Jump to content
IndiaDivine.org

Awareness, enlightenment and death

Rate this topic


Guest guest

Recommended Posts

This is my first post here, and thus may I start by saying hello to

everyone here. Namaste!

 

Very recently I have been reading the books of Jean Klein. I also

started to read Ranjit Maharaj. I have finaly found books of

Atmananda Krishna Menon which I have ordered this morning.

 

I am very happy to know that Sri Ananda Wood writes here. I'm in good

company.

 

I have also ordered Michael Langford's book: THE MOST DIRECT AND

RAPID MEANS TO ETERNAL BLISS.

 

I didn't find any comments on his awareness watching awareness on

this group.

 

Ranjit Maharaj often compares awareness devoid of illusion to deep

sleep. I realize that awareness is there in deep sleep, because one

knows on awakening if he slept well, or that a noise will awaken one

from sleep. Consequently, awareness exist in deep sleep.

 

My first question is since in deep sleep, the ego is

somewhat " absent " , and pure awareness is thus, more or less,

experienced, does the death of the physical body, or the death of the

ego while still having a body, results in this deep sleep " state " of

awareness.

 

It would then mean that our Self, Awareness is similar to a comatic

state. At first glance, not very interesting...no?

 

 

 

Sort of awareness unaware of Itself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

List Moderators' Note: Welcome to the list and we look forward to our

participation. Please do not include the entire message of the previous poster

while sending your reply. Cut and paste necessary part as appropriate. Other

members are also requested to follow these guidelines.

====================

 

I just want to add a little to my post.

 

If one is enlightened, a Jnani, he sees through illusion. Thus I do

not know if in deep sleep he is also in this " comatic " state or he is

fully aware.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

advaitin , " nonduel " <nonduel wrote:

>

Consequently, awareness exist in deep sleep.

>

> My first question is since in deep sleep, the ego is

> somewhat " absent " , and pure awareness is thus, more or less,

> experienced, does the death of the physical body, or the death of the

> ego while still having a body, results in this deep sleep " state " of

> awareness.

>

> It would then mean that our Self, Awareness is similar to a comatic

> state. At first glance, not very interesting...no?

 

> Sort of awareness unaware of Itself.

 

Namaste,IMHO,

 

Deep sleep has an ego dreaming a continous thought of ignorance.

 

A jivanmukta has the awareness of the purified vijnanamayakos and the

energy of the sakti...hupa.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

advaitin , " nonduel " <nonduel wrote:

>

>

> I just want to add a little to my post.

>

> If one is enlightened, a Jnani, he sees through illusion. Thus I do

> not know if in deep sleep he is also in this " comatic " state or he

is

> fully aware.

 

Namaste, " nonduel " -ji,

 

You say " he sees through illusion " . Who is this 'he'?

 

Again in the second sentence of yours above, You are saying " he is in

the comatic state " or " he is fully aware " . Who are these 'he'?

 

This analysis will lead one to the observation that there is a mixing-

up of the pAramArthika and the vyAvahArika.

 

In this connection see post #39104.

 

PraNAms to all advaitins.

profvk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

H.N.Sreenivasa Murthy

Pranams to all.

 

advaitin , " hupa_ramdas " <hupa_ram> wrote:

Namaste,IMHO,

>

> Deep sleep has an ego dreaming a continous thought of ignorance.

>

> A jivanmukta has the awareness of the purified vijnanamayakos and the

> energy of the sakti...hupa.

 

Dear Hupa Ramdasji,

 

What you have stated , is it a fact or is it a presumption?

If it is a fact, can it be established as a fact based on common

universal experience (sArvatrika pUrNAnuBava) ?

What have Upanishads and Sri Shankara said in this matter of deep

sleep (sushupti)

IMHO ,What has been stated goes against the experience of deep

sleep.

With warm and respectful regards,

Sreenivasa Murthy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

> Namaste,IMHO,

>

> Deep sleep has an ego dreaming a continous thought of ignorance.

>

> A jivanmukta has the awareness of the purified vijnanamayakos and

the

> energy of the sakti...hupa.

>

 

Namaste,

 

In deep sleep, the ego is dreaming thoughts of ignorance. Then this

obscures Self same as when the ego is awake? The clouds hiding the

sun are there during sleep?

 

A Jivanmukta has pure awareness. Then, and this was my primary

question, unless one is Realized, one is still sleeping, dreaming, in

ignorance, at the death of the physical body.

