Absolute Consciousness.

[Guest guest]

When we talk about the Absolute, theoretical knowledge immediately

appears, trying to describe something that can never be experienced

as a factual living. This state of affairs happens because we think

that any absolute is an abstract concept, which is impossible to be

lived and experienced in our everyday living. We forget the saying

of the Buddha " The everyday mind is the Buddha mind " . If we look

deeply in all mystical scriptures from Quran, the good book to Tao

te ching, they all speak about an ultimate Living Experience, which

might be named differently in each mystical scripture. For example,

there is Nirvana of Buddhism, Absolute Consciousness of Vedanta,

God's Face in Islam, Garden of Eden, Kingdom of Heaven and so forth.

 

If this Absolute in these mystical writings is not livable, then

there would have been no use to mention them; unless we look at

these mystical scriptures as philosophies and doctrines.

 

To my mind, the Absolute is a living experience in the life of every

man; but it is not recognized by man, not appreciated and not

recorded, it just happened; due to man's captivation with egoic

worldly living.

 

I will try to point to a living experience that could fit as

Absolute or an ultimate experience.

 

He, who -as a child- has not experienced his daily life through the

Love showering on him from his mother, and does not value this

experience, will never understand anything and will never taste

egolessness.

 

He, who - as a child - while holding his mother's hand did not lose

himself absolutely in the experience of daily life, will never ever

experience the factual living Absolute Consciousness, not the

Theoretical absolute consciousness -that could not be experienced.

 

With your mother holding your hand, your ego is no more; you are in

a state of surrender without a center and your true being is freed

to watch and witness what is taking place in the experience you are

in now.

 

What is experienced in this Experience; it is the absolute

consciousness or unconditioned or unlimited Consciousness because

there is no ego to make it relative or condition or limit.

 

Why it is designated Absolute Consciousness? It is called so because

it is the first thing that man becomes Conscious of –as a child- the

moment he is born.

 

The artificial separation of Consciousness and its contents did not

yet happen because there is still no ego to put conditions or the

description of in and out.

 

The Experience is ONE WHOLE CONSCIOUSNESS WITHOUTOUT ANY CENTER TO

CLAIM IT.

 

What the child is Conscious of had been there since whenever, and

will remain there till whenever even after the disintegration of the

body of the child, because this consciousness is not yet centered in

the body of the child by the created ego and its claims of owning

that body and that consciousness.

 

This Experience is SELF MENTAINED and SELF RELAYANT that also makes

it Absolute. This Experience is Cognizant and Caring of ITSELF, IT

directs the mother to nurse the child, while the child is unaware of

a mother.

 

The child only Experiences two modes, comfort and discomfort.

When discomfort occurs -hunger or cold- it is immediately relieved

by the " mother " so that comfort is established once more.

 

All the child's needs are answered without him asking anything, even

before feeling the need.

 

When the Child grows older he, lives in a true Spiritual Heaven,

where absolute Consciousness is Still Experienced, has not lost it

yet –through the creation of his ego. An Absolute Consciousness or a

true spiritual Heaven. Not the psychological or worldly heaven of

Achievements, possessions and winning contests in life?

 

A Heaven that is Incomparable. An Absolute existence that is free

from the limitation imposed by the ego. A Heaven when we were

egoless children. An Absolute existence when we were egoless

children.

 

A very Simple Heaven; of being at ease, care free and absolutely

contented with eating a bar of chocolate beside your mother. Or

watching pigeons by your mother in a public square. Or watching

ducks in a pond? Or only sitting by your mother while she is

knitting in a cold winter, while you are just watching the dancing

fire in a fireplace.

 

Does this type of Heaven satisfy us? Or it is a child's play?

 

Does it have a heaven in it? Is it simply nonsense to speak of this

as a Heaven? Or as an Absolute Truth?

 

What is described is a True spiritual Heaven, is an Absolute, where

there were no comparisons imposed on it by the " me " ; when I was a

child.

