Advaita and Shaivism

[Guest guest]

Dear All:

 

Today I made the association that on the advaitin list, at least the

members that usually write postings, in general come from a Vaishnava

background (please correct me if I'm wrong). Rarely we see OM Namo

Sivaia as a goodbye signature (except today!!!).

This association prompt me to ask if Saivism in general (with its

different branches like Kashmir Saivism, Saiva Siddhanta, etc..) is of

a vishistadvaita nature or is purely advaitic in essence. I'm starting

to have a little " knowledge " about what advaita means but I'm still

completely ignorant about these other aspects of it.

A friend of mine used to have long discussions with me saying that

Saivism is purely advaitic in nature, even he went far enough saying

that it was the " real " advaita; he was basing his statements on

several sources, one of them being the book " Pratyabhijnahrdayam " by

Jaideva Singh. Still, his arguments didn't convince me...

The doubt was kept in my mind, would any of you help me destroy this

doubt?

 

Thanks in advance,

Bowing to All that pervade us,

 

Mouna

[Guest guest]

Namaste Shri Mouna,

 

In reply to your message #40082 of 21 March, two ways have come to

mind for relating Shaivism to Advaita enquiry.

 

First, some Shaivite theologies (like Kashmir Shaivism) make a

reflective enquiry into four levels of expression:

 

1. Vaikhari ('elaborated') -- referring to the elaborated structure

an external world that is made up of objective parts

 

2. Madhyama ('mediating') -- referring to the mediating process of

mind that expresses an underlying consciousness in objective structure

 

3. Pashyanti ('seeing') -- referring to the silent seeing of the

witness at the underlying depth of continued understanding

 

4. Para ('beyond') -- referring finally to an ultimate non-duality of

seeing in itself or knowing in itself, beyond the duality of see-er

and seen.

 

These four levels will be taken up later in my current series of

postings from the Vakyapadiya.

 

The second way of relating Shaivism and Advaita arises from

descriptions of Shiva as the 'Destroyer' and as the 'Auspicious'

(implying peace and happiness and love). This may be shown by quoting

from " Notes on Spiritual Discourses of Shri Atmananda " , as appended

below.

 

Ananda

 

 

649. Your real faculties and their functions

-----------

 

Your real nature has two distinct aspects, namely Consciousness and

Peace; and they seem to function as though they are two distinct

faculties of knowledge and love. They absorb everything into you.

When an object comes into direct contact with knowledge or love, the

object is spontaneously transformed into knowledge or love and it

loses its identity as an object.

 

So knowledge and love really destroy everything external. They make

the name 'destroyer', given to Lord Shiva, significant and meaningful.

 

 

744. What happens when you think of consciousness?

-----------------

 

All thought of Consciousness annihilates thought, like a moth in the

fire.

 

 

1107. Higher reason or vidya-vritti

--

 

This is a supra-intellectual organon to be found in everyone. In the

presence of the Guru, this organon is aroused, and is made use of, in

order to understand the Truth. It corrects and supplements the

findings of the lower reason. It destroys all that is objective and

unreal, created by the mind; and when nothing else remains to be

destroyed, it stands revealed in its own glory as the Reality – just

as the fire that consumes the forest extinguishes itself when nothing

else remains to be consumed, and Peace prevails.

[Guest guest]

Hare Krishna, Namaskarams.

 

that is because we look upon siva,subrahmanya, vishnu ,sakthi, all alike and

choose an ishta devata. sandhya vandanam contains all vishnu.'s names as

protector. my mother gave me a mantra to chant whenever necessary

as " Om Namasivaya Namo Narayana' and as a krishna bhaktha i am an advaitin at

my heart.for me krishna is siva,siva krishna and both are for me is brahman.

