Affective States

[Guest guest]

That we can perceive affective states may seem to be a problematic

stance. How can we liken the perception of external objects which are

public and internal 'objects' which are private? How can we call them both

perception? Evidently the use of the term 'perception' in Advaita differs

from that in Psychology. We must disentangle the two. At its broadest

Psych.Per. (perception in Psychology) deals with issues of reaction time,

binocular vision, acuity, range etc. Ad.Per. is a metaphysical account of

how knowledge per se is possible.

 

In the perception of external objects the notion of 'perceptuality' comes

into play. VP is clear and succint on this. It distinguishes between the

object, the means of knowledge and the subject. It is therfore

threefold. Congruence is achieved between the object and its knowledge

through the fact that all are aspects of the same Pure Consciousness.

 

Now the perception of internal objects seems at most to be two fold or to

be 'one-fold' in the Buddhist understanding of self-luminous cognition.

This difficulty is due to understanding the mind as a conscious entity in

itself.

 

VP pg.16: " Again, since the Consciousness limited by happiness (or pain

etc) and the Consciousness limited by the mental state relating to them

are invariably limited by the two limiting adjuncts that occupy the same

space, the knowledge, " I am happy, " is invariably a perception " .

 

In short the internal state of the subject is an object for it. In

Consciousness it could be said that there is no outside or inside. The

mind as it were goes out to the pain. Thus the threefold aspect of

perception is maintained.

 

Sankara remarks on this in Upadesasahasri:

chap.1,#34 : The teacher should say to him, " It was not right for you to

say, 'I directly perceive the pain in me when my body gets cuts or

burns'. Why? As the pain due to cuts or burns is perceived in the body,

the object of the perception of the perceiver like a tree burnt or cut,

must have the same location as the burns etc.

 

Best Wishes,

Michael.

[Guest guest]

--- ombhurbhuva <ombhurbhuva wrote:

 

>> In short the internal state of the subject is an object for it. In

> Consciousness it could be said that there is no outside or inside. The

> mind as it were goes out to the pain. Thus the threefold aspect of

> perception is maintained.

 

Michael - PraNAms

 

I have a question for you.

 

How do the mental states are stored in the memory as soon as their knowledge has

taken

place? In your understanding, is there a difference in the external vs internal

perceptions in terms of memory of those perceptions.

 

Second question related to the 'I am happy' perception. I am not comfortable in

having an

object of happiness as a metal state. - Is it just sense pleasure as mental

state that I

identify as perceived limiting consciousness.

 

I think Physical bodily pain is onething in terms of source of pain where sense

of

contact by nerve system can bringin. But internal pain is mental pains - due to

attachments. I have felling the internal pain is part of the internal perception

- like

happiness and angry etc.

 

I am not clear how the knowledge of these mental states are stored in comparison

to

knowledge of the mental states associated with perception of objects outside.

 

Let me know what you think?

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

[Guest guest]

advaitin , kuntimaddi sadananda

<kuntimaddisada wrote:

>

>

> I think Physical bodily pain is onething in terms of source of

pain where sense of

> contact by nerve system can bringin. But internal pain is mental

pains - due to

> attachments. I have felling the internal pain is part of the

internal perception - like

> happiness and angry etc.

>

> I am not clear how the knowledge of these mental states are stored

in comparison to

> knowledge of the mental states associated with perception of

objects outside.

>

> Let me know what you think?

>

> Hari Om!

> Sadananda

 

Dear sada-ji and Michael-ji,

This is a ticklish problem. If I have cut my finger I feel pain in

the finger and also discomfort (unhappiness) in my mind. The

discomfort can be said to be sAkshi pratyaksha because it is known

by the sAkshi through the mind without the help of any of the five

sense-organs. But what about the pain in the finger? This cannot be

known by any of my sense-organs though it is outside my mind. Can

the sense of touch know it? I do not think so, because the pain is

felt only by the mind through the particular nerves. So ultimately

both the pain and the discomfort must be considered to be internal

perceptions and so they are sAkshi pratyaksha.

This is however not quite free from doubt.

Regards,

S.N.Sastri

>