 

This is an Incomparable experience, because I was totally there with

my whole being and out of the intensity of the experience I was no

more, and there was nothing beside what is experienced to compare

it with.

 

If you find that that this experience -just described- Fits an

Absolute, then you have found your lost Treasure. Find the means to

go home and

retrace your steps to go back and live as before -as that child in

hisHeaven or the Absolute Truth.

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " hsin_shang " <hsin_shang wrote:

>

> What is described is a True spiritual Heaven, is an Absolute, where

> there were no comparisons imposed on it by the " me " ; when I was a

> child.

>

> This is an Incomparable experience, because I was totally there with

> my whole being and out of the intensity of the experience I was no

> more, and there was nothing beside what is experienced to compare

> it with.

>

> If you find that that this experience -just described- Fits an

> Absolute, then you have found your lost Treasure. Find the means to

> go home and

> retrace your steps to go back and live as before -as that child in

> his Heaven or the Absolute Truth.

>

 

hariH OM! sir hsin,

 

welcome to our forum.

 

if i may say, an excellent post.

 

what you've descibed here as the Absolute Consciousness in the

experience of the innocent child, i.e. prior to the rise of its

unattenuated ego, is the selfsame primal awareness of the original

mind, no-mind, or empty mind of the buddha's teaching (which, in my

view, was accurately captured preeminently by zen, over the other

buddhist schools).

 

i provide the above caveat, " unattenuated ego, " because i dont

believe the ego was or can ever be destroyed; nor need it be.

neither do i ascribe to its being unmanifest from the very beginning,

at birth--albeit in a most rarified/latent form. nevertheless,

obviously what's required is a significantly stepped down

attenuation/defusion, in order to effectively be capable of

processing and delivering the Absolute Consciousness to the [ego-

Mind's] frontal awareness.

 

if you disagree, it may be a semantical issue, or perhaps an

intuitive one. in any event, relative to the basic insight, either

viewpoint is technically insignificant. i consider, most of all,

that it comes down to a matter of co-existing or being capable of

accepting (kensho), and befriending (satori--equivalent to the

vedantic moksha) [what some would regard as the terror of] pure

Mystery. a " place " dynamic where the reasonable mind is not invited.

 

as you can read between the lines, yes, in addition to yourself, i

have also experienced this...via rinzai zen/zazen for almost 2 years,

culminating when i was 19yo. and, as you mentioned, it's never left

(i'll be 60yo in 5 months).

 

you've initiated an excellent topic here, and there's much i've added

to the above, which needs to be transcribed from a tape recording,

and might take a few days...having to do with organizing in a way i

see as fundamental shift in a few key ideas, resulting in a clearer,

fast-track means to reestablishing the connection to the true Self

(as it's called in vedanta, the paramatman, being equivalent to the

parabrahman or Absolute Consciousness). this latter isn't really in

violation of buddha's stance against metaphysics; it's only a way of

talking, with no real substance to the words or even ideas being

used...since they amount to nothing more than a means to the

experiential end; i.e. " the finger pointing to the moon; and not the

moon. "

 

OM mani padme hum!

 

pranaam,

frank

[Guest guest]

Hello maiello Sir

 

 

>> what you've descibed here as the Absolute Consciousness in the

> experience of the innocent child, i.e. prior to the rise of its

> unattenuated ego, is the selfsame primal awareness of the original

> mind, no-mind, or empty mind of the buddha's teaching (which, in

>my view, was accurately captured preeminently by zen, over the

>other buddhist schools).

 

hsin: Honoured to be in this forum.

Yes, zen (Ch'an) was earlier to recognize it together with Tao.

 

> i provide the above caveat, " unattenuated ego, " because i dont

> believe the ego was or can ever be destroyed; nor need it be.

 

hsin: It dries up from disuse gradually for one stops resoeting to.

 

> neither do i ascribe to its being unmanifest from the very

>beginning, at birth--albeit in a most rarified/latent form.

>nevertheless, obviously what's required is a significantly stepped

>down attenuation/defusion, in order to effectively be capable of

> processing and delivering the Absolute Consciousness to the [ego-

> Mind's] frontal awareness.

