Fear arises from a second entity

[Guest guest]

In bRihadAraNyaka up. I. iv. 2 there is the famous statement: dvitIyAd vai bhayam bhavati—Fear indeed arises from a second entity.

In reality there is only brahman. It is avidya that projects multiplicity and creates the appearance of different entities. It is only when a person sees others as different from himself that fear, etc., arise. In this upanishadic statement the term 'fear' is representative of all emotions such as desire, attachment, aversion, anger, jealousy, greed, etc. None of these can arise when a person sees no other being different from himself.

When a person realizes that the whole world is nothing but brahman, he does not see any entity different from himself. Then no cause for fear or any of the other emotions mentioned above exists. This is the meaning of this mantra- dvitIyAd vai bhayam bhavati.. A jnAni does not see anything, living or non-living, different from himself. So he has no feelings such as fear, aversion, attachment, etc., towards any other creature, whether human being or wild animal or reptiles such as cobras, etc. This is what is described in the upanishads as 'abhayam', fearlessness.

br.up. IV. iv..25 says: brahman is indeed abhayam, free from fear. He who knows it as his own Self becomes the fearless brahman.

While commenting on this mantra, Shri Shankara describes the different ways by which different persons attain enlightenment. He says: ----

A person may be born with a pure body and organs as a result of merits acquired in past births. Such a person may well attain enlightenment without any teacher in the present birth.

Another person may attain enlightenment through tapas as stated in the taitt. up. III. i.1.. Here tapas has been defined as 'concentration of the mind and the senses'. By concentrated reflection vAruNi negated the five sheaths (koshas) one by one and realized the Self.

Sometimes implicit faith in the teacher, who is himself a realized soul, is the cause of enlightenment. Here Shri Shankara quotes the statement, "He only knows who has a teacher" (Ch. 6.14.2) and some other upanishadic statements.

In br. up. I. iv. 2 the word 'dvitIya' has been used in the sense of ' a second entity'. In the very next section, I. iv. 3, the very same word 'dvitIya' has been used in the sense of 'wife'. Obviously we cannot apply this meaning to the sentence 'dvitIyad vai bhayam bhavati' in I. iv. 2 and interpret it as ' Fear indeed arises from a wife'! This shows the need for keeping in mind the context when interpreting the words of the upanishads and the bhAshya.

S.N.Sastri

[Guest guest]

Obviously we cannot apply this meaning to the sentence 'dvitIyad vai bhayam

bhavati' in I. iv. 2 and interpret it as ' Fear indeed arises from a wife'!

 

 

praNAms Sri Sastri prabhuji

 

 

Hare Krishna

 

 

Just on the lighter note.....

 

 

Though contextually this interpretation is not good...practically this

interpretation (i.e. Fear indeed arises from a wife) holds true in every

walks of life of a married man is it not :-)) I hope no saMsAri would dare

to reject this interpretation outrightly...That is the reason why, we pray

....saMsAra ghOra, gahana jagadeesha raksha :-))

 

 

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

 

 

bhaskar

[Guest guest]

Dear Advaitins

 

Hari Om

 

I fully agree with Pujaya Sastri as regards the word used for 'Wife'. For transaction purpose one may fear and this is for agyani like me. Not for Gyani. In order to know more about the Agyani why he/she fears because of duality. Many time wife also fears husband. If the fear is converted to respect that the attitude changes and we get in to the spirtuality. Dwaita bhavam brings fear, anxiety etc. Advaita anubuti removes fear, anxiety and we start seeing in everything the Brahman and accept the same & drops the doership/ownership/enjoyership, Once again Namaskarams to Pujya Sastriji for enlightening the student like me on the implication on Upanishadic teachings.

 

In His Seva.

 

Kalyan

 

-

Bhaskar YR

advaitin

Thursday, June 12, 2008 6:54 AM

Re: Fear arises from a second entity

 

 

Obviously we cannot apply this meaning to the sentence 'dvitIyad vai bhayambhavati' in I. iv. 2 and interpret it as ' Fear indeed arises from a wife'!praNAms Sri Sastri prabhujiHare KrishnaJust on the lighter note.....Though contextually this interpretation is not good...practically thisinterpretation (i.e. Fear indeed arises from a wife) holds true in everywalks of life of a married man is it not :-)) I hope no saMsAri would dareto reject this interpretation outrightly...That is the reason why, we pray...saMsAra ghOra, gahana jagadeesha raksha :-))Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!bhaskar

[Guest guest]

Dear List members,

After reading about wife and husband being second entity and having fearing feeling between them, I am reminded of a beautiful "Chatu Shloka" in Sanskrit which reads as follows:

yasya ShashtI chaturthI cha vihasya cha vihAya cha

yasyAham cha dvitIyAsyAt dvitIyA syAmaham katham?

 

How can I become wife (DvitIyA) of a Pundit who says that vihasya is in ShashtI vibhakti, vihAya is chaturthI and Aham is dvitIya Vibhakti?

 

This is a case of a daughter of a Pundit examining the boy before her marrige to him, who had learnt the vibhakti Pratyas of Rama shabda only. She asks the vibhakti of Vihasya and vihAya which are actually Avyayas which do not change their forms(Indeclinables) at all. The boy replies they are in Shasti and Chaturthi Vibhakti. The daughter of Pundit asks the vibhakti of Aham. The proposed boy replies it is in Dvitiya Vibhakti.

 

Then the intelligent daughter tells the above Chatu Shloka to her father.

Did you enjoy this?

