Object and Consciousness of the Object

[Guest guest]

Namaste All,

Now that 'Methods of Knowledge' has been accepted as a

useful text may I direct the members' attention to page 69 in which Swami

Satprakashananda deals with the thought of Berkeley and its implications

for Advaita. He writes:

 

" But according to Sankara, the existences of sensible objects do not

depend on their perceptions; perceived or unperceived they exist as such.

Jadunath Sinha aptly observes:

" Berkeley argues that the existence of a sensible object consists in being

perceived - esse is percipi - and therefore it is an idea of the mind.

Sankara on the other hand, argues that an object is perceived because it

actually exists external to the mind; an object is distinctly perceived as

existing independent of the act of perception. No one can argue a fact of

experience out of existence. " . (Sinha's book/Indian Realism)

 

Best Wishes,

Michael

[Guest guest]

Pranams Michale-ji

I have little knowledge of what the different schools or systems of epistemology

describe.

I am happy however to present my understanding of what is the Vedantic relevance

with regards to what you quoted below about epistemology from the VP

 

There are certain schools of thought, primarily Buddhistic, which deny existence

to any objects - dismissing them as complete illusions in nothingness or just

having a momentary existence based purely on cognition or perception.

Vedanta matter-of-factly dismisses these theories by pointing out the truth

about a vastu, the substratum.

 

So an object does not borrow its existence from the perception but from the

satyam which is its substratum - so object IS, mind IS and perception IS.

All being mithya and everything that is mithya has Existence which is borrowed

from satyam alone - there cannot be anything in mithya which has existence

depending on anything OTHER than satyam, and hence alone nothing in mithya can

be nonexistent including time and space.

 

BUT one thing - whenever we speak of mithya we are by default in the realm of

avidya and hence the discussion cannot begin with a perspective which does not

include the jiva. Without jiva/ avidya/ (nonperception of substarum)

agrahana+anyathAgrahaNa (consequent projective perception of " another " ) / -

without this whole process there is no duality and without duality there is no

object, no mind, no perceiving or seeing or any means of objectification.

Brahman cannot perceive - cannot know - where Brahman IS there is naught else.

 

As an example, take a cloud in the sky which is shaped like a castle. From the

standpoint of the sky, there is only sky - no castle. But for a person seeing

the sky he is able to see a castle which is 100 feet tall, etc - he may even be

able to study the " castle " and say based on the density, etc it formed so many

days ago, and may burst at such and such time, etc. The existence of this

" castle " in this case is not predicated on the perception of the jiva, in the

sense that its existence is borrowed from the sky alone - but the attributive

existence i.e. the nama-roopa existence, its being a 3 storied castle, and blue

in colour, etc is relevant purely from the observer's viewpoint.

 

Humble pranams

Hari OM

Shri Gurubhyoh namah

Shyam

 

 

ombhurbhuva <ombhurbhuva

advaitin

Friday, February 15, 2008 5:43:24 AM

Object and Consciousness of the Object

 

 

 

Namaste

All,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now

that

'Methods

of

Knowledge'

has

been

accepted

as

a

useful

text

may

I

direct

the

members'

attention

to

page

69

in

which

Swami

Satprakashananda

deals

with

the

thought

of

Berkeley

and

its

implications

for

Advaita.

He

writes:

 

" But

according

to

Sankara,

the

existences

of

sensible

objects

do

not

depend

on

their

perceptions;

perceived

or

unperceived

they

exist

as

such.

 

Jadunath

Sinha

aptly

observes:

" Berkeley

argues

that

the

existence

of

a

sensible

object

consists

in

being

perceived

-

esse

is

percipi

-

and

therefore

it

is

an

idea

of

the

mind.

 

Sankara

on

the

other

hand,

argues

that

an

object

is

perceived

because

it

actually

exists

external

to

the

mind;

an

object

is

distinctly

perceived

as

existing

independent

of

the

act

of

perception.

No

one

can

argue

a

fact

of

experience

out

of

existence. " .

(Sinha's

book/Indian

Realism)

 

Best

Wishes,

Michael

 

 

Discussion

of

Shankara's

Advaita

Vedanta

Philosophy

of

nonseparablity

of

Atman

and

Brahman.

Advaitin

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