 

hsin: Yes a de-flated not inflated ego.

 

> if you disagree, it may be a semantical issue, or perhaps an

> intuitive one. in any event, relative to the basic insight,

>either viewpoint is technically insignificant. i consider, most

>of all, that it comes down to a matter of co-existing or being

>capable of accepting (kensho), and befriending (satori--equivalent

>to the vedantic moksha) [what some would regard as the terror of]

>pure Mystery. a " place " dynamic where the reasonable mind is not

>invited.

 

hsin: Yes, an unconventional mind, a mind not tied up to

conventional life style, or as Rinzai; an irrational mind.

 

> as you can read between the lines, yes, in addition to yourself, i

> have also experienced this...via rinzai zen/zazen for almost 2

>years, culminating when i was 19yo. and, as you mentioned, it's

>never left (i'll be 60yo in 5 months).

 

hsin: In advance, a happy birthday.

 

> you've initiated an excellent topic here, and there's much i've

>added to the above, which needs to be transcribed from a tape

>recording, and might take a few days...having to do with

>organizing in a way i see as fundamental shift in a few key ideas,

>resulting in a clearer, fast-track means to reestablishing the

connection to the true Self (as it's called in vedanta, the

paramatman, being equivalent to the parabrahman or Absolute

>Consciousness). this latter isn't really in violation of buddha's

>stance against metaphysics; it's only a way of talking, with no

>real substance to the words or even ideas being used...since they

>amount to nothing more than a means to the experiential end;

>i.e. " the finger pointing to the moon; and not the moon. "

 

hsin: All man can do is point, nothing more.

 

Greetings and Peace.

[Guest guest]

Namaste Hsin-ji

Humble pranams.

Welcome to the group.

Thougt I would add a few points here -

********

When we talk about the Absolute, theoretical knowledge immediately

appears, trying to describe something that can never be experienced

as a factual living. This state of affairs happens because we think

that any absolute is an abstract concept, which is impossible to be

lived and experienced in our everyday living.

He, who -as a child- has not experienced his daily life through the

Love showering on him from his mother, and does not value this

experience, will never understand anything and will never taste

egolessness.

***********

Shyam:

There is a everyday living experience where we all drop our individuality and

return as it were to our Source _ like a " tired hawk returning to its nest " to

use a scriptiral analogy - sushupti or deep sleep. An analysis of this

objectless experience, with the help of a pramana i.e . means of knowledge -

which is the Shruti vakya, as appropriately expounded by a Guru, is sufficient

to enable us to recognize the Absolute awareness that underlies every

experience.

 

**********

With your mother holding your hand, your ego is no more; you are in a state of

surrender without a center and your true being is freed to watch and witness

what is taking place in the experience you are in now. What is experienced in

this Experience; it is the absolute consciousness or unconditioned or unlimited

Consciousness because there is no ego to make it relative or condition or

limit. Why it is designated Absolute Consciousness? It is called so because it

is the first thing that man becomes Conscious of –as a child- the moment he is

born.The artificial separation of Consciousness and its contents did not yet

happen because there is still no ego to put conditions or the description of in

and out.

**********

Shyam:

Vedanta has a slightly different message - not that " there is stilll no ego " but

the ego is dormant - the i*sense will appear when the child's faculties have

matured to enable its manifestation. After all it is this Ego alone that

resulted in this birth due to an accumulated bundle of karmas. An ego that did

not exist a priori cannot come into existence, nor can the Absolute ever get

conditioned * this is what singularly differentiates vedanta from other

seemingly similar doctrines.

************

A very Simple Heaven; of being at ease, care free and absolutely

contented with eating a bar of chocolate beside your mother. Or

watching pigeons by your mother in a public square. Or watching

ducks in a pond? Or only sitting by your mother while she is

knitting in a cold winter, while you are just watching the dancing

fire in a fireplace.

**************

Shyam:

Certainly very nice use of imagery here - just a small point.