Best Regards and wishes

UH Subramanya

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

nkalyan

advaitin

Thursday, June 12, 2008 4:26 PM

Re: Fear arises from a second entity

 

 

 

Dear Advaitins

 

Hari Om

 

I fully agree with Pujaya Sastri as regards the word used for 'Wife'. For transaction purpose one may fear and this is for agyani like me. Not for Gyani. In order to know more about the Agyani why he/she fears because of duality. Many time wife also fears husband. If the fear is converted to respect that the attitude changes and we get in to the spirtuality. Dwaita bhavam brings fear, anxiety etc. Advaita anubuti removes fear, anxiety and we start seeing in everything the Brahman and accept the same & drops the doership/ownership/enjoyership, Once again Namaskarams to Pujya Sastriji for enlightening the student like me on the implication on Upanishadic teachings.

 

In His Seva.

 

Kalyan

 

-

Bhaskar YR

advaitin

Thursday, June 12, 2008 6:54 AM

Re: Fear arises from a second entity

 

 

Obviously we cannot apply this meaning to the sentence 'dvitIyad vai bhayambhavati' in I. iv. 2 and interpret it as ' Fear indeed arises from a wife'!praNAms Sri Sastri prabhujiHare KrishnaJust on the lighter note.....Though contextually this interpretation is not good...practically thisinterpretation (i.e. Fear indeed arises from a wife) holds true in everywalks of life of a married man is it not :-)) I hope no saMsAri would dareto reject this interpretation outrightly...That is the reason why, we pray...saMsAra ghOra, gahana jagadeesha raksha :-))Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!bhaskar

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " subramanya.uh " <subramanya.uh

wrote:

>

> Dear List members,

> After reading about wife and husband being second entity and having

fearing feeling between them, I am reminded of a beautiful " Chatu

Shloka " in Sanskrit which reads as follows:

> yasya ShashtI chaturthI cha vihasya cha vihAya cha

> yasyAham cha dvitIyAsyAt dvitIyA syAmaham katham?

>

> Best Regards and wishes

> UH Subramanya

 

Dear Shri Subramanya,

This shloka was in my mind when I sent my post.It is very interesting.

Best wishes,

S.N.Sastri

[Guest guest]

praNAm all,

 

Hari Om, Subramanyaji,

 

> advaitin , " subramanya.uh " <subramanya.uh

> wrote:

 

>> yasya ShashtI chaturthI cha vihasya cha vihAya cha

>> yasyAham cha dvitIyAsyAt dvitIyA syAmaham katham

 

Interestingly, the thread as gone as a pun on the initial mail of

Sastriji. May I also add some humour from your referring the wonderful

shloka? Here goes: perhaps the best way to explain brahman to a

grammarian would be to explain It as an avyaya too, since That too

doesn't decline, being changeless.

 

My DukRMkarNe,

--praveen

/* Through what should one know That owing to which all this is known!

--Br.Up. 4.5.15 */

[Guest guest]

Is a Jnani's state of fearlessness correlated to his/her physical

well-being? Typically most jnanis we hear about are established in

Brahmacharya and naturally observe a regulated life. Such restrictions

regarding the state of the body can be disturbed, say by force. Will

the fearlessness be lost in some sense?

 

We do have the acharya's own example of taking up the body of the king

etc. But is this accepted as standard for jnanis, that no matter what

the condition of body or mind, they will still not lose sight of the

Truth? Again, if the mind is linked to the body, then it is liable to

external disturbance: does that preclude fear for jnani, or is the

fearlessness of jnani something different from normal fear, that even

when mind fears, there is awareness of truth?

 

thollmelukaalkizhu

 

 

Sri Bhaskarji, if dvaita is bad and wife is dvaita and causing fear,

why get married? Apparently fear (or delusion) alone drives one to

marriage as well:-) [unless one is a true " do because the Shastra says

so " type]

 

 

advaitin , " S.N. Sastri " <sn.sastri wrote:

>

> In bRihadAraNyaka up. I. iv. 2 there is the famous statement:

dvitIyAd vai

> bhayam bhavati—Fear indeed arises from a second entity.

>

> In reality there is only brahman. It is avidya that projects

multiplicity

> and creates the appearance of different entities. It is only when a

person

> sees others as different from himself that fear, etc., arise. In this

> upanishadic statement the term 'fear' is representative of all

emotions such

> as desire, attachment, aversion, anger, jealousy, greed, etc. None

of these

> can arise when a person sees no other being different from himself.

> When a person realizes that the whole world is nothing but brahman,

he does

> not see any entity different from himself. Then no cause for fear or

any of

> the other emotions mentioned above exists. This is the meaning of this

> mantra- dvitIyAd vai bhayam bhavati.. A jnAni does not see anything,

living

> or non-living, different from himself. So he has no feelings such as

fear,

> aversion, attachment, etc., towards any other creature, whether

human being

> or wild animal or reptiles such as cobras, etc. This is what is

described in

> the upanishads as 'abhayam', fearlessness.

>

> br.up. IV. iv..25 says: brahman is indeed abhayam, free from fear.

He who

> knows it as his own Self becomes the fearless brahman.

>

> While commenting on this mantra, Shri Shankara describes the

different ways

> by which different persons attain enlightenment. He says: ----

> A person may be born with a pure body and organs as a result of merits

> acquired in past births. Such a person may well attain enlightenment

> without any teacher in the present birth.

> Another person may attain enlightenment through tapas as stated in the

> taitt. up. III. i.1.. Here tapas has been defined as 'concentration

of the

> mind and the senses'. By concentrated reflection vAruNi negated the five

> sheaths (koshas) one by one and realized the Self.

