Look back at the old files!

[Guest guest]

Mouna raised a question in private and he was not happy with the answer

I gave. Apparently he digged the old files of advaitin and found a

satisfying answer to his quetion. That proves two points. 1. old is

gold, 2. we cannot discard the archieves of advaitin list and 3. One

day I have to publish these collected discussions that I had on this

list which is now ready to go when I find a publishere ready to

publish. I am just reproducing the file he has sent me without making

any changes to show we have the same three guys still discussing on

this list.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

 

kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada

Wed Mar 26, 2003 2:41 pm

Re: Fate and Free Will

 

 

Dennis and Ram

Here are my thoughts on the subject.

 

The topic can be addressed from two perspectives.

 

At Vyavahaara level - or jiiva's reference.

 

When one thinks he is a jiiva - then there is an 'apparent' free will

but that apparent is not apparent since jiiva who himself is an

apparent thinks he is really different from the rest of the universe.

Hence the apparent free will becomes a real free will as long as

jiiva-hood is there. Hence Lord KrishNa advises Arjuna - niyatam kuru

-or yaj~naartham kuru - do your obligatory duties - do for the sake of

yaj~naa - here kuru is vidhi - that one should do. One should do is

different from one cannot but do. There is an inherent choice in that

former statement. That is the apparently real free will. As long as

jiiva-hood is there, there is apparently real sadhana that one has to

do including the study of the scriptures - hence Upanishad declare -

are drashTavyaH, srotavyaH, mantavyaH, nidhidhyaasitavyaH - one should

listen, reflect upon and contemplate on the reality - tavyaH is again

vidhi vaakyam - One should do if one want to evolve.

 

Now from paaramaarthika view point - The question itself has no meaning

since from that level - there is nothing other than Brahman and there

is

no kartaa for free-will to operate. Hence discussion of free will has

no relevance from that point. akartaaham abhoktaaham - I am neither

doer nor an enjoyer.

 

Now we bring an intermediate level - Iswara level or from macrocosmic

viewpoint rather than microcosmic point.

At Iswara level there is maya which is prakriti. At that level - free

will transforms into spontaneity - that the totality responds with

local

perturbation in response to the stimulus. I would not call it as fate

-

fate has a connotation as predestined. But what I call spontaneity is

the local perturbation in response to the constraints imposed.

Constraints are imposed by the rest of the surrounding prakriti. I

call

this a dynamic system continuously self-equilibrating which itself

setsup perturbations into the surroundings, while respond to a

perturbation. Hence it is a vibrant system with no damping of the

vibrations since system includes the whole universe, and in the process

excludes nothing. Hence it is rightly called jagat - jayate gachchate

iti that which is in continuos motion or vibrations. Hence

perturbations continuously propagate spontaneously creating space-time

and periodic cycles of perturbations. Since everything is conserved,

we

have sanchita karama, prarabda karma and agaami karma-s from a jiiva

point who apparently feels that it is all real and owns in his

perturbations and response to the perturbations. At the macrocosmic

point we have samashhTi instead of vyashhti. Hence from the samashhTi

or

totality point Krishana declares - prakRiti eva ca karmaani

kriyamaanani

sarvashhaH - all actions (without any exceptions) are done by prakRiti.

 

From my understanding it is a question of only spontaneity or free will

rather than fate and/or free will.

 

Looks like I have responded spontaneously or by free will.

 

Hari OM!

Sadananda

[Guest guest]

Respected Sadaji, I could not find your old article on karma yoga in

the files section. Perhaps Sunderji can help.

 

 

regards,

Shailendra

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " bhatnagar_shailendra "

<bhatnagar_shailendra wrote:

>

> Respected Sadaji, I could not find your old article on karma yoga

in

> the files section.

 

The series appeared as follows:

 

30082 Karma yoga IX:

Jan 27, 2006

11:03 am

29729 Karma yoga - Part VIII:

Jan 8, 2006

3:11 am

29673 On Karma Yoga: VII -

Jan 4, 2006

5:25 am

29638 Re: On Karma Yoga: VI -

Jan 2, 2006

8:06 pm

29632 On Karma Yoga: VI -

Jan 2, 2006

5:53 am

 

29609 Re: On Karma Yoga: V -

Dec 30, 2005

7:59 pm

29605 On Karma Yoga: V -

Dec 30, 2005

6:09 am

29595 On Karma Yoga: Part IV -

Dec 28, 2005

8:55 pm

29576 Karma yoga Part III -

Dec 26, 2005

8:08 pm

29549 Karma yoga Part II

 

Dec 24, 2005

5:37 am

29511 On Karma yoga - part I