Absence of ignorance is not knowledge. Only a mature ego that has the capacity

to enquire and discriminate between what is real and what appears to be real can

acquire Knowledge. A simpleton may well harbor little pride and may even enjoy a

limited freedom from the invariable complexities that accompany the process of a

ego's maturation - this does not being him closer to Moksha. Knowledge alone is

the antidote for ignorance, and it is this very knowledge that paradoxically

ends that very ego's false notions of separation from the Whole - and then and

only then is there abidance in Knowing.

 

Hari Om

Shri Gurubhyoh namah

Shyam

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

[Guest guest]

Greetings Shayam Sir

> There is a everyday living experience where we all drop our

>individuality and return as it were to our Source _ like a " tired

>hawk returning to its nest " to use a scriptiral analogy - sushupti

>or deep sleep. An analysis of this objectless experience, with the

>help of a pramana i.e means of knowledge - which is the Shruti

>vakya, as appropriately expounded by a Guru, is sufficient to

>enable us to recognize the Absolute awareness that underlies every

>experience.

 

hsin:The problem with deep sleep as an experience where Truth could

be recognized is Its mis-understanding. The misunderstanding comes

from the absence of Phenomena in deep sleep, therefore many would

think that to BE there a Samadi like life is the " goal " , and it does

not make one understand Shaja Samadi. The following is an attempt to

understand deep sleep:

The peace in deep sleep -better termed COMPLETION or the

disappearance of any lack and deficiency or neediness- is due to the

absence of the phenomena on which the ego projects its own world,

therefore the ego has no role, so it vanishes also. The serenity we

feel and the freshness we get from a good deep sleep is due to that.

While waking, when the ego is seen as useless and all faith in the

ego is withdrawn, then the phenomena -man used to project his world

on; to colour; according to the ego needs and desires- will be there

as it was, but with one difference, mainly the absence of any lack

or deficiency and the Original taste of COMPLETION, INTEGRITY and

HARMONY in the EXPERIENCE.

To say that there is Peace; always carries the sense of I am

Peaceful due to the very, very, very subtle sense of claiming.

When Sri Atmananda said " Taking away the objects, I created a deep

sleep state, where I could be known, they saw nothingness in it " He

was referring to the EXPERIENCE, although the word " I " and " I-

principle " which were said by the great Atmananda are absolutely

true. However, i think that it is better to be termed EEXPERIENCE -

as the great Atmananda did- to leave no opportunity for the ego to

very stealthily claim it again. It was called " I " because the

EXPERIENCE -which is the only thing there is- IS SPEAKING ABOUT

ITSELF. This " I " refers to EXPERIENCE and has no relation whatsoever

with our ego and the sense of I-ness we feel. In deep sleep, there

is no sense of I-ness. I remember Ramana Maharshi saying " Even the

sense of " I-ness " at the end will drop away, Leaving the EXPERIENCE

in its OWN GLORY.

Therefore, Sahaja Samadi would be an everyday life experience in

COMPLETION, just simillar when man wakes up from a dream and the

dream is left to continue not terminated.

 

**********

> Shyam:

> Vedanta has a slightly different message - not that " there is

>stilll no ego " but the ego is dormant - the i*sense will appear

>when the child's faculties have matured to enable its

>manifestation. After all it is this Ego alone that resulted in this

>birth due to an accumulated bundle of karmas. An ego that did not

>exist a priori cannot come into existence, nor can the Absolute

>ever get conditioned * this is what singularly differentiates

>vedanta from other seemingly similar doctrines.

 

hsin: To carry the seed of ignorance due to re-incarnation???

Re-incarnation, could it be an explanation???? Could it be an idea?

No need to re-incarnate again, but if we carry re-incarnation as a

true seed, as a fact, as a firm belief, it might hinder the process

of going home and remaining home.

************

 

> Shyam:

> Certainly very nice use of imagery here - just a small point.

