowledge

filled posts . My ananta koti pranaams to your lotus feet ! you are

one of my 24 gurus!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-- In advaitin , " S.N. Sastri " <sn.sastri wrote:

>

> This is with reference to some of the points raised under this

subject.

>

> The word shrotriya means 'one who is well-versed in the shruti' To

become a

> shrotriya it is not necessary that one should have learnt the

shruti under a

> teacher in this birth.

[Guest guest]

hare krishna, namaskarams,

 

a beutifully written post

 

<< " S.N. Sastri " <advaitin > wrote:

attainment of enlightenment is the result of gradual spiritual progress over

innumerable births. This is clearly stated in the bhAshya on gItA,

7.19—Itis only after many births that a person acquires jnAna. So we

should not

look at the present birth alone.>>

 

i only wish to add the following to respected Sri Sastry's post-from Sri

Dayanada Swamyji's lecture.

 

" Self knowledge/enlightenment-it is an unvieling process,unfolding-the darshan

of the lord like the sculptor chipping away the unwanted pieces-all the time

seeing the lord inside-removing all desires, ahankara etc-to reveal yourself-

your atma -the lord always, already there inside- the darshan of your own true

nature- the self " - which is possible only with the grace of the lord.

All scriptural knowledge can only help you do this.

 

baskaran.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

BASKARAN.C.S

 

 

 

5, 50, 500, 5000 - Store N number of mails in your inbox.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Namaste Vaibhav-ji and all.

 

Your message 38669 and input by others on this interesting topic of

teaching through silence.

 

In advaitic contemplation/reflection, where spontaneous insights occur,

there is no teacher other than the internal silence - the eternal

witenss.

 

The contemplation may be on what is heard from teachers or what is read

from scriptures. Yet, unmistakably, the words undergo a metamorphosis

in silence and acquire additional dimensions to blossom forth finally

as Knowledge. So, silence definiely is a teacher non-pareil.

 

In conclusion, it is Grace that finally liberates and it is available

in abundance for those who yearn for it. It need not appear in the

physical form of a guru.

 

PraNAms.

 

Madathil Nair