> Sometimes implicit faith in the teacher, who is himself a realized

soul, is

> the cause of enlightenment. Here Shri Shankara quotes the statement, " He

> only knows who has a teacher " (Ch. 6.14.2) and some other upanishadic

> statements.

>

> In br. up. I. iv. 2 the word 'dvitIya' has been used in the sense of ' a

> second entity'. In the very next section, I. iv. 3, the very same word

> 'dvitIya' has been used in the sense of 'wife'. Obviously we cannot

apply

> this meaning to the sentence 'dvitIyad vai bhayam bhavati' in I. iv.

2 and

> interpret it as ' Fear indeed arises from a wife'! This shows the

need for

> keeping in mind the context when interpreting the words of the

upanishads

> and the bhAshya.

> S.N.Sastri

>

[Guest guest]

Also, perhaps a good way to test our rooting in the fearlessness of

Advaita is to wear the dresses and sacred marks as our grandfathers,

in the streets of wherever you are. Can we revive our external customs

as a practical statement of our philosophical fearlessness? I

challenge anyone to do it first, everyday!! :-)

 

thollmelukaalkizhu

 

 

advaitin , " putranm " <putranm wrote:

>

> Is a Jnani's state of fearlessness correlated to his/her physical

> well-being? Typically most jnanis we hear about are established in

> Brahmacharya and naturally observe a regulated life. Such restrictions

> regarding the state of the body can be disturbed, say by force. Will

> the fearlessness be lost in some sense?

>

> We do have the acharya's own example of taking up the body of the king

> etc. But is this accepted as standard for jnanis, that no matter what

> the condition of body or mind, they will still not lose sight of the

> Truth? Again, if the mind is linked to the body, then it is liable to

> external disturbance: does that preclude fear for jnani, or is the

> fearlessness of jnani something different from normal fear, that even

> when mind fears, there is awareness of truth?

>

> thollmelukaalkizhu

>

>

> Sri Bhaskarji, if dvaita is bad and wife is dvaita and causing fear,

> why get married? Apparently fear (or delusion) alone drives one to

> marriage as well:-) [unless one is a true " do because the Shastra says

> so " type]

>

>

> advaitin , " S.N. Sastri " <sn.sastri@> wrote:

> >

> > In bRihadAraNyaka up. I. iv. 2 there is the famous statement:

> dvitIyAd vai

> > bhayam bhavati—Fear indeed arises from a second entity.

> >

> > In reality there is only brahman. It is avidya that projects

> multiplicity

> > and creates the appearance of different entities. It is only when a

> person

> > sees others as different from himself that fear, etc., arise. In this

> > upanishadic statement the term 'fear' is representative of all

> emotions such

> > as desire, attachment, aversion, anger, jealousy, greed, etc. None

> of these

> > can arise when a person sees no other being different from himself.

> > When a person realizes that the whole world is nothing but brahman,

> he does

> > not see any entity different from himself. Then no cause for fear or

> any of

> > the other emotions mentioned above exists. This is the meaning of this

> > mantra- dvitIyAd vai bhayam bhavati.. A jnAni does not see anything,

> living

> > or non-living, different from himself. So he has no feelings such as

> fear,

> > aversion, attachment, etc., towards any other creature, whether

> human being

> > or wild animal or reptiles such as cobras, etc. This is what is

> described in

> > the upanishads as 'abhayam', fearlessness.

> >

> > br.up. IV. iv..25 says: brahman is indeed abhayam, free from fear.

> He who

> > knows it as his own Self becomes the fearless brahman.

> >

> > While commenting on this mantra, Shri Shankara describes the

> different ways

> > by which different persons attain enlightenment. He says: ----

> > A person may be born with a pure body and organs as a result of merits

> > acquired in past births. Such a person may well attain enlightenment

> > without any teacher in the present birth.

> > Another person may attain enlightenment through tapas as stated in the

> > taitt. up. III. i.1.. Here tapas has been defined as 'concentration

> of the

> > mind and the senses'. By concentrated reflection vAruNi negated

the five

> > sheaths (koshas) one by one and realized the Self.

> > Sometimes implicit faith in the teacher, who is himself a realized

> soul, is

> > the cause of enlightenment. Here Shri Shankara quotes the

statement, " He

> > only knows who has a teacher " (Ch. 6.14.2) and some other upanishadic

> > statements.

> >

> > In br. up. I. iv. 2 the word 'dvitIya' has been used in the sense

of ' a

> > second entity'. In the very next section, I. iv. 3, the very same word

> > 'dvitIya' has been used in the sense of 'wife'. Obviously we cannot

> apply

> > this meaning to the sentence 'dvitIyad vai bhayam bhavati' in I. iv.

> 2 and

> > interpret it as ' Fear indeed arises from a wife'! This shows the

> need for

> > keeping in mind the context when interpreting the words of the

> upanishads

> > and the bhAshya.

> > S.N.Sastri

> >

>

[Guest guest]

hare krishna namaskaramsBhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr wrote:Just on the lighter note.....Though contextually this interpretation is not good...practically this interpretation (i.e. Fear indeed arises from a wife) holds true in everywalks of life of a married man is it not :-)) I hope no saMsAri would dare to reject this interpretation outrightly...That is the reason why, we pray...saMsAra ghOra, gahana jagadeesha raksha :-))even on a lighter note this is totally uncalled for as not all wives are being feared in the world. there are exceptions always. i do not know how many pray as you have stated for samsara does'nt just mean wife but the very life of being born in this world due to desires and the resultant karmapalas. i hope you are married and have a wife whom you don't

fear.baskaran BASKARAN.C.S

Unlimited freedom, unlimited storage. Get it now

[Guest guest]

even on a lighter note this is totally uncalled for as not all wives are

being feared in the world. there are exceptions always. i do not know how

many pray as you have stated for samsara does'nt just mean wife but the

very life of being born in this world due to desires and the resultant

karmapalas. i hope you are married and have a wife whom you don't fear.