> Absence of ignorance is not knowledge. Only a mature ego that has

>the capacity to enquire and discriminate between what is real and

>what appears to be real can acquire Knowledge. A simpleton may well

>harbor little pride and may even enjoy a limited freedom from the

>invariable complexities that accompany the process of a ego's

>maturation - this does not being him closer to Moksha. Knowledge

>alone is the antidote for ignorance, and it is this very knowledge

>that paradoxically ends that very ego's false notions of separation

>from the Whole - and then and only then is there abidance in

>Knowing.

 

hsin: Knowledge is needed only to take me home and keep me there in

the begining, later no need of knowledge, COMPLETION AND LOVE will

keep us there. The child is Home, but spinless -he did not acquire a

backbone yet- therefore any temptation will make him leave home.

When this child goes with his created ego into the world and travels

by the spiritual path, he acquires the wisdom and the knowledge to

carry him back, when he is home again -the cycle is completed now-

knowledge and wisdom give him a backbone, a spine, Untill LOVE AND

COMPLETION REIGN.

 

Thank you for your valuble comments

 

hsin

[Guest guest]

Pranams Hhsin-ji

The problem with deep sleep as an experience where Truth could be recognized is

Its mis-understanding.

****

Shyam

Yes, which is why you need two things - a means pointing to its definitive truth

(shastra) and a teacher who can help you understand it.

****

It was called " I " because the EXPERIENCE -which is the only thing there is- IS

SPEAKING ABOUT

ITSELF. This " I " refers to EXPERIENCE and has no relation whatsoever with our

ego and the sense of I-ness we feel.

****

Shyam

The terms you are using such as " completion " , or " experience " - some with

capital letters are in my humble opinion ambiguous as their literal meaning can

carry varied connotations, caps or no caps.

Brahman or the vastu for example is no experience but the very awareness- or

chit- or knowing- principle that enables cognition of every experience, and is

also anantam or poornam, the Whole, or " completion " in that sense.

What abides in deep sleep is the kArana shareera or the causal body in whose

bosom the Ego has taken a temporary respite, with all its prior vasanas latent

but fully intact - else who is the " i " who would wake up to feel " rested " . By

the way, this topic has been discussed threadbare only recently in this very

forum

****

To carry the seed of ignorance due to re-incarnation? ?? Re-incarnation, could

it be an explanation? ??? Could it be an idea?

****

Shyam

What you seemed to be postulating in your earlier post, to the best I could

understand, is that " a newborn has no Ego and is living in an experience of

Absolute Consciousness - and then develops a Ego "

My point is that Consciousness is the truth of who we are - beyond time - before

the birth of this body and after its certain death as well. This Consciousness

at no point gets associated with or develops any Ego - it cannot - being One,

NonDual vastu. The child itself is born due to accumulated karmas of a

beginingless Ego driven by the latter's ignorance - it is this jiva or

transmigratory Ego that incarnates as the child, not recognizing its true nature

- and not the other way round - that the ego-less child somwhow develops a ego.

A " ego " that did not exist before cannot come into existence, let alone be a

conditioning factor for the Absolute.

****

hsin: Knowledge is needed only to take me home and keep me there in the

begining, later no need of knowledge, COMPLETION AND LOVE will keep us there.

****

Shyam

Knowledge is needed not only to point out to the ego its falsity, but also to

establish the truth about its true nature. It is not enough that i simply

recognize that i am the " atman " - the unattached " witness " ; - the fact that i,

the Atman, am the very substratum of the Universe, of the Order, of Ishwara is

what the words of the Shruti point out unambiguously - and it is this knowledge

alone, as revealed to me by an Acharya, that delivers me. This is why and this

is where the Shastra, and the Guru, play such an extremely vital role. " nAnya

panthA vidyateyanaya " - " there is no other way! Once this knowledge is acquired

by me, there is no question of " some other thing keeping the i there " - there is

neither home nor spine - what IS is simply a choiceless abidance - not in

" knowledge " - but in " Knowing " .

 

Humble pranams

Hari OM

Shri Gurubhyoh namah

Shyam

 

 

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