 

Similar to a dream, one forgets on awakening. Thus at death, one will

forget and still be in ignorance.

 

All the knowledge on liberation that we presently have, will be lost,

on awakening from the dream of the present physical life.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Namaste,

 

Most of this post is missing (39104) by accident, please read post

39108

 

I am clumsily using words to understand Self. Because deep sleep has

been compared to Reality, nonduality, " Pure Awareness " . My

comprehension, consequently, is that it is near Jivanmukta's

awareness.

 

If I understand correctly, then a Realized Self is a coma-

like " state " similar to deep dreamless sleep.

 

 

 

>

> Namaste, " nonduel " -ji,

>

> You say " he sees through illusion " . Who is this 'he'?

>

> Again in the second sentence of yours above, You are saying " he is

in

> the comatic state " or " he is fully aware " . Who are these 'he'?

>

> This analysis will lead one to the observation that there is a

mixing-

> up of the pAramArthika and the vyAvahArika.

>

> In this connection see post #39104.

>

> PraNAms to all advaitins.

> profvk

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

advaitin , " nonduel " <nonduel wrote:

>

 

>

> Namaste,

 

> All the knowledge on liberation that we presently have, will be lost,

> on awakening from the dream of the present physical life.

>

Namaste,

 

As is taught in the Vedanta, within illusion, only tendencies and

attributes survive the death of the body. So a new knowledge will

quickly be obtained in a new 'life'. There is no knowledge of

liberation unless you are liberated..........Hu

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Namaste Hu,

 

And so few " reach " liberation....Why is this so difficult?

 

 

> Namaste,

>

> As is taught in the Vedanta, within illusion, only tendencies and

> attributes survive the death of the body. So a new knowledge will

> quickly be obtained in a new 'life'. There is no knowledge of

> liberation unless you are liberated..........Hu

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

advaitin , " nonduel " <nonduel wrote:

>

> Namaste Hu,

>

> And so few " reach " liberation....Why is this so difficult?

>

>

> > Namaste,

> >

> > As is taught in the Vedanta, within illusion, only tendencies and

> > attributes survive the death of the body. So a new knowledge will

> > quickly be obtained in a new 'life'. There is no knowledge of

> > liberation unless you are liberated..........Hu

 

Namaste,IMO.

 

Samskaras, and attachments.............Hu

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Namaste,

 

In message #39108, Mon Jan 21, Shri Nonduel asked:

 

" I realize that awareness is there in deep sleep, because one knows

on awakening if he slept well, or that a noise will awaken one from

sleep. Consequently, awareness exist in deep sleep.

 

" My first question is since in deep sleep, the ego is

somewhat 'absent', and pure awareness is thus, more or less,

experienced, does the death of the physical body, or the death of the

ego while still having a body, results in this deep sleep 'state' of

awareness.

 

" It would then mean that our Self, Awareness is similar to a comatic

state. At first glance, not very interesting...no? "

 

Deep sleep is that state in which all bodily and mental appearances

have disappeared. In that state of deep sleep, no objects are found

perceived, nor thought or felt, through any body, sense or mind.

There is no bodily, nor sensual, nor mental action producing any

differing or changing appearances.

 

Then what is the content of deep sleep? What is it that we find in

deep sleep, in the absence of all differing and changing appearances?

The only thing that can be found is a knowing that stays somehow

present, even when all differing objects and all changing actions

have disappeared.

 

Deep sleep thus makes us ask questions about a knowing that is

independent of all difference and change. In order to know that

things are different in space, or that states have changed in the

course of time, there must be a knowing which stays present through

the different objects that appear in space and the changing states

that appear in time.

 

That knowing which stays present must be shared in common, by all

differing and changing appearances. In deep sleep, that knowing is

found present all alone, illuminated from within, as its own knowing

light. In dreams, that same knowing illuminates a succession of

imagined appearances, which come and go in mind. In the waking world,

that same knowing illuminates all objects and happenings, as they are

observed to appear in different parts of space and time.

 

That knowing is what stays the same, while all appearances get

changed. It is thus completely unaffected, by all the changes and

differences that it illuminates. In itself, it is entirely

disinterested in all seeming change and difference.

 

But all the interests that we feel arise from just that knowing. That

same knowing is expressed in all our feelings, thoughts and

perceptions as our minds and bodies take part in their dreamt and

waking worlds.

 

All our interests thus arise from just that disinterested knowing

that we can find uncovered in the depth of sleep.