 

may lord krishna and lord siva bless us all.

baskaran

 

Mouna <solracartist wrote: Dear All:

 

Today I made the association that on the advaitin list, at least the

members that usually write postings, in general come from a Vaishnava

background (please correct me if I'm wrong). Rarely we see OM Namo

Sivaia as a goodbye signature (except today!!!).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

BASKARAN.C.S

 

 

 

Get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. Click here to know how.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Mouna,

 

On 21/03/2008, Mouna <solracartist wrote:

> Today I made the association that on the advaitin list, at least the

> members that usually write postings, in general come from a Vaishnava

> background (please correct me if I'm wrong). Rarely we see OM Namo

> Sivaia as a goodbye signature (except today!!!).

 

The association you are making is not correct. Most of the senior

Indian posters on this list are Smaarta-s, not Vaishnava-s. Smaarta-s

are followers of the Vedic ritualistic tradition with its multifarious

deities and do not assign a special status to a particular deity

(unlike Shaiva-s and Vaishnava-s).

 

While Smaarta-s do not necessarily adhere to any one particular

philosophy, Advaita Vedanta emerged from the smaarta fold and most

historical Advaitins have been Smaarta-s including Ramana Maharshi.

 

> This association prompt me to ask if Saivism in general (with its

> different branches like Kashmir Saivism, Saiva Siddhanta, etc..) is of

> a vishistadvaita nature or is purely advaitic in essence.

 

There are various Shaiva traditions with a variety of philosophies.

Many early Shaiva traditions such as the Pashupata-s and Kalamukha-s

no longer survive. The Kashmiri Shaiva tradition, which emerged in the

early post-Sankaran period, is quite close to Advaita Vedanta though

there are some differences in approach. However, there is no strong

surviving lineage of this school. In southern India, there are 2

Shaiva traditions that still have a small network of matha-s, the

Veerashaiva-s of Karnataka and the Shaiva Siddhantins of Tamil Nadu.

However, even in these cases the surviving scholastic tradition is

quite weak.

 

Ramesh

[Guest guest]

For a very enlightening and very authorative as well as elaborate

discussion on this topic (and other related issues as well) by His

Holiness, the Sage of Kanchi, in his inimitable style laced with

humor, please use this link

 

http://tinyurl.com/2zuqob

 

Hari OM

Shri Gurubhyoh namah

Shyam

advaitin , " Ramesh Krishnamurthy "

<rkmurthy wrote:

>

> Dear Mouna,

>

> On 21/03/2008, Mouna <solracartist wrote:

> > Today I made the association that on the advaitin list, at

least the

> > members that usually write postings, in general come from a

Vaishnava

> > background (please correct me if I'm wrong). Rarely we see OM

Namo

> > Sivaia as a goodbye signature (except today!!!).

>

> The association you are making is not correct. Most of the senior

> Indian posters on this list are Smaarta-s, not Vaishnava-s.

Smaarta-s

> are followers of the Vedic ritualistic tradition with its

multifarious

> deities and do not assign a special status to a particular deity

> (unlike Shaiva-s and Vaishnava-s).

>

> While Smaarta-s do not necessarily adhere to any one particular

> philosophy, Advaita Vedanta emerged from the smaarta fold and most

> historical Advaitins have been Smaarta-s including Ramana Maharshi.

>

> > This association prompt me to ask if Saivism in general (with

its

> > different branches like Kashmir Saivism, Saiva Siddhanta,

etc..) is of

> > a vishistadvaita nature or is purely advaitic in essence.

>

> There are various Shaiva traditions with a variety of philosophies.

> Many early Shaiva traditions such as the Pashupata-s and Kalamukha-

s

> no longer survive. The Kashmiri Shaiva tradition, which emerged in

the

> early post-Sankaran period, is quite close to Advaita Vedanta

though

> there are some differences in approach. However, there is no strong

> surviving lineage of this school. In southern India, there are 2

> Shaiva traditions that still have a small network of matha-s, the

> Veerashaiva-s of Karnataka and the Shaiva Siddhantins of Tamil

Nadu.

> However, even in these cases the surviving scholastic tradition is

> quite weak.

>

> Ramesh

>