 

baskaran

 

 

 

 

 

praNAms Sri Baskaran prabhuji

 

 

Hare Krishna

 

 

When it is clearly said that it is on the lighter note..there is no need

for any dichotomy of those words...just enjoy the intended hilarity behind

it...As you know, I am not talking about *all wives* here to pass the

judgement, ofcourse how can I know about all other wives :-))...I am really

happy that you are finding your *life* with your wife...May god bless you &

your family...But if we think the saMsAra is full of bed of roses &

enthralment, one fine day we will have it!!....dont think those who prayed

god to elevate themselves from saMsAra bandhana are pessimists..They know

the reality behind the charming drama of this saMsAra & asserted that

saMsAra is ghOra & gahana, it is like a pAsha (bondage) & kUpa (well)

etc....By the way, who do you think prayed like that?? it is a prayer

taken from jagadeesha stotra attributed to Sri Shankara bhagavatpAda.

 

 

Prabhuji, ofcourse I have a beautiful (atleast for me ) wife & kids as well

:-)) and normally I dont fear my wife...but sometime I do, to maintain the

serenity of sAmsArik atmosphere. I envy the absolute fearless husband

(though very few on this earth :-)) & I think he is not a normal human

being :-))

 

 

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!

 

 

bhaskar

 

 

PS : I regret to note that my one passing humorous remark has changed the

whole direction of this thread...My sincere apologies to you Sri Sastri

prabhuji...This is my last post on this thread.

[Guest guest]

praNAms Shri Sastri-ji,

 

advaitin , " S.N. Sastri " <sn.sastri wrote:

>

> In bRihadAraNyaka up. I. iv. 2 there is the famous statement: dvitIyAd vai

> bhayam bhavati—Fear indeed arises from a second entity.

>

> In reality there is only brahman. It is avidya that projects multiplicity

> and creates the appearance of different entities. It is only when a person

> sees others as different from himself that fear, etc., arise. In this

> upanishadic statement the term 'fear' is representative of all emotions such

> as desire, attachment, aversion, anger, jealousy, greed, etc. None of these

> can arise when a person sees no other being different from himself.

> When a person realizes that the whole world is nothing but brahman, he does

> not see any entity different from himself. Then no cause for fear or any of

> the other emotions mentioned above exists. This is the meaning of this

> mantra- dvitIyAd vai bhayam bhavati.. A jnAni does not see anything, living

> or non-living, different from himself. So he has no feelings such as fear,

> aversion, attachment, etc., towards any other creature, whether human being

> or wild animal or reptiles such as cobras, etc. This is what is described in

> the upanishads as 'abhayam', fearlessness.

>

> br.up. IV. iv..25 says: brahman is indeed abhayam, free from fear. He who

> knows it as his own Self becomes the fearless brahman.

 

It seems this is the reason why Lord Krishna begins chapter 16 of

Bhagavad Gita with the one quality that takes one towards the guNAtiita

stage: abhayam. In that chapter, Lord Krishna enumerates 26 divine

qualities that distinguish the sattvik divine with the rAjasik asura and

tAmasik rAkshasa.

 

Though the rest of the divine-qualities enumerated may either be thought

of as the ones that take the seeker till the doorstep of (guNAtiita)

brahman, *true* abhayam, is the one that takes him to the other side.

The other way of thinking of these qualities may be that, being established

in the rest of the qualities as well as the " lower abhayam " , -- if one can use

such a term -- one that is the result of, and characterized by, truly

practising svadharma (with paradharma being bhayaavahaH) will take him to

the " higher abhayam " , one where he sees nothing other than His own Self.

In this stage, He does not need to fear, as He is everywhere, at all times.

 

When talking about the fear-causing as well as fear-removing, it is pertinent

to remember the ferocious form of Narasimha that naturally lead to fear in the

hearts of all the asuras in the world (Srimad Bhagavatham 7.8.16). The point

to observe from is that, the sound that came at the time of creation of the

Lord, caused fear in the hearts of devas (SB 7.8.15), who were said

to be established in the sattva quality! Only prahlAda, who was truly

established

in the Lord, exactly as described in various chapters of the Gita, like

in Chapter 12, and hence in the guNAtiita stage, was in a equanimous stage

all the time, and hence was asked by the demi-gods to pacify the Lord after

the killing of the asura.

 

It also seems to me that this is the reason why most of the stotras,

Vishnu SahasranAmam, for example have abhayam in the phalastruti (result of

reading the stotram). Swami Vivekananda of course, spread the message of

fearlessness as the message of the Upanishads.

 

praNAms to all advaitins established in the bRihad-abhayam!

Ramakrishna

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " Ramakrishna Upadrasta " <uramakrishna

wrote:

> > In bRihadAraNyaka up. I. iv. 2 there is the famous statement: dvitIyAd vai

> > bhayam bhavati—Fear indeed arises from a second entity.

 

praNAms Advaitins,

 

It should be observed that the same statement that Shri Sastri-ji

pointed out from the Upanishad, also appears in Chapter 11 of Srimad

Bhagavatham, said to be the one of the advaitic chapters. Here is the

reference:

 

11020371 bhayaM dvitIyAbhiniveshataH syAdIshAdapetasya viparyayo.asmR^itiH

11020373 tanmAyayAto budha AbhajettaM bhaktyaikayeshaM gurudevatAtmA

11020381 avidyamAno.apyavabhAti hi dvayo dhyAturdhiyA svapnamanorathau yathA

11020383 tatkarmasa~NkalpavikalpakaM mano budho nirundhyAdabhayaM tataH syAt

 

I request the elders of the group to translate the above statements.

