Chittashudhi - PrajnAnam brahma

[Guest guest]

Namaste, all

Karma phalAs or results of any karma, whether vedic or secular, are limited in

time, as the karmas are performed in time. So, if chittashudhi is the result of

performance of karma, vedic rituals, it is also limited in time. I may be wrong.

Howevedr, if chittashudhi is gained alongwith knowledge, which actually

happens as one proceeds in the study of the GnAna kAnda, i think that

chittashudhi will not be limited in time.

I wish to be corrected as I always felt how karmas helped one towards gaining

chittashudhi.

Hari Om

Mani

 

 

R. S. Mani

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

advaitin , " R.S.MANI " <r_s_mani wrote:

>

> Namaste, all

> Karma phalAs or results of any karma, whether vedic or secular,

are limited in time, as the karmas are performed in time. So, if

chittashudhi is the result of performance of karma, vedic rituals, it

is also limited in time. I may be wrong.

> Howevedr, if chittashudhi is gained alongwith knowledge, which

actually happens as one proceeds in the study of the GnAna kAnda, i

think that chittashudhi will not be limited in time.

> I wish to be corrected as I always felt how karmas helped one

towards gaining chittashudhi.

> Hari Om

> Mani

>

>

> R. S. Mani

>

>

 

 

Namaste,

 

Chitta - that faculty of mind that which takes impression.?

Shuddhi(Shuddham) - the state of being pure?

ChittaShuddhi - The purity of the " faculty of mind that which takes

impression "

Isnt already pure?.As Ramana Mahrshi(?) used to say people are already

liberated only thing is that they are not realising it.So any thing

karma,jnana,Yukti or any thing esle is jsut a means of realizing this

purity.And this realisation can be lost if we use wrong axioms(things

we assume true without any objection) of these paths at any point of time.

 

Take one analogy a photo film which takes impression. by defalut it is

pure.The picture that is taken is inert. Its the mental imputaion that

gives the feeling

of good picture or bad picture.The same picture may be interpretted as

good as well as bad depending on the criteria used for judgement.

About permanance of any state be it that of bondage or liberation -

As i read a translation of viveka chudamani - Liberation and Bondage

is of the intellect.

So Liberation and like wise ChittaShuddhi is not permanently seen in

an individual.

 

So as it is said rituals are useless if you are not liberated and

doing them is anyway useless once liberated But i guess there is the

third state of niether bonded nor liberated that is on the path to

liberation/bondage where in rituals may be useful - for bondage?

 

As it is said - as long as the desire to perform rituals are there

liberation cannot be attained. And the deisre to perform ritual is

there as long as u expect the outcome for ur benefit If it is done for

others? it may be still useful i guess.Like some are supposed to do

Yajna/pooja and like that.

 

All these are thoughts which came to my mind just like that.

Forgive me for the mistakes. I thought of writing this so some thought

process is ketp alive.

 

 

Bhavana Thanavam Moksha, Bandho Hi Dridha Bhavana

Thought reduction is freedom-Thought assertion is bondage.

 

Rgds,

Sreenath

 

 

 

 

 

>

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[Guest guest]

advaitin , " R.S.MANI " <r_s_mani wrote:

>

> Namaste, all

> Karma phalAs or results of any karma, whether vedic or secular,

are limited in time, as the karmas are performed in time. So, if

chittashudhi is the result of performance of karma, vedic rituals,

it is also limited in time. I may be wrong.

> Howevedr, if chittashudhi is gained alongwith knowledge, which

actually happens as one proceeds in the study of the GnAna kAnda, i

think that chittashudhi will not be limited in time.

> I wish to be corrected as I always felt how karmas helped one

towards gaining chittashudhi.

> Hari Om

> Mani

>

>

> R. S. Mani

Dear Shri Mani,

What is chitta suddhi? It is nothing but becoming free from all

desires. When there are no desires there is no scope at all for

other negative tendencies such as anger, envy, greed, etc., arising.

Desirelessness is attained by the performance of one's duties, both

secular and religious, without desire for the fruit and as an

offering to God. It is not attained at one stroke, but is a gradual

process. Once the mind has become free from desires, there will be

no need for further action. The theory that the fruits of karma are

limited in time cannot apply to chitta suddhi. Once a person has

become free from desires, he can devote himself totally to the path

of knowledge. After having attained chitta suddhi by the practice of

kayma yoga for a long period, one is not likely to become ensnared

by desires again if he is careful.

