Guest guest Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 All Zen masters and Zen sutras insist that enlightenment is having " No-mind. " All Advita insists on No identity. What does " No-mind " means? Does it mean that I am transformed to an idiot or a moron? No, we can see clearly that all Zen Masters are neither idiots nor morons; then what does " No-mind " signifies? To answer this question; one has first to understand deeply what does it mean to have a mind - to have a mind to depend on. This mind that I depend on is ambitious and intelligent and has a library of accumulated and stored up knowledge. The ambition of the mind uses its intelligence and the stored up knowledge to derive out of this two things. First, I derive the ability to hope for more, the desire for more and the greed for more. Secondly, the sense of being clever and intelligent, a sense from which I derive pride, I derive excellence, I derive uniqueness, I derive superiority, arrogance and conceit As a natural result of enjoying what I derive from my mind I get more and more glued and attached to it to the extent that I become absolutely identified with mind and think that I am the mind. This mind is me, it represents me. I encounter life with this inner structure of mind. Every new encounter with life with its successful rewards affirms this mind of ambition/pride cocktail, of more excellence and of more uniqueness. From now on, all the activities of man have one sole aim, which is affirming the ambition/pride cocktail of me. Now I am the mind, " me " is the mind. The mind becomes my identity. If I can rid myself, just from the ambition/pride cocktail derived from this mind. The whole panorama will change, how? and to what? Now a crucial question, if I rid myself from this ambition/pride cocktail; I will be at risk, I will be threatened, I might even starve and die. My answer to you will be: have you seen the birds of the sky, the fish in the see, they live and function beautifully and are never burdened by the fears of living. We humans carry this burden, while the whole existence does not. Do we still think that man is intelligent? However, man does not want to live like a fish or a sparrow, man wants more. Any way, if this mind rids itself from the ambition/pride cocktail, this mind will stop running in the channels that feeds itself, and you will stop depending on it for anything. Your identification and attachment to that mind will thus be severed and you will stand with " No-mind " of your own. Now this new mind which is no longer yours or any one's, will function as it should be, not as you wanted it to function. It will only reflect WHAT IS, not your AMBITION/PRIDE cocktail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 advaitin , " hsin_shang " <hsin_shang wrote: Namaste Hsin Shang, Pranams. I think it might be a good idea to examine some of your sweeping statements in the light of the teachings of Vedanta. First of all you say, " All Advaita insists on No identity. " In my understanding this is not actually true. The teachings of Vedanta seek to show us that our true identity, is actually brahman. It is that identity which the jnani knows to be true, when the jnani says the word 'I.' Brahman is where the 'I' thought of the jnani lands. In fact, brahman is the actual locus of the 'I' thought of all living creatures, whether they know it or not. Secondly it seems to me that you imply that we become ever more increasingly identified with our minds through the use of the mind. I'm not sure that Vedanta would say this is true. All living creatures are born identified with the mind. It's my understanding that this is the reason for the birth of the jiva, which is held to be beginningless, but which ends upon the gain of self-knowledge. It seems to me that some people seem to enjoy bashing the mind, but it is actually through the proper use and teaching of the mind that liberation takes place. Certainly the self is prior to the mind, but it is the mind that is used to recognize this. I am not sure that birds and fish (or other animals) are never burdened by fear. Most living creatures become very frightened when they feel their well-being is threatened. They may not project as far into the future with their fears as we humans do, but they still have the capacity to fear, which I would surmise is an instinctual survival tactic, instilled all creatures by the Lord. I believe that Vedanta would consider the mind a vibhuti, a glory of the Lord, given to us to help assist us in gaining those healthy things which we do desire, (Whether the mind is used in a healthy way or not may depend a lot upon our mental conditioning.) And also given to us in order that, when we finally see that all that we desire will never give us what we truly desire, (i.e. lasting happiness), then we may use that glorious mind to examine our experience, in the light of the teachings, and hopefully gain moksha. Pranams, Durga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Harih Om Dear All, This is a very well explained article. But, note this line in the last