 

Members could also observe the genius of Bhagavan Vyasa, who repeated

the same statement from the Upanishad in Bhagavatham (a smriti text).

 

Humble praNAms to all Advaitins

Ramakrishna

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " Ramakrishna Upadrasta "

<uramakrishna wrote:

 

> It should be observed that the same statement that Shri Sastri-ji

> pointed out from the Upanishad, also appears in Chapter 11 of

Srimad

> Bhagavatham, said to be the one of the advaitic chapters. Here is

the

> reference:

>

> 11020371 bhayaM dvitIyAbhiniveshataH syAdIshAdapetasya

viparyayo.asmR^itiH

> 11020373 tanmAyayAto budha AbhajettaM bhaktyaikayeshaM

gurudevatAtmA

> 11020381 avidyamAno.apyavabhAti hi dvayo dhyAturdhiyA

svapnamanorathau yathA

> 11020383 tatkarmasa~NkalpavikalpakaM mano budho nirundhyAdabhayaM

tataH syAt

>

> I request the elders of the group to translate the above

statements.

> Humble praNAms to all Advaitins

> Ramakrishna

 

As has been rightly pointed out by Shri Ramakrishna, more or less

the same idea is contained in the shlokas from Srimad Bhagavatam

quoted by him. Here, as is to be expected, the bhakti aspect is

stressed. The translation of these shlokas is given below:

11.2.37:

He who has turned away from the Lord forgets (his real self) because

of the Lord's mAyA, and believes that some thing else (the body) is

his self. He is then in the grip of fear caused by his

identification with the body. Therefore, a wise man should worship

the Lord with unswerving devotion, looking upon his guru as God as

well as his own self.

11.2.38:

Though duality has no existence, it does appear to exist as in dream

or in imagination, as long as one's mind dwells on it. Therefore a

wise man should control his mind which is the source of ideations

and doubts. Fearlessness will then follow.

S.N.Sastri

[Guest guest]

--- On Sat, 6/14/08, snsastri <sn.sastri wrote:

 

 

As has been rightly pointed out by Shri Ramakrishna, more or less

the same idea is contained in the shlokas from Srimad Bhagavatam

quoted by him. Here, as is to be expected, the bhakti aspect is

stressed. The translation of these shlokas is given below:

11.2.37:

He who has turned away from the Lord forgets (his real self) because

of the Lord's mAyA, and believes that some thing else (the body) is

his self. He is then in the grip of fear caused by his

identification with the body. Therefore, a wise man should worship

the Lord with unswerving devotion, looking upon his guru as God as

well as his own self.

---------------

PraNAms Shastriji and Ramakrishna -

 

Beautiful slokas - One side the sloka says - fear comes from the second - yet

that second arises because one has turned away from the Lord. Turning away from

the Lord and duality seems to be integrally related. To overcome the duality one

has to worship the teacher-god-his own self as one. The vision of the advaitic

is emphasized in spite of the apparent dualistic nature of the devotee-devoted

nature of the worship. Hence turning towards God also has to be understood as

turning to oneself. The culmination of the bhakti is the identity of the bhaktaa

and the object of bhakti with transcendence of duality. Beautiful.

 

Also in Tai. Up. there is statement that a spec of duality causes fear.

udaramantaram kurute athatasya bhayam bhavati - advaitic state alone is fearless

state as in deep sleep.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

[Guest guest]

advaitin , kuntimaddi sadananda

<kuntimaddisada wrote:

 

> PraNAms Shastriji and Ramakrishna -

>

> Beautiful slokas - One side the sloka says - fear comes from the

second - yet that second arises because one has turned away from the

Lord. Turning away from the Lord and duality seems to be integrally

related. To overcome the duality one has to worship the

teacher-god-his own self as one. The vision of the advaitic is

emphasized in spite of the apparent dualistic nature of the

devotee-devoted nature of the worship. Hence turning towards God also

has to be understood as turning to oneself. The culmination of the

bhakti is the identity of the bhaktaa and the object of bhakti with

transcendence of duality. Beautiful.

>

> Also in Tai. Up. there is statement that a spec of duality causes

fear. udaramantaram kurute athatasya bhayam bhavati - advaitic state

alone is fearless state as in deep sleep.

>

> Hari Om!

> Sadananda

 

Namaste All,

 

But how does one handle, or relate to, fear prior to

the complete gain of knowledge? Swami Dayananda

has said this, (and I have heard him say it more

than once). In fact, he seems to consider it

so important that I have twice heard him, when

teaching a very large group, have that large

group repeat back to him this statement.

 

" I welcome fear. I am not afraid of fear. "

 

I have often wondered why he feels this is

so important, and such an effective way to

deal with fear when it arises.

 

I suppose perhaps that running away from

fear, rather than facing it and welcoming

it, may just produce more fear for the mind.

 

Recently a young man came to see Swamiji.

The young man told Swamiji that he was

feeling very afraid. Swamiji then told

the young man to repeat the phrase above.

 

I then felt the temerity to ask Swamiji,

" What about other negative emotions, Swamiji?

How should we deal with them? "

 

Swamiji replied, " In the same way. "

 

I still wonder why this is so. Perhaps,

all emotions, being a product of Ishwara's

order (as is everything) should be welcomed.