Regards,

Sastri

 

>

>

>

> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with

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>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Sastri,You wrote, " After having attained chitta suddhi by the practice of

 

kayma yoga for a long period, one is not likely to become ensnared

 

by desires again if he is careful. " Would you kindly expound on what you mean by

" if he is careful " . By that do you mean attentive, or somewhat else?

 

Thank you,

 

Ed

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Maniji -PraNAms.

 

One is said to have chitta suddhi if one can proceed from karma yoga to

jnaana yoga -I discussed the frame of mind in the post karma yoga to

jnaana yoga couple of manths ago, based on Swami Paramarthanandaji's

talk.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

 

 

--- " R.S.MANI " <r_s_mani wrote:

 

> Namaste, all

> Karma phalAs or results of any karma, whether vedic or secular, are

> limited in time, as the karmas are performed in time. So, if

> chittashudhi is the result of performance of karma, vedic rituals, it

> is also limited in time. I may be wrong.

> Howevedr, if chittashudhi is gained alongwith knowledge, which

> actually happens as one proceeds in the study of the GnAna kAnda, i

> think that chittashudhi will not be limited in time.

> I wish to be corrected as I always felt how karmas helped one

> towards gaining chittashudhi.

> Hari Om

> Mani

>

>

> R. S. Mani

>

>

>

> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with

> Search.

>

>

[Guest guest]

advaitin , Ed Akehurst <nichiketa wrote:

>

> Dear Sastri,You wrote, " After having attained chitta suddhi by the

practice of

>

> kayma yoga for a long period, one is not likely to become ensnared

>

> by desires again if he is careful. " Would you kindly expound on

what you mean by " if he is careful " . By that do you mean attentive,

or somewhat else?

>

> Thank you,

>

> Ed

Namaste, Ed-ji,

By being careful I meant remaining detached towards all worldly

pleasures and not allowing himself to be tempted, so that he remains

free from desires.

Regards,

S.N.Sastri

>

>

>

>

>

>

_______________

> How well do you know your celebrity gossip?

> http://originals.msn.com/thebigdebate?ocid=T002MSN03N0707A

>

>

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " snsastri " <sn.sastri wrote:

>

> advaitin , Ed Akehurst <nichiketa@> wrote:

> >

> By being careful I meant remaining detached towards all worldly

> pleasures and not allowing himself to be tempted, so that he

remains

> free from desires.

 

 

Namaste,

 

As the subject of chitta-shuddhi crops up periodically, and

it bears repetition endlessly, the following excerpt is worth

memorising:

 

http://www.celextel.org/108upanishads/chandogya.html?page=7

 

Chandogya Upanishad - 7:26:2

 

........aahaarashuddhau sattvashuddhau dhruvaa smRRitiH

smRRitilambhe sarvagranthiinaaM vipramokshaH..........

 

VII-xxvi-2: " ..............When nourishment is pure, reflection and

higher understanding become pure. When reflection and higher

understanding are pure, memory becomes strong. When memory becomes

strong, there is release from all the knots of the heart.......... "

 

[Tr. by Sw. Svahananda]

 

Bhashya-

 

......athedaaniiM yathoktaayaa vidyaayaaH samyagavabhaasakaaraNaM

mukhaavabhaasakaaraNasyeva aadarshasya vishuddhikaaraNaM

saadhanamupadishyate - aahaarashuddhau | aahriyata ityaahaaraH

shabdaadiviShayavij~naanaM bhokturbhogaaya aahriyate . tasya

viShayopalabdhilakShaNasya vij~naanasya shuddhiH aahaarashuddhiH\,

raagadveShamohadoShairasaMsRRiShTaM viShayavij~naanamityarthaH |

tasyaamaahaarashuddhau satyaaM tadvato.antaHkaraNasya sattvasya

shuddhiH nairmalyaM bhavati | sattvashuddhau cha satyaaM yathaavagate

bhuumaatmani dhruvaa avichchhinnaa smRRitiH avismaraNaM bhavati |

tasyaaM cha labdhaayaaM smRRitilambhe sati sarveShaamavidyaakRRita\-

anarthapaasharuupaaNaaM anekajanmaantaraanubhavabhaavanaa kaThinii\-

kRRitaanaaM hRRidayaashrayaaNaaM granthiinaaM vipramokShaH visheSheNa

pramokShaNaM bhavatiiti | yata etaduttarottaraM yathoktamaahaara\-

shuddhimuulaM tasmaatsaa kaaryetyarthaH |.......................

