Fw: Sivananda Daily Reading for 16 April about FREE WILL

[Guest guest]

praNAms

Hare Krishna

 

Incidentally, today, I have received the below mail from Divine Life

Society....I would like to see Sri Dennis prabhuji's comments on this.

 

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

 

// quote //

 

 

 

 

 

 

SIVANANDA DAILY READING FOR 16 APRIL

YOU HAVE FREE WILL

 

Some ignorant people say: " Karma does everything. It is all destiny.

If I am destined by my karma to be like this or like that, why then

should I exert? It is my destiny only. " This is fatalism. This will

bring inertia, stagnation and misery. This is perfect

misunderstanding of the laws of karma. This is a fallacious argument.

An intelligent man will certainly not put such a question. You have

made your own destiny from within by your thoughts and actions. You

have a free will to choose now. You have freedom in action. A rogue

is not an eternal rogue. Put him in the company of a saint. He will

change in no time. He will think and act now in a different way and

will change his destiny. He will become saintly in character. Dacoit

Ratnagar was changed into Sage Valmiki by the current of Rishi

Narada. Jagai and Madai, two rogues of the first order, were changed

by the current of Nityananda, disciple of Lord Gouranga. You will

have to desire, to think, and act. You can change karma in any way

you like. You can become a yogi or jnani by right desire, by right

thinking and by right action. You can attain the position of Indra or

Brahma by good karma. Man is not a helpless being. He has free will

of his own.

 

Man has power to choose between the alternatives which fate brings

before him. In choosing between them he may either follow his

tendencies produced by his past actions or struggle against them. The

will of man is ever free. The arguments which are advanced by

determinists in saying that human will is determined are not sound

and tenable; they fall to the ground.

 

Dear friends! Man is the master of his destiny. Wake up now from the

deep slumber of ignorance. Never become a fatalist. Think rightly,

Act rightly. Lead a virtuous life. Never hurt the feelings of others.

Mould your character. Purify your mind. Concentrate. Thou art nitya

mukta purusa (ever free spirit). Tat Twam Asi - Thou art That.

 

The samskaras (habit-patterns) of virtuous actions are imbedded in

the citta. They are also indestructible. They are real, valuable

assets for you. They will prevent you from doing wrong actions. They

will push you on to the goal. Selfless works will prepare the ground

of antahkarana (the psyche) for the reception of the seed of jnana.

The path of karma yoga eventually leads to the attainment of infinite

bliss of the self.

// unquote//

 

 

.

 

 

 

,___

[Guest guest]

-Some important questions arise from the posting

 

Extract

Quote

Some ignorant people say: " Karma does everything. It is all

destiny.

> If I am destined by my karma to be like this or like that, why

then

> Should I exert? It is my destiny only. " This is fatalism "

Unquote

 

Ignorant men not exposed to serious spiritual seeking do this

argument. The main question in spiritual circles like'ADVAITIN' group

is whether the so-called free will is really free will? Or only an

apparent one. In common parlance nobody disputes one's freedom for

action but do we have real freedom? Actions are preceded by thoughts.

Do we have control over what thoughts you get or are they influenced

by your DNA-the environment you were brought up, the conditioning you

are subjected to like listening, hearing reading seeing etc. If these

influence ones thoughts what is the scope of one's freedom? The crux

is does one get thoughts or whether a thought is a reaction of the

brain to some impulse it received. How one reacts to a thought is not

definitely uniform in the case of all persons and it depends on the

conditioning one has.

 

As sri sadananda rightly puts the whole problem lies in believing

that there is an individual doer. Many enlightened declared that

there is no individual doer. So long as one believes that he is the

doer it is obvious that he cannot pass responsibility anywhere.

 

IT is common that all of us do our actions with absolute free will

within the moral and legal framework. The crux is nobody has control

over the results of actions Why similar actions by two result in two

different ways –no explanation

 

100% belief that there is no individual doer, in spite of apparent

freedom, may result in the following

 

 

Let us see the advantages of this belief. If there is any apparent

unpleasant situation one is facing from past actions – belief that he

was the doer – makes one unhappy for past actions. On the other hand

if some good turned out from past actions –belief that he was the

doer- make one feel pride and ego builds. Contrarily if one really

believes that there was no individual doer and what was free action

was not really free action but prompted by a Higher force (it may not

be correct to allude to it as just prarabda as in that past action

also there was no individual doer) – neither unhappiness nor pride in

both the situations mentioned above. It does not stop there. One will

not hate others for wrong actions and tolerance increases. Probably

such a stand made Christ comment `They know not what they are doing'

Such a stand gives us strength to accept whatever result comes out of

our actions. Is it not surrender?

 

Ramana Sarma

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-- In advaitin , Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr wrote:

>

>

> praNAms

> Hare Krishna

>

> Incidentally, today, I have received the below mail from Divine Life

> Society....I would like to see Sri Dennis prabhuji's comments on

this.

>

> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

>

> // quote //

>

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

>

 

> SIVANANDA DAILY READING FOR 16

APRIL

> YOU HAVE FREE

WILL

>

 

> Some ignorant people say: " Karma does everything. It is all

destiny.