Perhaps, rather than turning away from them,

which may just increase their strength,

welcoming them is also a way of seeing that they

are not 'I.'

 

'I' am present to all of them. I can also observe them.

I can welcome them as part of Ishwara's order.

They have a cause. But their effects can be

neutralized. Perhaps welcoming them is a

a way of neutralizing them. Those are my thoughts.

 

Perhaps when I have the opportunity, I will

ask my own teacher to expand upon Swamiji's

advice.

 

Pranams,

Durga

[Guest guest]

--- On Sat, 6/14/08, Durga <durgaji108 wrote:

 

 

 

" I welcome fear. I am not afraid of fear. "

 

I have often wondered why he feels this is

so important, and such an effective way to

deal with fear when it arises.

 

Durgaji - PraNAmas.

Here is my understanding.

 

Fear is of two types based on the source. There is fear that is of instinctive

origin - Animals are afraid - afraid of their security and safety. That is

purely instinctive and helps them to seek a shelter that can be protective. Most

of it is preprogrammed or one can say from Vedantic terminology - viaswaanara

who is responsible for all the physiological functions at the body level takes

in charge. Reflective actions at the body level to protect oneself from external

dangers are instinctive and governed by the Lord. Even jnaani will experience

these.

 

For human there is another dimensional fear - which is of psychological origin.

I am afraid of what is going to happen - fear of unknown - fear of -me and mine

- projection of possible states of future to present and worry about them in the

present - since ego lives by the projection of future and past into present.

 

Welcoming the fear involves - acceptance of the projected future in the present.

Acceptance removes a reaction to that possibility. I am not any more afraid of

whatever that possibility is since I am ready to accept.

 

Actually Swamiji made it short. Truly welcoming the fear requires complete

surrenderance in the present. Mind is ready to accept whatever that may happen

or could happen. That is actually involves sharaNaagati or prapaati - where I

surrender myself to His will - come what may He knows the best. That requires

Iswraarpita buddhi and prasaada buddhi - together to accept what ever that comes

hence welcoming the unknown - welcoming the fear.

 

The Serenity Prayer is essential this - Oh Lord - give me the strength to change

what I can, to accept what I cannot and wisdom to know the difference.-

 

Welcoming any negative feelings is not entertaining them but be conscious of

their presence. Once you are conscious of them, the consciousness takes over and

you get detached from those feelings and therefore no basis for their existence.

In order for me to be conscious of them to welcome them, I have to have certain

detachment. To do that only attaching myself to Iswara helps to get detached to

these baser feelings since Iswara by definition is with infinite auspicious

qualities - ananta kalyaana guNa aashraya.

 

Hari Om!

Sadananda

 

 

 

 

I suppose perhaps that running away from

fear, rather than facing it and welcoming

it, may just produce more fear for the mind.

 

Recently a young man came to see Swamiji.

The young man told Swamiji that he was

feeling very afraid. Swamiji then told

the young man to repeat the phrase above.

 

I then felt the temerity to ask Swamiji,

" What about other negative emotions, Swamiji?

How should we deal with them? "

 

Swamiji replied, " In the same way. "

 

I still wonder why this is so. Perhaps,

all emotions, being a product of Ishwara's

order (as is everything) should be welcomed.

Perhaps, rather than turning away from them,

which may just increase their strength,

welcoming them is also a way of seeing that they

are not 'I.'

 

'I' am present to all of them. I can also observe them.

I can welcome them as part of Ishwara's order.

They have a cause. But their effects can be

neutralized. Perhaps welcoming them is a

a way of neutralizing them. Those are my thoughts.

 

Perhaps when I have the opportunity, I will

ask my own teacher to expand upon Swamiji's

advice.

 

Pranams,

Durga

[Guest guest]

advaitin , kuntimaddi sadananda

<kuntimaddisada wrote:

 

>

> Welcoming the fear involves - acceptance of the projected future in

the present. Acceptance removes a reaction to that possibility. I am

not any more afraid of whatever that possibility is since I am ready

to accept.

>

> Actually Swamiji made it short. Truly welcoming the fear requires

complete surrenderance in the present. Mind is ready to accept

whatever that may happen or could happen. That is actually involves

sharaNaagati or prapaati - where I surrender myself to His will - come

what may He knows the best. That requires Iswraarpita buddhi and

prasaada buddhi - together to accept what ever that comes hence

welcoming the unknown - welcoming the fear.

>

> The Serenity Prayer is essential this - Oh Lord - give me the

strength to change what I can, to accept what I cannot and wisdom to

know the difference.-

>

> Welcoming any negative feelings is not entertaining them but be

conscious of their presence. Once you are conscious of them, the

consciousness takes over and you get detached from those feelings and

therefore no basis for their existence. In order for me to be

conscious of them to welcome them, I have to have certain detachment.

To do that only attaching myself to Iswara helps to get detached to

these baser feelings since Iswara by definition is with infinite

auspicious qualities - ananta kalyaana guNa aashraya.

>

> Hari Om!

> Sadananda

 

Thank you Sadanandaji,

 

What you have written is what I intuited to be

true, but your writing has fleshed it out

more thoroughly and beautifully.

 

Pranams,

Durga

[Guest guest]

sadananda ji ,

 

your post was such a relief : please accept my heartfelt thanks .

 

i am at present experiencing fear , which seems to be clearly

psychological : a conflict of my self with myself and a fear ,

perhaps , of what it will be to let go . while i have worked at

cleansing myself of the several complexes with which i came and

exist is a good place of awareness , this fear is new . while i

understand its origins , i feel incapable of overcoming it .

everywhere i look up , the solution seems to point towards the Lord

or a guru . as a jnana yogi , bhakti seems a bit far from my

psyche , as does ishvara . i seem to be missing some crucial link in

the chain : is the way forward to just respect the guru within ?