 

" ...Now, after that, instruction is being given about the discipline

which is the means for the fullest revelation of Knowledge as spoken

of, like the purificationof a mirror which is the cause for the

reflection of a face.

AhArashuddhaU - from purity of food - AhAra, food is derived in

the sense of whatever is acquired, the knolwdge of sound etc., which

are acquired for the enjoyment of the enjoyer-, so that, by

purification of food is implied the purification of knowledge in the

form of perception of objects. What is meant is, the (having of)

knowledge of objects , which has no touch of such faults as

attachment, repulsion, or delusion. When that food is purified, there

comes the shuddhiH, purification, freedom from impurity; of the

sattva internal organ which is the possessor of that (pure food).

sattva-shuddhau, from the purification of the internal organ;

there comes dhruvA smRRitiH, unfailing memory of the Infinite as He

has been realized. After that is attained, smRitilambhe, after the

achievement of memory; there comes vipramokShaH, falling asunder,

thefullest destruction; hRRidayagranthInAm,of the knots existing in

the heart, of all the bonds in the form of snares of objects

created by ignorance, which had become hardened by the impressions

left by the experinces in many past lives. The idea implied is this:

Since the successive stages have purity of food as their source,

therefore it has to be undertaken...... "

 

[Tr. by Sw. Gambhirananda]

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

[Guest guest]

Namste, all

My grateful thanks to all those who have very kindly posted notes on

Chittashudhi, in response to my doubts.

I now take it that chittashudhi takes place, slowly, (but definitely) in due

course of time, as one proceeds with performance of karmas, both vedic and

secular, as karma yoga.

Though the purpose of performance of karmas as karma yoga is not for

chittashudhi, chittashudhi takes place just like the fragrance enjoyed by the

flower vendor.

Am I to understand like this? Is it like that?

However, for this, one must know what is karma yoga or knowledge of karma yoga

must be there.

The whole problem is one does not know that his mind is impure or there is no

chittashudhi.

We have come across great saints and realized ones at very early age, and it

appears that they did not go through performance of karma as karma yoga.

Other than karma yoga, is there any other way of getting chittashudhi?

Warm regards

Hari Om

Mani

 

 

R. S. Mani

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

advaitin , " R.S.MANI " <r_s_mani wrote:

>

>

> Though the purpose of performance of karmas as karma yoga is not

for chittashudhi, chittashudhi takes place just like the fragrance

enjoyed by the flower vendor.

> Am I to understand like this? Is it like that?

> However, for this, one must know what is karma yoga or knowledge

of karma yoga must be there.

> The whole problem is one does not know that his mind is impure

or there is no chittashudhi.

> We have come across great saints and realized ones at very early

age, and it appears that they did not go through performance of

karma as karma yoga.

> Other than karma yoga, is there any other way of getting

chittashudhi?

> Warm regards

> Hari Om

> R. S. Mani

 

Dear Shri Mani,

The purpose of karma yoga is certainly to attain chitta suddhi.

Of course some knowledge that there is such a thing as liberation

which one should strive for is necessary for a person even to think

of practicing karma yoga.

The avadhutagita says that interest in advaita itself is due to

God's grace, which again, is due to the fructification of past

karma.

As regards saints who got realization early in life, that must be

attributed only to the spiritual progress they had already achieved

in past lives. The gita as well as the upanishads say that the

spiritual progress acquired in one life is not lost, but it will be

with him in the next birth and it will then bear fruit. Development

over a series of births is what is spoken of in the scriptures.

If a person is by nature free from all desires even at birth, as

Prahlada was, then karma yoga is not necessary for him.

Regards,

S.N.Sastri

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

--- " R.S.MANI " <r_s_mani wrote:

> Other than karma yoga, is there any other way of getting

> chittashudhi?

 

Maniji - PraNAms

 

Karma yoga is essentially when the mind is extrovert. As the mind

becomes subtler and subtler, withdrawal of the mind occurs slowly. We

will not be any more interested in the action but would like to spend

more time in the study and contemplation - even though they are also

actions they make the mind introvert. We are realizing that the

happiness that we are after is from within. The more mind settles down

in this knowledge - what Krishna calls as yogaaruuDha - the finer

purification of the mind or tuning the mind to higher occurs via

mananam and nidhidhyaasanam. These are also karma but we call it as

jnaana yoga - in the process we are slowly recognizing that we are also

not actors but just agents for action and therefore results do not

belong to us even for us to give up the longing for results. In those

cases the action that we perform outside is only for loka kalyaanam or

for the benefit of the society at large since there is no self-centered

motive. Then karma itself becomes a vehicle for jnaana since one begins

to see the all pervading reality inside as well as outside. When that

understanding becomes the bottom line for one's living, chitta suddhi

is completed. That is the realization that - antarbahischa tat sarvam

vyaapya naaraayanaH sthitaH - Narayana is there inside and outside

leaving no place for self-centered 'i'.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " R.S.MANI " <r_s_mani wrote:

>

> Though the purpose of performance of karmas as karma yoga is not

for chittashudhi, chittashudhi takes place just like the fragrance

enjoyed by the flower vendor.