> If I am destined by my karma to be like this or like that, why

then

> should I exert? It is my destiny only. " This is fatalism. This

will

> bring inertia, stagnation and misery. This is

perfect

> misunderstanding of the laws of karma. This is a fallacious

argument.

> An intelligent man will certainly not put such a question. You

have

> made your own destiny from within by your thoughts and actions.

You

> have a free will to choose now. You have freedom in action. A

rogue

> is not an eternal rogue. Put him in the company of a saint. He

will

> change in no time. He will think and act now in a different way

and

> will change his destiny. He will become saintly in character.

Dacoit

> Ratnagar was changed into Sage Valmiki by the current of

Rishi

> Narada. Jagai and Madai, two rogues of the first order, were

changed

> by the current of Nityananda, disciple of Lord Gouranga. You

will

> have to desire, to think, and act. You can change karma in any

way

> you like. You can become a yogi or jnani by right desire, by

right

> thinking and by right action. You can attain the position of Indra

or

> Brahma by good karma. Man is not a helpless being. He has free

will

> of his

own.

 

>

 

> Man has power to choose between the alternatives which fate

brings

> before him. In choosing between them he may either follow

his

> tendencies produced by his past actions or struggle against them.

The

> will of man is ever free. The arguments which are advanced

by

> determinists in saying that human will is determined are not

sound

> and tenable; they fall to the

ground.

>

 

> Dear friends! Man is the master of his destiny. Wake up now from

the

> deep slumber of ignorance. Never become a fatalist. Think

rightly,

> Act rightly. Lead a virtuous life. Never hurt the feelings of

others.

> Mould your character. Purify your mind. Concentrate. Thou art

nitya

> mukta purusa (ever free spirit). Tat Twam Asi - Thou art

That.

>

 

> The samskaras (habit-patterns) of virtuous actions are imbedded

in

> the citta. They are also indestructible. They are real,

valuable

> assets for you. They will prevent you from doing wrong actions.

They

> will push you on to the goal. Selfless works will prepare the

ground

> of antahkarana (the psyche) for the reception of the seed of

jnana.

> The path of karma yoga eventually leads to the attainment of

infinite

> bliss of the

self.

> //

unquote//

 

>

 

>

 

> .

 

>

 

>

>

> ,___

>

[Guest guest]

Hello,

 

The main question in spiritual circles like'ADVAITIN'

group

is whether the so-called free will is really free

will? Or only an

apparent one. In common parlance nobody disputes one's

freedom for

action but do we have real freedom?

 

This is a constantly recurring question for me. I

suspect that free will comes and goes and that I don't

have nearly the degree of free will that I believe I

have! The most nearly truthful thing that I can say at

this point is that I have some degree of free will but

certainly not complete free will! Free will/karma seem

to be a pair of opposites and maybe neither makes

sense in the absence of the other? Maybe the workable

answer lies somewhere in the middle between free

will//karma?

 

If we had no free will whatsoever, then this debate

couldn't even have arisen. If there is no karma

whatsoever then maybe this debate wouldn't have

arisen!...I don't know, opinions and thought of one

guy!

 

 

 

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____

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[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

In this video clip from a satsang of Gururaj Ananda Yogi, he addresses the

point of free will within the question he is made about the feeling of life

as being problematic.

 

I think some will enjoy listening to it.

 

 

Raman

 

 

On 15/4/08 07:49, " Steve Stoker " <otnac6 wrote:

 

>

>

>

> Hello,

>

> The main question in spiritual circles like'ADVAITIN'

> group

> is whether the so-called free will is really free

> will? Or only an

> apparent one. In common parlance nobody disputes one's

> freedom for

> action but do we have real freedom?

>

> This is a constantly recurring question for me. I

> suspect that free will comes and goes and that I don't

> have nearly the degree of free will that I believe I

> have! The most nearly truthful thing that I can say at

> this point is that I have some degree of free will but

> certainly not complete free will! Free will/karma seem

> to be a pair of opposites and maybe neither makes

> sense in the absence of the other? Maybe the workable

> answer lies somewhere in the middle between free

> will//karma?

>

> If we had no free will whatsoever, then this debate

> couldn't even have arisen. If there is no karma

> whatsoever then maybe this debate wouldn't have

> arisen!...I don't know, opinions and thought of one

> guy!

>

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> The main question in spiritual circles like'ADVAITIN' group

> is whether the so-called free will is really free will?

 

May be the question itself is not correct.

 

The question confounds us as we are intuitively grounded to the

principle of excluded middle. Mr. Aristotle served our needs

diligently for last two thousand years (and continues to do so even

now for our day to day functioning). However, his binary logic was

trancended by Godel just as Newton was transecnded by Eienstein.

Today, neither philosophers nor physicists consider binary logic an

adequate tool to probe the finer mysteries of nature.

 

We do not know if the question of free will is really beyond

Aristotelian logic, but I would not be surprised if it comes out to be

so.

 

- praNAm