Spiritual practices leading to Self-Realization (or not?)

[Guest guest]

Dear Steve:

 

On your last posting, at some point you wrote:

.... " At one time I believed that various " spiritual practices " would

somehow get me to " enlightenment " or " self-realization " . I no longer do...

 

If you don't mind (how could you?) I'd like to ask you what do you

mean by this statement. At a first glance it seems to me that in it

there are some words like " spiritual practices " and " self-realization'

that I'm not sure what you meant by them.

 

Isn't the dissolution of vasanas leading to the dissolution of

ignorance in itself a practice? We all know that we ARE the self, and

for some the intellectual knowledge of that is enough, is it for you?

I believe that even the pursuit of money-making, sex, drugs (and

rock'n'roll) or a comfortable life, is also a practice, for many, to

attain self-realization, meaning by that, feeling fullfilled and

happy. But we all know that these kind of " practices " perpetuate

themselves creating endless cycles of " hapiness/suffering " ; instead,

the spiritual sadhana carries in itself the germs of its own

destruction (like the Mission Impossible tapes!)

On the other side, I do agree with you that no spiritual practice will

get " you " to enlightenment, because for enlightenment to happen, you

need to " not be there " !

 

I don't recall reading anything from Shankara against spiritual

sadhana, do you?

Would you please expand on your understanding of that part of your

posting?

 

Best for All,

Mouna

[Guest guest]

Hello Mouna!

 

instead,

the spiritual sadhana carries in itself the germs of

its own

destruction (like the Mission Impossible tapes!)

 

Mouna, spiritual practices, mediation etc., separated

me from life. For me, it's necessary to be Now, with

what's going on internally/externally (I make that

dichotomy simply for purposes of discussion!) and

related to that, aware of that. Maybe that's a

spiritual practice, but I don't consider it as such.

In my mind I don't separate " spiritual " from

" material " except for purposes of discussion. The

dichotomies got to be absurd for me. " Oh, here I am.

Now I'm 'meditating'. " " Okay, now, I'm working. " " Now

I'm asking 'who am I?'. This all seemed fractured,

splintered. The different practices seemed--to me,

now--overlays on what was otherwise a simple flow:

sometimes a bumpy ride, sometimes grief, sometimes

joy, sometimes a descent into Hades, sometimes a fun

ride up to Mount Olympus, sometimes just sitting here

wondering what it's all about and being aware of the

fact that I, the perceiver of all that, cannot be

perceived...

 

The deliberate effort to do " spiritual practice " , set

apart time for it, compartmentalize it...THAT will

simply not work for me! Best wishes, Steve

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hello Steve,

 

You said (message #39009, Thu Jan 17): " spiritual sadhana carries in

itself the germs of its own destruction (like the Mission Impossible

tapes!) "

 

Appended below is a piece of verse, saying much the same thing about

the spiritual practice of thinking about truth.

 

Ananda

 

 

Thinking about truth

--------------------

 

All thought of truth is pesticide:

which, when its killing job is done,

must finally destroy itself

and leave no tainted residue.

 

If not, it too becomes a pest

that needs more killing pesticide.

And thus the pestilential thought

of ignorance that must be killed

keeps ignorantly thinking on.

 

Since thought is only that which seems,

it can't itself know anything,

nor can it somehow fail to know.

 

Thought can't be 'true' nor 'ignorant'.

These words just don't apply to it.

 

Though thought of truth thinks otherwise,

there is in truth no 'ignorance'.

 

There's only that which knows all thoughts:

in which all thoughts become dissolved,

as they are known and undersood.

 

Beneath all seeming thoughts that are

thought to be 'true' or 'ignorant',

there's only knowledge: nothing else

but pure, untainted consciousness.

 

In this, there is no residue.

There's only truth and nothing else.