 

So, while we habitually tend to think of deep sleep as 'not very

interesting', a sharper questioning of it can be a way of looking for

a disinterested source from where we derive all our interests in the

physical and mental world.

 

Ananda

Link to comment
Share on other sites

advaitin , " Ananda Wood " <awood wrote:

>

> Namaste,

>

> In message #39108, Mon Jan 21, Shri Nonduel asked:

>

> " I realize that awareness is there in deep sleep, because one knows

> on awakening if he slept well, or that a noise will awaken one from

> sleep. Consequently, awareness exist in deep sleep.

>

> " My first question is since in deep sleep, the ego is

> somewhat 'absent', and pure awareness is thus, more or less,

> experienced, does the death of the physical body, or the death of

the

> ego while still having a body, results in this deep sleep 'state'

of

> awareness.

>

> " It would then mean that our Self, Awareness is similar to a

comatic

> state. At first glance, not very interesting...no? "

 

 

Namaste.

 

To supplement Ananda-ji's reply to this question, may I draw the

attention of 'Non-duel'-ji to the following:?

 

advaitin/message/33434

 

which is Kanchi Acharya's Discourses: KDAS-70

 

and

 

advaitin/message/20482

 

which is on " Sleep, Consciousness and Bliss " .

 

PraNAms to all advaitins.

profvk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Namaste Dear Shri Ananda,

 

QUOTE

 

" " " But all the interests that we feel arise from just that knowing.

That same knowing is expressed in all our feelings, thoughts and

perceptions as our minds and bodies take part in their dreamt and

waking worlds.

 

All our interests thus arise from just that disinterested knowing

that we can find uncovered in the depth of sleep.

 

So, while we habitually tend to think of deep sleep as 'not very

interesting', a sharper questioning of it can be a way of looking for

a disinterested source from where we derive all our interests in the

physical and mental world. " " "

 

Thank you for your reply. From these last comments, and please

correct me if I am wrong, I understand that " all the interests "

sprout from the experience of having a physical body, and from

feelings, thoughts and perceptions of the mind.

 

Or " ....the source from here we derive our interests in the physical

world... " .

 

This source is Brahman, The I AM. But then your post leaves " me " with

a conclusion that without a physical body, no interests. That the

potential is latent.

 

Then, touching Self, one experiences joy, bliss. It leaves me with

the question as to whether this joy, to be experienced, requires a

physical body the mind. Quote: " " " From feelings, thoughts and

perceptions of the mind " " "

 

My PraNAms

Namaste

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Namaste Shri 'nonduel',

 

In message #39238, Fri Jan 25, you say: " Then, touching Self, one

experiences joy, bliss. It leaves me with the question as to whether

this joy, to be experienced, requires a physical body the mind. "

 

As you say, where self is touched, true happiness is found. But how

does one come into touch with oneself?

 

Does one come into touch with oneself in the same way that one body

or one mind comes into touch with another body or another mind in the

world? Clearly not, for then what one touches is a body or a mind

outside, in some physical and mental world.

 

The only way of touching self is to reflect back in. And the

reflection must return from all outward-seeming body into an inmost

depth of knowing where all perceptions, thoughts and feelings are

absorbed by the reflecting mind.

 

Where the reflection is complete, self is at one with self, in its

true nature of non-dual happiness. There self knows self alone: as

unaffected consciousness, whose very being is to know. It knows by

being what it is, as knowing light illuminated from within.

 

That self shines by itself, as its own changeless light. From there

are lit all changing acts, through which our minds, our senses and

our bodies form all changing and differing appearances of world.

 

When self is falsely identified -- as body, sense and mind -- it

wrongly seems to be a 'me'. And this false 'me' believes that its

body, and its senses and its mind are required to experience

happiness.

 

But this false 'me' and its beliefs are confusingly mistaken. Here

happiness becomes confused with bodily and sensual and mental states

that are taken to express it. And this confusion makes it seem that

happiness can only be found by expressing it outwardly, through some

intervening instruments of body, sense or mind.

 

Though happiness is seen expressed in happy states, those happy

states aren't happiness. To find the happiness that's thus expressed,

attention has to turn back in -- beneath all body, sense and mind --

to underlying truth of self, which is at once the source and goal of

all our motivations and our values.

 

It's always there that we return, whenever we fall deep asleep. There

happiness itself is found, though we habitually ignore it, as we keep

chasing its confused and degraded expressions in our bodily, and

sensual and mental activities.

 

Ananda

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...