paragraph - " if this mind rids itself from the ambition/pride cocktail, " . This is the main sadhana. Our scriptures give many direct and indirect ways. For example, Gita verse 5-20 gives a simple method. It says, " Do not get elated seeing favourable ends or do not get depressed if you get an unwanted result " . If this is practised all the time, the identification process stops in due course. Sankara's Sadhana Panchakam or Upadesa Panchakam gives excellent guidance. Jai Guru Natarajan (new member) ______________________________\ ____ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 advaitin , " P.R.Natarajan " <ntrjnpr wrote: > Dear Friends, The question of mind control is to turn it inwards---that is away from sense objects---objects which attract our five senses----mind is considered the sixth sense---That is Nivritti marga or path; the mind , after considerable practice ,will reside inthe heart or hridaya, the pure Self or Being.Thoughts cease..At that stage,the mind disppaears....not before. -----In Sai Smaran, N K Srinivasan > Harih Om > > Dear All, > > > This is a very well explained article. But, note this > line in the last paragraph - " if this mind rids itself > from the ambition/pride cocktail, " . This is the main > sadhana. Our scriptures give many direct and indirect > ways. For example, Gita verse 5-20 gives a simple > method. It says, " Do not get elated seeing favourable > ends or do not get depressed if you get an unwanted > result " . If this is practised all the time, the > identification process stops in due course. > > Sankara's Sadhana Panchakam or Upadesa Panchakam gives > excellent guidance. > > Jai Guru > > Natarajan > (new member) > > > > > ______________________________\ ____ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 namaskarams glorious indeed is the awareness that shines forth as vrrtis[thoughts] to even use this manas to have purified thoughts as they come and action of as writing and replying. all this is indeed having the substartum of parabhrama which even while being does no action but the seemingly modifcations as thoughts comes and goes it is the only truth that needs no self validation of even " being " yet allows the mind and bhuddi to understand anirvachaniya. even the gnani who no longer exists in nama rupa concepts[truth of time is beautifully understood here] as a name and form [terminology] as a gnani thinking as all thoughts are indeed dissolved and where does it dissolve as no place is devoid of parabhraman all indeed is bhraman [glorification of space ] as shruti gently guides yatho vacho nivartante srigurubhoynamaha advaitin , " Durga " <durgaji108 wrote: > > advaitin , " hsin_shang " <hsin_shang@> wrote: > > Namaste Hsin Shang, > > Pranams. I think it might be a good idea > to examine some of your sweeping statements > in the light of the teachings of Vedanta. > > First of all you say, " All Advaita insists on No identity. " > In my understanding this is not actually true. > The teachings of Vedanta seek to show us that > our true identity, is actually brahman. > It is that identity which the jnani knows > to be true, when the jnani says the word 'I.' > Brahman is where the 'I' thought of the jnani lands. > In fact, brahman is the actual locus of the 'I' > thought of all living creatures, whether they > know it or not. > > Secondly it seems to me that you imply that we > become ever more increasingly identified with > our minds through the use of the mind. I'm > not sure that Vedanta would say this is true. > All living creatures are born identified with the mind. > It's my understanding that this is the reason for > the birth of the jiva, which is held to > be beginningless, but which ends upon the > gain of self-knowledge. > > It seems to me that some people seem to enjoy bashing > the mind, but it is actually through the proper use > and teaching of the mind that liberation takes place. > > Certainly the self is prior to the mind, but > it is the mind that is used to recognize this. > > I am not sure that birds and fish (or > other animals) are never burdened > by fear. Most living creatures become > very frightened when they feel their > well-being is threatened. They may not > project as far into the future with > their fears as we humans do, but they still > have the capacity to fear, which I would > surmise is an instinctual survival tactic, > instilled all creatures by the Lord. > > I believe that Vedanta would consider > the mind a vibhuti, a glory of the Lord, > given to us to help assist us in gaining > those healthy things which we do desire, > (Whether the mind is used in a healthy way > or not may depend a lot upon our > mental conditioning.) > > And also given to us in order that, when > we finally see that all that we desire will > never give us what we truly desire, (i.e. > lasting happiness), then we may use that > glorious mind to examine our experience, > in the light of the teachings, and hopefully > gain moksha. > > Pranams, > Durga > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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