> Am I to understand like this? Is it like that?

> However, for this, one must know what is karma yoga or knowledge

of karma yoga must be there.

> The whole problem is one does not know that his mind is impure or

there is no chittashudhi.

> Other than karma yoga, is there any other way of getting

chittashudhi?

 

Namaste,

 

As 'aha~NkAra' (ego) is the last bastion of 'avidyA'

(ignorance), whatever one calls the method and process for

eliminating it, can only result in purification.

 

One can expand it and make it subtle like the infinite sky,

or burn it in the fire of knowledge, or drown it in the nectarine

ocean of bhakti, the 'Atma-buddhi-prasAda' is the guaranteed result.

 

The Gita is replete with such 'Apta-vAkya'-s (sagacious

words), and they will suit anyone's mood at any time. The following

are some that come to mind:

 

dhyaanenaatmani pashyanti kechidaatmaanamaatmanaa .

anye saaN^khyena yogena karmayogena chaapare .. 13\-25..

anye tvevamajaanantaH shrutvaanyebhya upaasate .

te.api chaatitarantyeva mR^ityu.n shrutiparaayaNaaH .. 13\-26..

 

 

yathaidhaa.nsi samiddho.agnirbhasmasaatkurute.arjuna .

GYaanaagniH sarvakarmaaNi bhasmasaatkurute tathaa .. 4\-37..

na hi GYaanena sadR^ishaM pavitramiha vidyate .

tatsvayaM yogasa.nsiddhaH kaalenaatmani vindati .. 4\-38..

 

puruShaH sa paraH paartha bhaktyaa labhyastvananyayaa .

yasyaantaHsthaani bhuutaani yena sarvamidaM tatam.h .. 8\-22..

bhaktyaa tvananyayaa shakya ahameva.nvidho.arjuna .

GYaatuM draShTu.n cha tattvena praveShTu.n cha parantapa .. 11\-54..

bhaktyaa maamabhijaanaati yaavaanyashchaasmi tattvataH .

tato maaM tattvato GYaatvaa vishate tadanantaram.h .. 18\-55..

 

teShaa.n satatayuktaanaaM bhajataaM priitipuurvakam.h .

dadaami buddhiyogaM taM yena maamupayaanti te .. 10\-10..

teShaamevaanukampaarthamahamaGYaanajaM tamaH .

naashayaamyaatmabhaavastho GYaanadiipena bhaasvataa .. 10\-11..

 

[ For tr. pl. refer to :

 

advaitinBhagawad%20Gita%

20Commentaries%20and%20References/Shankara1/

 

or

 

http://tinyurl.com/3oqsb ]

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Sunder

[Guest guest]

--- " R.S.MANI " wrote:

> Other than karma yoga, is there any other way of getting

> chittashudhi?

 

Hari Om,

 

In this context the following is worth noting:

 

Taittitiya Upanishad, Siksha Valli, Anuvaka XI:

Please see the Sankara Bhashya at the end of the Anuvaka.

 

Objection: As knowledge is caused by works, there is no use making further

effort. Knowledge arises from works on the extinction of the accumulated sins

of the past which have obstructed its rise. All exertion - such as the study of

Upanishads - other than the performance of karma or vedic rituals is useless.

 

Answer: No, because there is no such rule. There is no law laid down to the

effect that knowledge comes from the extinction of obstacles alone, but not from

the Divine Grace (Isvara-Prasad), or from the practice of austerity (tapas) and

dhyana and the like. Ahimsa (abstention from injury), brhmacharya (chastity) and

the like are all conducive to wisdom, while sravana (study of upanishads),

manana (reflection upon heir teaching), and nidhidhyasana (meditation) are the

immediate cause of wisdom. We, therefore, conclude that there are other asramas

or orders of life. And we also conclude that all orders are qualified to work

for vidya, and that the highest good accrues from knowledge alone.

(Translation by Sri Alldi Mahadeva Sasry)

 

 

Regards

-- Durga Prasad

 

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