Guest guest Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 " I " thought that " I " had a decent grasp on maya as the illusory/degraded projection/interpretation of brahman as mundane reality which exists withing brahman (as lila). However, Dziuban's book, Consciousness Is All, treats brahman as completely separate from " jiva reality " - as something unaware of " jiva life. " Questions could be raised based on " his " methodology, so I'll simplify: " My " question is, what is jiva's perspective regarding brahman? Does brahman, as infinite awareness, contain all that jive is and could ever be? Or is jiva non-existent, completely unknown to brahman? Apologies if these two are the same thing... But to me, in my ignorance, they seem different. Please explain. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 Shree Lema0000 - PraNams You have just exemplified a classical example of why one needs to study under a teacher who is well versed in scriptures- otherwise there is likely to have wrong notions which are more difficult to remove. My wife is dance teacher and she tells me that it is easier to teach a novice than to teach dance to the student who learned wrong posture and steps. Some times unlearning is more difficult than learning-- In fact this is the biggest problem for a vedantin since he takes himself what he is not and want to change for the better. Most of the time Vedanta tries to make him unlearn that he is not what he thought he is - and he is pure sat-chit-ananda swaruupam alone existence-consciousness- completeness as your intrinsic nature- all the time - even when thought his is 'this'. maaya is that power that because of which one appears as many. - When you go to sleep and dream a world of plurality - the maaya is that power where one mind (waker's mind) becomes or appears as many - beings and matter - including yourself as a jiiva in that dream. Who are you in the dream? you are not just one of the subjects in the dream but you are that which is the cause for the whole world of plurality and that which pervades all the beings and matter including yourself as tiny subject. That is the first aspect of maaya. This is called vikshepa - or projecting power. The second aspect of maaya is to make you forget that you are that total mind that is projecting the whole world of plurality but assume yourself to be only the tiny dream subject separate from the rest of the world of plurality. This is called aavaraNa - deluding power which makes you to think that the plurality that you see is reality. You can call maaya is liila or god's power or parameswara shakti - whatever description you are comfortable with - but truth is it is that which makes one to appear as many. similar to gold becoming many ornaments - remaining still as gold. Brahman appearing as many movable and immovable things and beings yet remaining as Brahman. Brahman does not really become many but appears to be as many and the many are taken as real due to delusion caused by maaya. Your true nature is sat-chit-ananda swaruupa - that pervades the whole world of plurality yet beyond the world of plurality - since you are pure consciousness-existence which is limitless. Hope this helps. Hari Om! Sadananda --- On Fri, 6/20/08, lema0000 <lema0000 wrote: " I " thought that " I " had a decent grasp on maya as the illusory/degraded projection/interpre tation of brahman as mundane reality which exists withing brahman (as lila). However, Dziuban's book, Consciousness Is All, treats brahman as completely separate from " jiva reality " - as something unaware of " jiva life. " Questions could be raised based on " his " methodology, so I'll simplify: " My " question is, what is jiva's perspective regarding brahman? Does brahman, as infinite awareness, contain all that jive is and could ever be? Or is jiva non-existent, completely unknown to brahman? Apologies if these two are the same thing... But to me, in my ignorance, they seem different. Please explain. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 advaitin , kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada wrote: > maaya is that power that because of which one appears as many. - When you go to sleep and dream a world of plurality - the maaya is that power where one mind (waker's mind) becomes or appears as many - beings and matter - [...] vikshepa - or projecting power. > The second aspect of maaya is to make you forget that you are that total mind that is projecting the whole world of plurality but assume yourself to be only the tiny dream subject separate from the rest of the world of plurality. This is called aavaraNa - deluding power which makes you to think that the plurality that you see is reality. Many thanks, Sri Sadananda! " I " should had known that, but was confused by other terms. I now remember reading both of those, but had misunderstood them. Your reminder makes them resonate and relieves my doubt. > You can call maaya is liila or god's power or parameswara shakti - whatever description you are comfortable with - but truth is it is that which makes one to appear as many. similar to gold becoming many ornaments - remaining still as gold. Brahman appearing as many movable and immovable things and beings yet remaining as Brahman. That is a favorite comparison, but I never connected it with what I'd just read. I feel a fool for not doing so - " I " can only suggest that I was thinking of more general matters and never remembered something that I had already learned. " I " thank " you " ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2008 Report Share Posted June 21, 2008 Namaste Shri Lema, In message #40847, Sat Jun 21, you ask: "My" question is, what is jiva's perspective regarding brahman? Does brahman, as infinite awareness, contain all that jiva is and could ever be? Or is jiva non-existent, completely unknown to brahman? One way of explaining is to distinguish the false perspective of personal jiva from the true knowing of impersonal self. It's just that self which is approached through the idea of 'brahman' or 'expansion'. Where that self is realized, its knowing is there found to be none other than its own, completely unmixed reality. That self knows nothing but itself. Whatever may appear, most certainly including, shows nothing else but that which knows. True self knows 'jiva' as itself, not as an alien object. Where self is truly found, 'jiva' is completely unknown as a differentiated object. There, it has turned out that the apparent 'knowing' of all differentiated objects is a misleading confusion. The only right knowing is the self's own true identity -- which shines alone, as its own light, and thus illuminates none other than itself. By the true knowing of plain self, each seeming 'jiva' is finally realized as self alone. There, it turns out that 'jiva' is non-existent as an object. But just this non-existence shows the true nature of each 'jiva' or personality -- as the unmixed and impartial reality of the entire world. This is, of course, completely paradoxical -- to the confusing ignorance which all we seeming 'jivas' keep on claiming to possess. Ananda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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