 

regards

 

/raji/

 

 

advaitin , kuntimaddi sadananda

<kuntimaddisada wrote:

>

>

>

>

>

> --- On Sat, 6/14/08, Durga <durgaji108 wrote:

>

>

>

> " I welcome fear. I am not afraid of fear. "

>

> I have often wondered why he feels this is

> so important, and such an effective way to

> deal with fear when it arises.

>

> Durgaji - PraNAmas.

> Here is my understanding.

>

> Fear is of two types based on the source. There is fear that is

of instinctive origin - Animals are afraid - afraid of their

security and safety. That is purely instinctive and helps them to

seek a shelter that can be protective. Most of it is preprogrammed

or one can say from Vedantic terminology - viaswaanara who is

responsible for all the physiological functions at the body level

takes in charge. Reflective actions at the body level to protect

oneself from external dangers are instinctive and governed by the

Lord. Even jnaani will experience these.

>

> For human there is another dimensional fear - which is of

psychological origin. I am afraid of what is going to happen - fear

of unknown - fear of -me and mine - projection of possible states of

future to present and worry about them in the present - since ego

lives by the projection of future and past into present.

>

> Welcoming the fear involves - acceptance of the projected future

in the present. Acceptance removes a reaction to that possibility. I

am not any more afraid of whatever that possibility is since I am

ready to accept.

>

> Actually Swamiji made it short. Truly welcoming the fear requires

complete surrenderance in the present. Mind is ready to accept

whatever that may happen or could happen. That is actually involves

sharaNaagati or prapaati - where I surrender myself to His will -

come what may He knows the best. That requires Iswraarpita buddhi

and prasaada buddhi - together to accept what ever that comes hence

welcoming the unknown - welcoming the fear.

>

> The Serenity Prayer is essential this - Oh Lord - give me the

strength to change what I can, to accept what I cannot and wisdom to

know the difference.-

>

> Welcoming any negative feelings is not entertaining them but be

conscious of their presence. Once you are conscious of them, the

consciousness takes over and you get detached from those feelings

and therefore no basis for their existence. In order for me to be

conscious of them to welcome them, I have to have certain

detachment. To do that only attaching myself to Iswara helps to get

detached to these baser feelings since Iswara by definition is with

infinite auspicious qualities - ananta kalyaana guNa aashraya.

>

> Hari Om!

> Sadananda

>

>

>

>

> I suppose perhaps that running away from

> fear, rather than facing it and welcoming

> it, may just produce more fear for the mind.

>

> Recently a young man came to see Swamiji.

> The young man told Swamiji that he was

> feeling very afraid. Swamiji then told

> the young man to repeat the phrase above.

>

> I then felt the temerity to ask Swamiji,

> " What about other negative emotions, Swamiji?

> How should we deal with them? "

>

> Swamiji replied, " In the same way. "

>

> I still wonder why this is so. Perhaps,

> all emotions, being a product of Ishwara's

> order (as is everything) should be welcomed.

> Perhaps, rather than turning away from them,

> which may just increase their strength,

> welcoming them is also a way of seeing that they

> are not 'I.'

>

> 'I' am present to all of them. I can also observe them.

> I can welcome them as part of Ishwara's order.

> They have a cause. But their effects can be

> neutralized. Perhaps welcoming them is a

> a way of neutralizing them. Those are my thoughts.

>

> Perhaps when I have the opportunity, I will

> ask my own teacher to expand upon Swamiji's

> advice.

>

> Pranams,

> Durga

>

[Guest guest]

advaitin , kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada

wrote:

> Beautiful slokas - One side the sloka says - fear comes from the second -

> yet that second arises because one has turned away from the Lord. Turning

> away from the Lord and duality seems to be integrally related.

 

praNAms Respected Advaitins,

 

Here is a related thought, presented in the spirit of a Zen Koan.

 

Disciple: Where is Lord Dakshinamurthy?

Master: He is towards your left, facing the south direction.

Only half of Him is visible to you right now.

 

Disciple: How can I completely see Lord Dakshinamurthy?

Master: When you completely turn away from the South.

 

The disciple was enlightened!

 

==

Explanation:

 

In Shiva temples, Lord Dakshinamurthy is facing south.

South mystically signifying death, and hence the world of duality.

Here, the disciple is facing the main diety, a Shiva Lingam, and hence

can see only the left part (vaama-bhaga) of the Lord Dakshinamurthy.

 

What he cannot see, when He is standing in such a position,

is the Chinmudra of the Lord, with Chinmudra signifying the

para-vidya or Self-knowledge.

 

It should also be noted that Lord Dakshinamurthy is a arthanareeshvara

(half-Shiva and half-Shakti) form. His left half is the divine mother,

whose another name is Prakriti and hence signifies the world. When

only His left half is seen, it means that currently, only the " world part "

of Lord Dakshinamurthy is seen by the Disciple.

 

==

One is also reminded of the following mantras from Ishavashya

Upanishad, with translation by Swami Nikhilananda:

 

hiraNmayena paatreNa satyasyaapihitaM mukham.h .

tattvaM puushhannapaavR^iNu satyadharmaaya dR^ishhTaye .. 15..

 

15. The door of the Truth is covered by a golden disc.

Open it, O Nourisher! Remove it so that I who have been

worshipping the Truth may behold It.

 

puushhannekarshhe yama suurya praajaapatya

vyuuha rashmiin.h samuuha tejaH .

yatte ruupaM kalyaaNatamaM tatte pashyaami

yo.asaavasau purushhaH so.ahamasmi .. 16..

 

16. O Nourisher, lone Traveller of the sky! Controller! O Sun,

Offspring of Prajapati! Gather Your rays; withdraw Your light.

I would see, through Your grace, that form of Yours which is the

fairest. I am indeed He, that Purusha, who dwells there.

 

praNAms to all Advaitins who see the Lord completely, all the time.

Ramakrishna

[Guest guest]

advaitin , " rajalakshmi13 "

<rajalakshmi.iyer wrote:

>

> i am at present experiencing fear , which seems to be clearly

> psychological : a conflict of my self with myself and a fear ,

> perhaps , of what it will be to let go . while i have worked at

> cleansing myself of the several complexes with which i came and

> exist is a good place of awareness , this fear is new . while i

> understand its origins , i feel incapable of overcoming it .

> everywhere i look up , the solution seems to point towards the Lord

> or a guru . as a jnana yogi , bhakti seems a bit far from my

> psyche , as does ishvara . i seem to be missing some crucial link in

> the chain : is the way forward to just respect the guru within ?

>

> regards

>

> /raji/

>

 

Sri Rajalakshmiji,

 

Of course, there is no telling what your fear is exactly. But Sri

Shastriji's post " Who is Dhira? " starts with

 

" The upanishads say that we do not know our real nature and so we

consider ourselves to be some thing other than what we really are. "

 

That defines the crux of the problem. We need

 

1. Knowledge of Impermanence

2. Knowledge of Permanence

 

1. I am not the body or mind.

2. I am the Atma, the Self, the Witness seeing through these upadhis.

 

1. The body/mind/world is changing and unreal, not me.

2. I am the Reality of body-mind-world, constant, eternal.

 

For 1, common sense is sufficient provided we imbibe the notion of

" unreal " properly. To get 2, we are pursuing the path.

 

When the fear comes, it at once indicates that we have identified the

self with the body. So see as the witness, etc; that the upadhis are

changing and not me.

 

For dealing with psychological fear, we have to *know* first that the

body-anchor is 'false', and second that whatever this I points to is

inherently 'True': unaffected. And That alone I am.

 

The blame for fear always falls upon our misconception; we have to

realize that and face the fear using the Knowledge 1 & 2. Don't be

afraid to be hurt as we already have studied the truths told by

Scripture; each fall and hurt makes me *learn* those truths and

realize that I cannot be hurt.

 

Avoid dependence: God is not an excuse for escape, in which case the

Bhakthi will be a cheap-medicine of self-fooling. No Guru within or

without; I am the solution.

 

[Of course, " abhyasa " .]

 

 

thollmelukaalkizhu

[Guest guest]

>No Guru within or

> without; I am the solution.

>

 

 

Meant this from the final standpoint, in the sense of that Gita sloka

: Lift the self by the self...

[Guest guest]

thank you in the last few days , i have understood this

experientially . i still keep oscillating betwee the 2 states , and

now am aware that fear occurs in only one . the hard bit is to

switch states WHILE in the grip of the impermanent one.

 

 

 

advaitin , " putranm " <putranm wrote:

>

> advaitin , " rajalakshmi13 "

> <rajalakshmi.iyer@> wrote:

> >

> > i am at present experiencing fear , which seems to be clearly

> > psychological : a conflict of my self with myself and a fear ,

> > perhaps , of what it will be to let go . while i have worked at

> > cleansing myself of the several complexes with which i came and

> > exist is a good place of awareness , this fear is new . while i

> > understand its origins , i feel incapable of overcoming it .

> > everywhere i look up , the solution seems to point towards the

Lord

> > or a guru . as a jnana yogi , bhakti seems a bit far from my

> > psyche , as does ishvara . i seem to be missing some crucial

link in

> > the chain : is the way forward to just respect the guru within ?

> >

> > regards

> >

> > /raji/

> >

>

> Sri Rajalakshmiji,

>

> Of course, there is no telling what your fear is exactly. But Sri

> Shastriji's post " Who is Dhira? " starts with

>

> " The upanishads say that we do not know our real nature and so we

> consider ourselves to be some thing other than what we really are. "

>

> That defines the crux of the problem. We need

>

> 1. Knowledge of Impermanence

> 2. Knowledge of Permanence

>

> 1. I am not the body or mind.

> 2. I am the Atma, the Self, the Witness seeing through these

upadhis.

>

> 1. The body/mind/world is changing and unreal, not me.

> 2. I am the Reality of body-mind-world, constant, eternal.

>

> For 1, common sense is sufficient provided we imbibe the notion of

> " unreal " properly. To get 2, we are pursuing the path.

>

> When the fear comes, it at once indicates that we have identified

the

> self with the body. So see as the witness, etc; that the upadhis

are

> changing and not me.

>

> For dealing with psychological fear, we have to *know* first that

the

> body-anchor is 'false', and second that whatever this I points to

is

> inherently 'True': unaffected. And That alone I am.

>

> The blame for fear always falls upon our misconception; we have to

> realize that and face the fear using the Knowledge 1 & 2. Don't be

> afraid to be hurt as we already have studied the truths told by

> Scripture; each fall and hurt makes me *learn* those truths and

> realize that I cannot be hurt.

>

> Avoid dependence: God is not an excuse for escape, in which case

the

> Bhakthi will be a cheap-medicine of self-fooling. No Guru within or

> without; I am the solution.

>

> [Of course, " abhyasa " .]

>

>

> thollmelukaalkizhu

>